Thick tall grass

[JayMac89]

Let me pick your brains...

 

So this is a long story. I'm going to give you the short version for the sake of getting to the point, if anyone wants the full version I'll provide more info. 

 

Been fishing a new lake the past month and a half or so and have struggled. Caught some, but struggled. Yesterday I had a "ah-ha!" moment. They are in the thick tall grass. I let the thought dance around in my head for about an hour. Then ran out and got a whole new rod and reel set up to attack this grass. I'm impulsive. 

 

I'm obsessing. I can't stop thinking about it. I had that "ah-ha" in the parking lot so I didn't get to put it to the test. This grass goes around the entire lake, 5ft deep out to about 12-15ft deep. The grass stops a foot or two below the surface. Not sure what type of grass, but it's skinny, and had pine tree type needles. I am calling it thick but I think a better word would be dense. Iv gotten through it with light (1/4 and 3/8) jigs....I think. But the garmin also thinks I'm in 1-2ft of water at times when I'm deep. Not sure if that's a glitch or the grass being so thick and trucking the unit. Point being, I thought I was getting through it but now I'm not sure.

 

I'm wondering how you guys would attack this? Iv thrown a jig and t-rig. But light weight. I set up my new rod with 65lb braid, t-rigged a z man billy goat, with a pegged 1/2 oz weight. I wouldn't consider this punching, but maybe a tamed down version. Pitching/flipping set up? I don't care what it's called. There's alot of grass and not alot of holes or sections to target so it'll be a numbers game. Flip it in, hop hop, reel it in and repeat. Power fishing until I find them. But now I'm starting to wonder if 1/2 oz is to much? It's the depth that is throwing me. No other lake I fish goes deeper than 10ft, and I'm usually fishing in 5-6. Fishing grass 13ft tall in 15ft of water is totally foreign to me. 

 

So how would you attack thick, tall grass like this? Both lures and approach. I already know I'll hear fish the edge, holes, breaks from soft to hard bottom, yada yada.... that's all part of the long version that I left out. 

[Pat Brown]

You're going to want 1 to 2 oz flipping weight pegged and a very stout hooks for what you're trying to do but also don't sleep on a fluke weightless on a spinning rod with 15-25 lb braid over the top real slow 🤫🤫🤫

[Rockhopper]

Burn a spinnerbait over the top too 

[Bird]

If your in a boat nothing beats running a spinnerbait parallel to the thick grass line or a keitech swimbait. Imo

 

 

 

 

[gulfcaptain]

So #1, grass fishing is fun.....with the right gear. Now wirh that said you have to look at the grass and pick things out that stand out, 2 different kinds, a point of grass, a clump all by itself thicker then the rest,  greener grass clumps that look healthier then the rest.  Also sleeper here, over grass that has 2-3' of water a hybrid hunter as well as a river to sea 168.(pb on a 168 over grass that wasn't topped out and was over 11lbs). Punching works great with a 1/2oz min. 3/4-1oz is better. Also use a Tokyo rig, or a powershot. If you fished it before grass and know where rock or hard bottom is, bonus ....this time of year look for wood or something in the grass they will relate to. If you see 2 types of grass,  there is an edge. It's breaking it down and not looking at it as a whole otherwise you'll go crazy and waste a lot of time.  Remember grass uses oxygen at night and only produces oxygen during the sunny parts of the day so edges will be #1  place jn the morning.....inside and outside edge. Also look for bait popping,  fall is great on grass Flats but they normally will pull to edges and won't go into the grass unless it's bright and sunny. And dying grass avoid it, they aren't gonna be in it if there's greener patches. Hope all this helps

[JayMac89]

First off, thanks for the responses

 

So here's the deal...I wanted to avoid getting lengthy, but I'm going to. Iv tried cranks and vibrating jigs over the top. Not a spinnerbait though. Not much luck. I think i got 2 that way about a month ago. So here's the long version...

 

I fish from a kayak. Only about 3 years of taking bass fishing seriously. Seriously in a fun way, ya know. Learned a ton, a ton more still to learn. All the lakes I fish are shallow like I mentioned. I decided to fish this new lake and got hooked. Just somthing different. It's only 250-300 acres. But waaay deeper. 20ft with a few deep holes, one being about 65ft. Very different from what I'm used to. 

 

I was planning on getting electronics eventually, but fishing this lake was the thing that made me take that jump and got a garmin echomap 93sv. Mapped out a ton, marked alot of structure just off the grass line. Fished it all, no bass (good amount of other species though). Spent alot of time out of the grass. 

 

Iv also fished the grass, and iv caught them. With bottom contact lures. There's just so much grass. So I tried eliminating water. Fished the grass line. Ran cranks and vibrating jigs over top. Nothing. Looked for holes in the grass, there's really none. At least not that I can find easily. Side imaging only shows a wall of grass. So unless I cover literally every inch of grass with down imaging, it's tough. I looked for changes from soft to hard bottom. No luck. 

 

This weekend I said im going back to my roots and what I know. Weightless t-rig and a jig in water less then 10ft. Which means grass. And I caught 3 over the whole 3 day weekend. Better than nothing, but not great. That's when it hit me. Every time iv caught them, it's been in the grass. And seemingly in the thick of it (no edges or holes, just grass). Usually with some sort of drop off or structure near by. I think they are deep in this grass, in about 10-12ft of water. But again, there's just so much grass. Fishing the lighter stuff takes awhile to get to the bottom, if I'm even getting there.

 

Now logic would tell me, they are still relating to somthing in the grass. A stump or a rock. But I can't see it on electronics with how thick the grass is. So I need a way to get to the bottom quickly so I can cover water fast, then start making note of where I'm getting bites (if I get bites. Man I hope I get bites) so I can have "targets" and hopfully start eliminating some grass. 

 

I hadn't given up on moving baits over the top. But that could put my lure 10ft above them. Which in thick grass might as well be a mile (at least I'd imagine. Totally could be wrong). Plus some of this grass gets really close to the surface so not getting the lure fouled up is a challenge as well. 

 

This is why I think they are deep in there. Now I could be totally wrong. It's a theory. But that's what got me going down this road. 

 

Also, pat brown.... you actually were the guy that I stole an idea from. I was doing some searching here and found a few posts you made about using heavier weights on a t-rig. Somthing about wanting to come crashing in and get a reaction bite. So thank you sir. I think after i read a post or two from you is when I jumped in the truck and ran out to get a new rod haha. 

 

So yeah, I do appreciate all responses. And going over the top of the grass is somthing I'm not giving up on. I'm not writing those responses off. And I'm well aware that I have to get out there, trial and error with weights till I find the right one. But this problem has me locked in, can't stop thinking about it. So I figured I'd get some thoughts from you guys to hold me over till I can get out again over the weekend. 

 

 

[txchaser]

Fish that same rig from the outside edge of the grass to about 10' from the grass. 

They'll move in and out of that grass depending on mood, sunlight etc. 

Punching takes a while to get the hang of but once it happens, oh boy it's hard to go back. 

 

I agree that you may need heavier weight - if your lure is making it through the grass then you don't need more though. 

 

This winter you'll be able to map out where the grass is and see if your catches correlate to structure changes. They probably will. 

 

Also I find that fishing in the deep grass is long spells of nothing and then you might pull four big fish out of a spot the size of your kayak. 

 

[JayMac89]

13 minutes ago, gulfcaptain said:

So #1, grass fishing is fun.....with the right gear. Now wirh that said you have to look at the grass and pick things out that stand out, 2 different kinds, a point of grass, a clump all by itself thicker then the rest,  greener grass clumps that look healthier then the rest.  Also sleeper here, over grass that has 2-3' of water a hybrid hunter as well as a river to sea 168.(pb on a 168 over grass that wasn't topped out and was over 11lbs). Punching works great with a 1/2oz min. 3/4-1oz is better. Also use a Tokyo rig, or a powershot. If you fished it before grass and know where rock or hard bottom is, bonus ....this time of year look for wood or something in the grass they will relate to. If you see 2 types of grass,  there is an edge. It's breaking it down and not looking at it as a whole otherwise you'll go crazy and waste a lot of time.  Remember grass uses oxygen at night and only produces oxygen during the sunny parts of the day so edges will be #1  place jn the morning.....inside and outside edge. Also look for bait popping,  fall is great on grass Flats but they normally will pull to edges and won't go into the grass unless it's bright and sunny. And dying grass avoid it, they aren't gonna be in it if there's greener patches. Hope all this helps

Thank you very much. So here's somthing interesting. There's one corner specifically that I always see bait just outside the grass. This is where I have had the most success. Running a moving bait just outside the grass hasn't produced much for me. But iv always thought of fishing the grass edge as fishing outside the grass... not just inside the grass edge. 

 

This is why I came to you guys. Sparking ideas. I think that's where I'll start next time. Just inside the grass edge. Seems so obvious now that you mentioned inside and outside. But man, I don't think I would of thought of that on my own. 

4 minutes ago, txchaser said:

Fish that same rig from the outside edge of the grass to about 10' from the grass. 

They'll move in and out of that grass depending on mood, sunlight etc. 

Punching takes a while to get the hang of but once it happens, oh boy it's hard to go back. 

 

I agree that you may need heavier weight - if your lure is making it through the grass then you don't need more though. 

 

This winter you'll be able to map out where the grass is and see if your catches correlate to structure changes. They probably will. 

 

Also I find that fishing in the deep grass is long spells of nothing and then you might pull four big fish out of a spot the size of your kayak. 

 

Thank you as well. I was starting to think 1/2 might be too much. Probably over thinking it. It's the heaviest I got. I think I'll go get some 3/4 and 1oz... or more. so I have a variety to try

[gulfcaptain]

7 minutes ago, JayMac89 said:

 

 

This is why I came to you guys. Sparking ideas. I think that's where I'll start next time. Just inside the grass edge. Seems so obvious now that you mentioned inside and outside. But man, I don't think I would of thought of that on my own. 

Thank you as well. I was starting to think 1/2 might be too much. Probably over thinking it. It's the heaviest I got. I think I'll go get some 3/4 and 1oz... or more. so I have a variety to try

Check out Siebert outdoors.  He's on this site as well and has a great price on tungsten punch weights.

[PhishLI]

Ronkonkoma is the Rubik's cube of lakes here. Very difficult to crack and seemingly only streaky when you do. Just thousands of square feet of monolithic, tightly packed, tall, thick grass which until this year's high water came right up to the surface. It's been low for the previous 4 years. Snag it with a crank or anything else and you'll uproot a plant 15 feet long from the sandy bottom and it'll feel like you're winding in a wet, velcro, beach towel.

 

Because the water only came up this year, you'll find hard bottom from the old weed edge up to the tree-brush line all along the shore. Your best bet is fishing low light in these zones as bait fish push up right against the shoreline. LM, SM, and large schools of Walleye and Crappie come in to smash them. Find a hot zone like where the feeder creek from Lily Pond meets the big lake and you can hit the jackpot. That zone heading back to Victory ramp always has activity at night or very early morning. Once the sun's back up everything buries back into the grass. Punching those weed edges closest to the shore is a good strategy during early morning sessions.

 

There are others too. You just need to be there at the right time as schooling predators are constantly pushing the bait all around. This leads to either random catches or unreal jackpots. I've had my sickest day of fishing ever there, but also my worst arse kickings.

[JayMac89]

I always find it amazing how on point you are. Your spot on. That victory ramp side is where I was talking about where iv had the most success and see alot of bait. Iv also has success on the far end where that deep hole is. Grass line in about 7 ft of water and quickly drops to 20 plus. 

 

Iv been getting there a few hours before sun up and fishing until late morning. I tend to get them early then nothing. 

 

Iv been tempted to go back to my other normal stomping grounds, just to catch more fish. But I really enjoy the challenge of trying to figure this place out. Despite the slow fishing. 

[Catt]

@JayMac89 How Y'all Are 

 

Suggestions

#1: Do a Google search with Hydrilla, Coontail, or Milfoil in the search box. Add bassresource.com to the end.

#2: K.I.S.S.

#3: If you're getting through with a 1/4-3/8 oz, 1/2-3/4 oz would be fine. 

[gulfcaptain]

You talk about fishing the edge of the grass, do you also fish the inside edge. Please tell me you waypoint EVERY bite you have gotten fishing the grass. This way you can go when it dies and see why they hold there. If you get a bite deep in the grass are you throwing back in there? You should be....grass fishing isn't a quick break down. The 1st year I did it I was okay at it. The next year I did even better because I would go back and look at what worked and break it down more. Yr 3, I could break the grass down quickly in lakes I fished often. Sounds like you have something to look forward to doing in the off-season.  When the grass dies off get out there and run your electronics over those areas and mark hard bottom, structure, and any cover that may hold them under the grass......ditches are huge.....if you find a 1ft depression or drain.....those are gold. Good luck 

[PhishLI]

2 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

I always find it amazing how on point you are. You're spot on.

This comes down to putting in time over a long period of time and recognizing what's happening when it happens. It's easy to jump to conclusions based on random successes or failures, but over time you'll find there are real nuances you'll need to pay attention to. Having the flexibility and willingness to get out at different times also helps to build your data base. What was true today isn't often what'll be true tomorrow, especially in a place like Ronk. It's more dynamic with regard to bait movement than any other place around here. Shock survey data shows that the biggest bass on the island live there, but the impossibly dense grass fields give them so many places to hide. Finding hot bite windows where they're roaming on grass line edges or feeding up is the key, and that happens almost exclusively during darkness.

[Functional]

I'd get a decent belly weighted hook and put a horny toad on it and cast it to shore and once you hit weeds start ripping it through until you are out. Also do the same just skimming the tops of the weeds. Another plastic you could try with this is a Salad Spoon. I've had good luck with both in a very heavily weeded lake.

 

Frogs where weeds surfaced and spinnerbaits over and along the edges was always killer too. 

[Siebert Outdoors]

There are many ways to attack this.   Many have been covered above.  How I would do it is  Frog for the top.  Punching would be one of my grass jigs, T rig,  or tungsten punch rig.   Weight is dependent on getting through the matte.  Lastly fish the edges.  Spinnerbait, T rig, shallow crankbait, senko, dropshot, or a swimbait. Almost anything will work certain times.   This depends on how sparse the weeds are and how deep the fish are.  If the line is at 15 FOW thats where you fish the line. there will still be some weeds deeper than the line but it will be a significant change.   Also,  parallel the weed line  you will catch more fish.  It wont be to good for your buddy in the back of the boat though. 

[casts_by_fly]

5 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

I always find it amazing how on point you are. Your spot on. That victory ramp side is where I was talking about where iv had the most success and see alot of bait. Iv also has success on the far end where that deep hole is. Grass line in about 7 ft of water and quickly drops to 20 plus. 

 

Iv been getting there a few hours before sun up and fishing until late morning. I tend to get them early then nothing. 

 

Iv been tempted to go back to my other normal stomping grounds, just to catch more fish. But I really enjoy the challenge of trying to figure this place out. Despite the slow fishing. 

 

This sounds like a lot of the natural lakes around here also.  The water is super clear and the grass grows deep.  There is one lake around that the grass grows all the way out in ~25' of water and makes it a couple feet off the bottom there.  Anything from 20' and shallower it tops out on the surface.  On a separate note, that lake also gets big blobs of green algae which are incredibly annoying and what put me off fishing that lake.

 

Phish has you pretty well sorted and local knowledge always wins.  I also love the early mornings and late evenings into the night this time of year.  The bass are largely cruising the edges to eat.  Then when the sun comes up and they just tuck back into the grass.  Sometimes they just settled to the bottom, sometimes they bury back in.  I think light levels, predation levels, and human presence are what drive those decision for the fish.  Sounds like you're on a tougher lake with plenty of humans, so if you're not fishing on a wednesday after no one has fished it Tuesday or Monday then there's a good human presence to deal with.

 

I would still fish that grass .  Start with a 3/8 but don't be afraid of a 1/2 or more.  Beavers have been my go to for a general search bait in this scenario.  Use your fish finder to mark the edge- start out deep where there isn't any and move in shallower until you see it starting to grow up off the bottom.  Set a waypoint if you can, or make a mental note of how far you are from the surface grass.  That's where you want to start.  They will cruise or set up on the very outside edge where the grass stops at times and these are the easiest ones to catch.  They are deeper and harder to fish (you have to have a mental picture of the bottom or FFS) but they are the fish that are actually eating.  You can drag parallel to the edge to good effect.  Just watch for a thermocline.  Right now its at 15' around here and there's nothing below it. 

 

If the fish aren't there, then move shallower and pitch to every little opening or pocket you can see.  Use enough weight to get down to the bottom of it.  Its mentally exhausting work to work a grassbed like that, but sometimes that's the only way to catch them.  

[JayMac89]

Thanks a ton everyone. I love this stuff. And I'm really enjoying trying to figure this place out. So the other lake in my area, they are easy in comparison. Run along the bank and throw to a laydown or pads yada yada. It feels like stealing candy from a baby compared to this lake. But that's what makes it fun to me. Iv never really had to put this sort of mental work in before. 

 

I'm glad I posted this. It's sparked a few questions....

 

Casts by fly mentioned a thermocline. So in the early early morning before sunrise iv noticed a sort of "fuzziness" on the electronics at around the 10ft zone I belive. But later in the day if I pass over a big hole or deeper water I notice that same fuzziness but deeper. Maybe around 18ft or so. I thought it was the thermocline. But seeing it shallow then deeper confused me. Does a thermocline move that quickly with a sunrise? 

 

And iv noticed this on other lakes as well. But little bubbles in the grass. Like there's a fountain bubbler, but there's not. I figured there was some science plant reason for this. Releasing oxygen or whatever. My question is, does anyone pay any mind to these little spots? 

 

Iv definitely been a bit scatter brained fishing this lake. Plus figuring out electronics. Plus being out of my element. But you guys really have helped a ton and I feel like I have a good strategy moving forward. I almost didn't post this question, knowing alot of the lure/tactic type responses I'd get. But I'm glad I did. Lots of good information and things I didn't think of. You guys are the best. Thank you all for chiming in. 

[Flushdraw]

I too fish grass. At the beginning, I was scared of it...confused how someone would properly fish it. Now, I look for it. It scares most away down here. The few that fish it throw a frog. That's all they can do.

 

Some places have mats. If I'm fishing those areas, I'm punching with a 1.5 oz weight. I generally don't like to do this, because I'm a bank angler and it kind of sucks. Most times, I cast past the grass and bring it through. I either go weightless or with the least weight that allows me to get into the grass or into a hole. Some days, it seems heavier weights work better at getting reaction strikes.

 

I generally hop baits off the bottom. Fat Ika, Texas rigged Senko, or Pit Boss with 1/8-3/8 weight. I'll also throw a weightless Caffeine Shad in areas without much emergent grass.

 

I'm still a baby and learning. Next time you look out your car window at a horribly overgrown pond...

if you see a guy fishing there...well, that's probably me.