Last year, I decided finally to learn how to use a baitcasting reel. After some good feedback on the forum (https://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/260897-first-time-baitcast-setup-advice-pfleuger-monarch-combo/) I decided to purchase a Pfueger Monarch baitcast combo. I know the quality is meh, but it was dirt cheap and I did not want to spend a lot on a "training" combo. I spooled it up with 15# mono, used the combo a fair amount last year, and slowly got better at casting. Though, I am not as accurate as I would like to be, and also I find that I get terrible distance unless using a right at the top of the weight range for the rod (1 oz). So a couple of questions from more experienced folks.

 

1. When should I try the switch to braid? I have been using mono following the general advice to start with mono over braid. I still get backlashes, not all the time but frequently enough to worry me that I am not ready to jump into braid. It is hard to dial in the reel, so maybe the issue is more build quality than technique. When I switch to braid, I am assuming that I should use 20# or 30# minimum.

 

2. More generally, what the advantages of a higher quality baitcast reel? I know this seems like a dumb question. I suppose my thinking is: I understand that better quality will mean better components, so smoother drag, smoother retrieve, maybe higher retrieve ratio, more durability. But does quality also affect things like the controlling backlashes or casting distance? In short, is better quality more about durability or performance, and if it impacts performance, how? 

 

I have used spinning reels all my life, and have pretty good sense of what features on a spinning reel will impact performance and durability. I know what to look for and to look out for with spinning reels. But baitcasting is a whole 'nuther world!

 

 

1.  (i will probably get blasted for this).  braid is easier to pick at if you backlash.   i find braid backlashes easier for me.  but i mitigate this by staying with the higher strength stuff.  for me, the thinner stuff, say 30lb braid will loosen a bit on the spool as i fish, and then bite itself into the spool.  and then i backlash from the added resistance.  frustrating.  if i stay 50+, 65better.  the larger diameter doenst bite into itself much.

 

2.  i almost never backlash my Zillion.   i think higher quality reels manage line better for me.   it lays it down neater when i reel in, and it sends it better.  and it certainly will apply the brakes smooth and sexy like.   i will usually only backlash if something catestrophic happens,  like i hit a branch i didnt see w a lure at full speed, or the bait is so tattered it falls off the hook and gets really light.  

1- After you’re comfortable using a baitcaster with mono. It’s cheaper to have to cut mono out from a nasty backlash than braid

 

2- Can’t be explained that well, you’ll just have to make that investment and give it a try to see for yourself. They’re smoother casting, smoother drag, lighter, better construction, etc… With that said, most $99 price point baitcasters now are fantastic reels. 
 

My opinion if you’re gonna spend money and make an investment on a baitcaster setup…. Spend your money on the rod, spend less on the reel. For example, if you want to spend $300…. Get a $200 rod and a $100 reel. Like I said, $100 reels are perfectly fine. When it comes to a rod, you really get an increase in performance once you start spending more. Modern day baitcasters are so good that you really don’t NEED to spend crazy money to get a good one. But the higher end ones are definitely nice if you WANT to spend the extra money. Rods are different story; A $100 rod is not going to perform like a $200 rod, simple as that. 

Start with the source of backlash, which is bad habits brought from spinning tackle.  

Wrist-snap is rewarded in spinning cast with added distance.  

That jerk energy is completely removed by your baitcaster start-up brake, so it adds nothing, and if the jerk is too much for your brake, you backlash.  

 

Braid is completely limp, and backlash can create 180-degree loops on your spool that you can't see.  

Most of the "line dig" complaints about baitcaster using braid are actually backlash that was never found.  

 

Your first question - switch to braid when backlash is a distant memory.  

 

20- to 30-lb braid is the diameter of thread - comparable to 4-lb mono.  

Save it for your next reel, and set that reel up properly with a shallow braid spool.  

Keeping the loaded mass down makes your spool easier to start, stop, and brake - less brake needed - it all adds up to improved cast distance and reliability.  

 

mid-cast hump photo dropped from link below - 

 

The worst thing people do when trying to get into baitcasting, is getting themselves some cheap garbage with a poor braking system. I don't know how that pfueger reel is, all i know is that the brand is completely dead. I would've grabbed the cheapest Tatula with an SV spool (and the SV spool is important), and a cheap rod (in the $70-100 range), and you would be learning quicker, and cast more accurately. 30-50lb braid is also better to learn with.

44 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Start with the source of backlash, which is bad habits brought from spinning tackle.  

Wrist-snap is rewarded in spinning cast with added distance.  

That jerk energy is completely removed by your baitcaster start-up brake, so it adds nothing, and if the jerk is too much for your brake, you backlash.  

 

Braid is completely limp, and backlash can create 180-degree loops on your spool that you can't see.  

Most of the "line dig" complaints about baitcaster using braid are actually backlash that was never found.  

 

Your first question - switch to braid when backlash is a distant memory.  

 

20- to 30-lb braid is the diameter of thread - comparable to 4-lb mono.  

Save it for your next reel, and set that reel up properly with a shallow braid spool.  

Keeping the loaded mass down makes you spool easier to start, stop, and brake - less brake needed - it all adds up to improved cast distance and reliability.  

 

mid-cast hump photo dropped from link below - 

 

Super helpful stuff here. 

9 minutes ago, ABU is overpriced said:

The worst thing people do when trying to get into baitcasting, is getting themselves some cheap garbage with a poor braking system. I don't know how that pfueger reel is, all i know is that the brand is completely dead. I would've grabbed the cheapest Tatula with an SV spool (and the SV spool is important), and a cheap rod (in the $70-100 range), and you would be learning quicker, and cast more accurately. 30-50lb braid is also better to learn with.

Yeah, like I wrote, the build quality seems to be pretty meh, but again I cannot speak about baitcasting from knowledge. I have definitely seen a larked decrease in Pflueger spinning gear in recent years, but their last generation spinning stuff is quite good for the price. 

 

Also, I am up hear in Canada and stuff is way more expensive even accounting for exchange rate (and before the ridiculous sales tax). I got the combo on sale for like $100 CDN, which is super cheap. I can tell the rod is not great but it is serviceable. And so seems the reel. So it has been good enough for learning. 

 

But maybe time for an upgrade. Always an excuse to buy a new set up.

 

3 hours ago, voxborealis said:

Last year, I decided finally to learn how to use a baitcasting reel. After some good feedback on the forum (https://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/260897-first-time-baitcast-setup-advice-pfleuger-monarch-combo/) I decided to purchase a Pfueger Monarch baitcast combo. I know the quality is meh, but it was dirt cheap and I did not want to spend a lot on a "training" combo. I spooled it up with 15# mono, used the combo a fair amount last year, and slowly got better at casting. Though, I am not as accurate as I would like to be, and also I find that I get terrible distance unless using a right at the top of the weight range for the rod (1 oz). So a couple of questions from more experienced folks.

 

1. When should I try the switch to braid? I have been using mono following the general advice to start with mono over braid. I still get backlashes, not all the time but frequently enough to worry me that I am not ready to jump into braid. It is hard to dial in the reel, so maybe the issue is more build quality than technique. When I switch to braid, I am assuming that I should use 20# or 30# minimum.

 

2. More generally, what the advantages of a higher quality baitcast reel? I know this seems like a dumb question. I suppose my thinking is: I understand that better quality will mean better components, so smoother drag, smoother retrieve, maybe higher retrieve ratio, more durability. But does quality also affect things like the controlling backlashes or casting distance? In short, is better quality more about durability or performance, and if it impacts performance, how? 

 

I have used spinning reels all my life, and have pretty good sense of what features on a spinning reel will impact performance and durability. I know what to look for and to look out for with spinning reels. But baitcasting is a whole 'nuther world!

 

 

 

Start with 40# powerpro or another 4-carrier braid.  They are cheaper than 8-carrier and will be easier for a first timer with braid.  I prefer 8-carrier for my own baitcasting, but its limp and I think that it will be easier to learn with 4-carrier.  And if you have to cut one out, it's not the end of the world (unlike if you're going to cut out a spool of JDM braid or 131).

 

the distance and lure weight will be a function of how you cast and how you have the reel set up.  For a beginner, put the brakes on 75% of whatever scale they have.  Hold the rod horizontal and bit the button.  The lure should fall slow-ish and when it hits the ground the spool should spin no more than 1 rotation.  That is a lot of tension on the spool and is more than needed for most, but it will teach you how to load the rod correctly.  That will work for all lure weights- just adjust the spool tension for the weight of the lure so that it is the same fall and stop.  Once you are loading the rod correctly, then you can back off the brakes to 50% and that should open up more distance and with less force (but you still need the same smooth motion).  When you get into that groove consistently, then loosen the spool tension and little and use your thumb for a little bit of tension, especially at the end of a cast (I use my thumb to stop the spool on almost every cast).  At that point you should be able to use most any lure within the rating of the rod and get good distance (25 yards would be a decent distance benchmark for now).  As said above, snapping the wrist is a no-no- it needs to be smooth back and then forward motion.

 

higher dollar reels might have better braking systems.  They will almost certainly have more bearings and a smoother feel.  The build quality should be higher with tighter tolerances and better materials (which usually means full aluminum frames at the top end).  You might get more distance frm one, but only if you know how to cast in the first place.  Going from a Abu black max to a revo SX (keeping it within a brand) won't double your casting distance.  It might take you from 35 yards to 45 yards, but only if the reel is the limiting factor in the equation which it usually isn't.

 

 

2 hours ago, voxborealis said:

Super helpful stuff here. 

Yeah, like I wrote, the build quality seems to be pretty meh, but again I cannot speak about baitcasting from knowledge. I have definitely seen a larked decrease in Pflueger spinning gear in recent years, but their last generation spinning stuff is quite good for the price. 

 

Also, I am up hear in Canada and stuff is way more expensive even accounting for exchange rate (and before the ridiculous sales tax). I got the combo on sale for like $100 CDN, which is super cheap. I can tell the rod is not great but it is serviceable. And so seems the reel. So it has been good enough for learning. 

 

But maybe time for an upgrade. Always an excuse to buy a new set up.

 

 

I'm all about upgrades.  But make sure you're maximizing the setup you've got first.  If you can only cast a 1 oz lure well, I'd say you aren't.

2 hours ago, voxborealis said:

Super helpful stuff here. 

Yeah, like I wrote, the build quality seems to be pretty meh, but again I cannot speak about baitcasting from knowledge. I have definitely seen a larked decrease in Pflueger spinning gear in recent years, but their last generation spinning stuff is quite good for the price. 

 

Also, I am up hear in Canada and stuff is way more expensive even accounting for exchange rate (and before the ridiculous sales tax). I got the combo on sale for like $100 CDN, which is super cheap. I can tell the rod is not great but it is serviceable. And so seems the reel. So it has been good enough for learning. 

 

But maybe time for an upgrade. Always an excuse to buy a new set up.

 

I am in Canada as well. If your goal is to save as much as possible, while also getting a decent or even a great reel, it would be to buy used on ebay or elsewhere. Aliexpress has good deals on new reels as well, but i've noticed that many vendors don't ship to Canadian addresses.

2 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

I'm all about upgrades.  But make sure you're maximizing the setup you've got first.  If you can only cast a 1 oz lure well, I'd say you aren't.

 

Roger!  

Its nice to have good reel, but the reality is with casting gear that the rod is just as important.  If the blank doesnt load properly, you're not going to be satisfied with the performance of the outfit.  

10 hours ago, GetFishorDieTryin said:

Its nice to have good reel, but the reality is with casting gear that the rod is just as important.  If the blank doesnt load properly, you're not going to be satisfied with the performance of the outfit.  

I agree totally.  the two need to be ebony and ivory, PB&J, Cagney and Lacey..you get the point.  

 

rod needs to cast well, feel well, pin well, and fight well.   rod needs to ride shotgun and manage the line.  

 

to be honest, I cant tell much on high # of ball bearing reels.  I couldnt point them out on a reel.  smooth is smooth.  

you don't have to switch to braid if you don't want to.

I use 12 pound Sufix Siege Mono on my baitcasting combo and have caught everything from bass to teenage musky on it. Its strong and cast smooth. 

As it relates to casting distance, I find that distance isn’t everything. I focused more on accuracy over the past couple of years and that has led to greater distance as a result. I never even thought of the wrist snap from a spinning setup being an issue. I’ve always fished both, so I didn’t learn on one and switch to the other, so maybe I never noticed. Also, distance is a relative term. Maybe you want distance to get to some certain situation/spots, but just because you can cast farther doesn’t mean that you’ll catch more fish. 
 

As for backlashes, you’ve got to “learn” your spool and brakes. For me, I don’t do the “adjust spool tension for each different bait” technique. I adjust spool tension to zero side to side play, and then back it off ever so slightly. If, during a cast I find that I need to adjust it, I will do so then. I don’t automatically adjust every time I switch baits. That said, I also have multiple setups and some are a one-trick pony. Like my bladed jig setup. All I fish on it is jackhammers. Why? I don’t know. I like it, it works, I use it constantly (confidence bait for me), I had TW gift cards I needed to spend?  Going from mono to braid without knowing how to solve the backlash problem will just tick you off. 

I've tried a variety of reels, and my favorite is a Bass Pro Shops Pro Qualifier 2. It has dual breaks and that helps. I set the internal with 2 on, and the external I set as needed for wind conditions, usually in the middle of it's range.

 

I started back fishing 3 years ago after about 15 years break. I had to learn to baitcast all over again, not that I was great at it previously.

 

The things that really helped me to come up to speed was, practicing every day in the yard. Just use a spinnerbait or jig and practice.

 

In doing that, I started practicing with a cheap fiberglass Zebco rod and I noticed, man I was accurate. After some research it made sense. Fiberglass rods load up good and cast great, though they give up something in sensitivity, and a shorter rod is more accurate, though it gives up casting distance.

 

That Zebco rod isn't the best quality but I found a cheapo rod that mimics it, the Proficiency Retro 6'0" rod. Accurate as all get out for short work. No, it's not the best quality. Mine has been holding up for 3-4 months now and I fish it 4-5 times a week. 

 

My favorite rod, of the few I've owned and tried is an Abu Black Max 6'6" m/m. It's the right balance of everything for me.

The point is, don't just assume something is better because it costs more. Better specs on paper means absolutely nothing when compared to castability and handling characteristics.

 

So, your description sounds like your rod is way to heavy actioned, or heavy tipped.

 

Training your thumb is important. I can cast without brakes in the yard. I can cast a reel with external only brakes, or one with internal only brakes. I cast the best with the Bass Pro reel mentioned above that has both.

 

Now for me, backlashes aren't the birdsnests they used to be, rather a few loops overrun that are easily removed. Getting quicker at picking out backlashes is the second most important skill as to learning not to have them in the first place.

 

As per braid, I think mono is easier to remove a backlash from. I don't think one is easier than the other to cast.

 

I would drop to 10 pound Big Game mono, that'll up your casting distance quite a bit and allow a lighter lure to be cast.

My rarely sought after suggestions: I have tried a few reels like the ABU Black Max and the Pro Max 3 for my own self, and I have a few suggestions: The first thing I would recommend for any new reel, and especially reels that are on the less expensive side is to clean the spool bearings with alcohol and put just one or two very small drops of quality reel oil on them and then reassemble the reel. If they are properly lubed and adjusted, they are not terrible and should cast more than far enough to do the job. I don't think you would need anything more than something that falls right around the middle of the rod's recommended lure weight range, so on a MH/F rod, probably 1/2 oz to 5/8 oz should be plenty of weight to get it dialed in with.

 

Then, for beginners, I would adjust the spool tension so that with your rod horizontal and any breaking system turned off (or down), a lure that is about right in the middle of the range you'll be using, the bait should fall to the floor . . . . not super slowly, but not fast either. The spool should stop spinning when the weight hits the floor before a backlash can occur. Then dial in a little braking (how much is different for each reel, but I would say somewhere in the 30% to 50% range to start. 

 

Start slow and make very small incremental changes to spool tension or braking. With spool tension, I don't go more than just being able to see the bearing cap turn. One or two clicks on the breaking adjustments at a time. My method is to start out slightly tight, and then gradually loosen things up until it gets slightly too happy to backlash, then then go the other direction until it doesn't.

 

I don't think you need to worry about using anything other than relatively inexpensive line such as Trilene Big Game monofilament, in 8 or 10 lb test, maybe 12 lb test if it's needed to not lose baits.

 

If . . . . no, no, no. . . . WHEN you backlash, you can first try to pull line from the reel from just in front of the level wind pawl. Pull firmly, but not too hard. If that's not working, you might keep a small shepherd's hook shaped o-ring seal tool with you to try to find the deepest loop in the backlash. Pull up on it (not hard), remove the tool, then pull line away from the reel from in front of the pawl. You can use your fingers most of the time to pull the loop, but sometimes some sort of a tool can help for the difficult loops. 

 

Once the backlash is cleared, make sure there are no loose coils on the spool before you wind the line back onto the reel.

 

Also, be mindful not to get it adjusted to cast well with the wind at your back, and then turn around and cast into the wind, especially with a bait that is bulky and/or severely affected by wind such a spinnerbait.

 

At the end of your cast, your rod tip should be pointed at about the 10:00 or 10:30 position. Train your thumb to hover over the spool so it prevents the line from fluffing up as it exits the spool and it can be used to modulate the speed of the spool. 

I have a bad habit of letting my thumb off the spool during the beginning of my cast. I get the best results when I have 100% contact with the spool through the cast.

A properly adjusted centrifugal brake system, dual or not is your best friend when casting. 

 

 

 

Mike
 

Thanks for all the advice. After a massive blow up that forced me to cut off a bunch of my mono (I still don't know what happened on that one!), I decided to take the plunge. I had a spool of 30 lb power pro that I had purchased a year or two ago on sale, spooled up the casting reel.

 

I have tightened up the spool tension and increased the mag brakes a bit (before, I was really trying to push the limits on spool tension and brakes in order to get more distance). And I am trying to be more careful with casting form, trying to avoid spinning habits. I am practicing more controlled overhand and sidearm/roll casts. 

 

The result: I have lost a good bit of distance even with the braid, though with heavier lures I can still cover water. I have yet to experience a significant backlash. The braid really does come off the spool easier. 30# does, as some cautioned, dig into itself. I spooled it tight but over time, the lines has naturally loosened from working lures, especially lighter ones. Occasionally the line digs into itself or there is a hidden loop that halts a cast mid-air. But these have been easy to pick out--certainly easier than mono. 

 

Overall: so far, so good.

 

I just need to improve  my casting technique so I can be more comfortable with some of the lures in my tackle box on the lighter side of my combos recommended lure weight range (3/8 to 1 oz).

On 5/17/2025 at 9:30 PM, Bazoo said:

I have a bad habit of letting my thumb off the spool during the beginning of my cast. I get the best results when I have 100% contact with the spool through the cast.

This 100% for me. I sometimes get away with it when throwing a heavier lure, then I switch lures and... I also forget about thumb contact when I try different kinds of casts (overhand v sidearm) as I am focusing more on other parts of the mechanics. 

On 5/18/2025 at 7:37 AM, Mike L said:

A properly adjusted centrifugal brake system, dual or not is your best friend when casting. 

 

 

 

Mike
 

I am the other way. A magnetic brake is far more useful for me than a centrifugal brake. I prefer a reel with both but a reel with just mag brakes is acceptable.

 

With just centrifugal brakes I have to think about it more and I have to be much more cautious. 
 

Of course you can adjust the spool tension to be similar to a centrifugal brake though I rarely do.

46 minutes ago, Bazoo said:

I am the other way. A magnetic brake is far more useful for me than a centrifugal brake. I prefer a reel with both but a reel with just mag brakes is acceptable.

 

With just centrifugal brakes I have to think about it more and I have to be much more cautious. 
 

Of course you can adjust the spool tension to be similar to a centrifugal brake though I rarely do.

Whatever works is always best. 
 

I use my thumb 100% of the time during and at the end of all casts and when pitching. 
Since a mag brake is intended to slow the reel from the apex to before touchdown a mag brake system is useless to me. 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike

I'd honestly say if you have something you want to throw on braid at this point go for it. Regarding the backlashes maybe pick up a new reel...nothing too fancy necessarily needed and even a lews speed spool might improve things a bit along with some good quality line. Which brings me to my next point line quality is definitely a thing and I've found I get little to no backlashes on any of my casting setups with good quality fluoro (or braid but I use fluoro on most of them).

 

Regarding the advantages of a higher priced reel there's definitely a difference but like rods there's an element of diminishing returns to it. Honestly for my purposes a tutula 100 would be idea for most things...maybe an sv if I'm trying to get away with a lighter lure or something but honestly I just use spinning setups for lures that are around .5oz or under.

 

Best of luck.