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Why so flippin long?

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Why are flippin sticks so long?  8', seriously?  What is the advantage here?  I do alot of this in the lake where I fish and have recently been wondering if I need qa proper flippin stick.  I use a 6'6" Hvy Fast rod with a Revo S.  I think I am fairly accurate with my pitches and flips.  Is this a preference thing or is there a real advantage to having another foot and a half of rod to work with.  Thoughts?

Thanks

Cliff

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When you are flipping/pitching it is usually to cover AND with a jig or texas rigged plastic. The longer rod helps you with 2 things: 1) it picks up more line on your hookset so even if you get caught with the rod at the ten o' clock position, for instance, you can still drive a hook home easier than with a shorter rod, and 2) once you hook that fish in the cover, you will have more leverage over the fish to get it out.

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Pitching and flipping are two totally different techniques that require different rigs IMO. For true flipping(HEAVY cover) the longer rods have much more muscle to get the fish out of the cover quickly. Also, you can get more distance in each flip with a longer rod. It also depends a lot on the anglers height. Shorter anglers tend to be more comfortable with shorter rods. For flipping nasty cover i use a Powell 765. For pitching i use a Powell 705C in scattered cover.

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Is this a preference thing or is there a real advantage to having another foot and a half of rod to work with. Thoughts? 

Flipping is designed for close range precision. Having an extra foot and a half of rod essentially adds three feet to your range. I use a 7'5" rod and it suits me just fine.

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Longer rods help a TON, there are MANY reason why, and it's much more then just preference.

Flipping, the longer rod is MANDATORY , you get much more line out there , given that you're not using the reel and just the line that is out, it's a huge advantage.

  The flipping rods pick up much more line on the hook set, and are beef sticks, there aren't many 6'6 rods that I've held that are a stiff and solid as flipping sticks.

Accuracy is another plus, it's helped my accuracy a lot.

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For true flipping you are pulling line back with the off hand and then giving it back during the pendulum swing, like a single haul when fly casting.  The longer rod allows you to reach further.  The longer rod allows for more line to be taken up on a hook set and if you fish braid or super heavy line you can swing a fish a bit easier.  I use a Lamiglas Certified Pro XFT806 for flipping and the 764 for pitchin. BASS set a length rule in the early days for rods so the 7-6 became the standard.  Once rod lockers could hold big sticks the 8 footers became much more popular. ;)

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Pitching and flipping are two totally different techniques that require different rigs IMO.

i pitch with a 6'8" and a 7'.

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It sounds like there is an actual advantage in this situation for the longer rod.  I guess I should look into something a bit longer, 90% of my fishing throughout the year is in this heavy timber you see behind me in this photo.

6lber.jpg

Thanks for the info guys, I knew I could count on y'all!!!

Cliff

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In a nutshell, you want to sneak up on the fish along the bank or other sturcture (stickups, brushpiles, stumps, trees,) and the long rod gives you the power to send your lure into the water softly and where you want it to go without long casts.

You can flip and pitch with any length rod. Your choice.

The guys gave you the advantages of a longer rod above so do what they suggest and are doing.

I have 7-foot plus rods that I use on rivers to flip and pitch.

Get Denny Brauer's DVD or book on jig fishing and he explains flipping and pitching or just Google either technique and read, read, read, read, read, and then practice, practice, practice, practice.......

Great technique. Just watch out for the snakes in the trees!!!  ;D   ;D   ;D

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After seeing what you're fishing, I wouldn't be caught with anything less then my Dobyns 766, and most likely would only be using an 805 (8fter).

Not sure if you've had issues losing fish, but certainly if you get one big enough he could wrap you up pretty easily.

The longer rod also lets you lead and steer the fish away from cover and get them out to open water. I've had to put my rod tip over and under tree branches that I couldn't have done with a foot and a half less.

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Wow, that cover in the picture is calling to me. I wanna work that stuff over with a jig so bad. ;)

I use a 7ft rod for pitching, but I hardly ever flip.  If I flipped more often, I'd probably use a longer rod.

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Wow, that is some nasty cover! Look into that Dobyns 766 that Brokeju mentioned. That rod is really powerful, yet light, surprisingly sensitive and more well balanced than any 7' 6" - 8' flipping stick I've used. I haven't been out on the water yet with it but I'm excited to try it. With the extra length, you'll have better range and control of the fish once hooked. Being able to easily steer that fish really comes in handy. I occasionally do some pitching with my 6' 8" MHXF worm rod and I'm worried sometimes that I might break it because I'm not always able to steer the fish clear of the heavy weeds, and then I have to wrestle it out of there, often losing the fish. It doesn't have nearly the backbone of a longer H power rod.

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That fish in the pic is the biggest i have caught out of there, 6lbs.  I haven't had any trouble losing fish yet, I got all caught up once but thanks to 50lb braid I was able to land the fish.  I think the Dobyns might be out of my price range, I was considering the skeet flippin stick, in my price range, any reports on this stick specifically?

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Red, is that Waco Lake? I've been meaning to head up there.

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It sounds like there is an actual advantage in this situation for the longer rod. I guess I should look into something a bit longer, 90% of my fishing throughout the year is in this heavy timber you see behind me in this photo.

6lber.jpg

Thanks for the info guys, I knew I could count on y'all!!!

Cliff

Man that pic looks like fun... this cabin fever is killin me!!!

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Well to me flippin is a clear water presentation cuz your bait doesnt hammer the water when it enters. But i do flip in any water conditions and in the clear water you wanna try to get as far away as possible from the cover but still makin an accurate flip. Thats when the longer rods help me. And in muddier water you can get  ;)away with getting a little close. Thats when you need a 7 or 7'3" in my opinion.

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Agreed.  ;)

Longer rods help a TON, there are MANY reason why, and it's much more then just preference.

Flipping, the longer rod is MANDATORY , you get much more line out there , given that you're not using the reel and just the line that is out, it's a huge advantage.

The flipping rods pick up much more line on the hook set, and are beef sticks, there aren't many 6'6 rods that I've held that are a stiff and solid as flipping sticks.

Accuracy is another plus, it's helped my accuracy a lot.

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In Denny Brauer's Jig Fishing Secrets DVD he states your rod length should be proportionate with your stature and that if you have no issues with accuracy or your hook up ratio is high then you have no need to make a change.

I flip/pitch matted vegetation, buck (button willows) brush, timber etc. with a 7' rod ;)

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2) once you hook that fish in the cover, you will have more leverage over the fish to get it out.

No, no, no.  This always comes up when we talk about longer rods.  The longer the rod is the LESS leverage the angler has over the fish because you are giving the fish a longer lever to work against you. 

If you want real world examples look at the rods used for shark fishing or tuna fishing.  They aren't 8 footers.  An angler using an 8 foot rod to catch a massive tuna would get pulled in.

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Depends on where your hands are....

Some levers below.  A fishing pole is a class three lever.

fishrod.gif

Lever1.gifLever2.gifLever3.gif

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Depends on where your hands are....

Some levers below. A fishing pole is a class three lever.

Correct, but a class three lever provides no mechanical advantage.  In fact, the longer the lever the greater the DISadvantage.

To verify it do a simple experiment.  Do a bicep curl with a weighted object.  Then attach that weighted object to a stick (or something that increases the distance between the weight and your elbow) and curl it again.  The second weight will feel heavier because you are increasing the mechanical disadvantage of the third class lever by increasing the distance from the load.

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I guess, but why doesn't it play out like this on the water? Surely there are a ton of dynamics beyond just leverage not being considered.

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I guess, but why doesn't it play out like this on the water? Surely there are a ton of dynamics beyond just leverage not being considered.

Because the loads being applied aren't typically going to be enough to cause anyone to notice an issue. A 3 lb bass probably doesn't pull hard enough for the typical angler to notice the difference. However, tuna fishermen catching 100 pounders would know.

As an example, the Penn Tuna Stick is 5'6" or 6' long. If a longer rod provided a mechanical advantage in landing a fish then they would 8' or 9' long.

http://www.consumersmarine.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=87922&pdesc=Penn_Tuna_Stick_TS3080ARA60_Rod&cname=Rods&aID=701A&merchID=1009&r=view

In my opinion, the biggest advantage to a longer rod isn't about leverage, it's about control. You can get your rod tip closer to the fish and are better able to control it. If you're flipping you're already pretty close and a longer rod just gets the rod tip closer so that you can pull the fish where you want it to go. Does a foot make a huge difference? I don't know. I don't even have a flipping rod.

All I know is that you get LESS leverage on the fish with a longer rod. This is a basic scientific fact.

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Why is it easier to lift a fish, or anything on a stick if the fulcrum and the point of effort are farther apart?  I mean, why bother putting the butt of the rod in your gut, or on tuna rigs, in the lap harness if it doesn't offer an advantage?  Are most using the wrong term?  Is there another term?  You can't possibly convince me that no handle is the same as a long handle.

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