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tyrius.

Tourney tactics question...

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I don't get why an angler would "manage" their fish?  For example, I've read some comments (on the Classics blog) where pro's won't try and catch all of their fish in one day, sandbag it.

What could possibly be the benefit of doing this?  If you catch that fish on Day 1 or Day 2 it still goes into your total weight.  Plus, if you decide to leave it and the weather turns, someone else catches it, it moves on, etc then it's gone.

Anyone have a logical explanation for not catching every pound possible?

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Here's an example that kind of explains it. Let's say there is a theoretical fishing hole that has 20 bass. Of those 20 bass, 5 are 5lbers, 5 are 4lbers, 5 are 3lbers and 5 are 2lbers. I can only weigh five fish per day. If I stay at that hole and beat up those fish all day and I am a professional level angler, I might manage to catch all 20 fish on that hole in the course of the day (hypothetically). Now, the heaviest limit I can get off of that hole is 25lbs (5 5lbers) but by catching all of the fish in that hole, I have turned off all of those fish for the following day, meaning if I go back to that hole I will probably get skunked. If this was a two day tournie, I would have 25lbs for the first day and 0lbs for the second day, giving me a total of 25lbs. Now, if I manage my fish the first day, I can catch a solid 15lb limit, leaving about half the fish for the next day. The next day, I can go back to that hole , fish for the rest of those bass and hopefully put together another 15lb bag, bringing my total to 30, which beats the 25lb bag where I didn't manage my fish. I know that was a pretty crude hypothetical example but I hope that kind of explained it a little bit.  :D

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LMB's can group or socialize by size. Lets say your honey hole is full of 3lber's. You are not able to cull up much...but you're getting bit every other cast. What would anyone do? Sore lip everyone of them and compare them all, on the carpet of your boat or go find a kicker ?  With river fish it might be 100 yards and a different presentation. You can bet that the best anglers manage their course just like Tiger manages his!

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Just like everything else in fishing--This is one of the variables and decisions you need to make.  You can also get burned by managing your fish too.  You think you're managing your fish and leave at 9:00, but you may not know that Joe Blow snuck in there at 10:00 and whacked 'em.  But, knowing if anyone else is using your water is also part of management too!!  It's all part of this wonderful game!!

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Here's an example that kind of explains it. Let's say there is a theoretical fishing hole that has 20 bass. Of those 20 bass, 5 are 5lbers, 5 are 4lbers, 5 are 3lbers and 5 are 2lbers. I can only weigh five fish per day. If I stay at that hole and beat up those fish all day and I am a professional level angler, I might manage to catch all 20 fish on that hole in the course of the day (hypothetically). Now, the heaviest limit I can get off of that hole is 25lbs (5 5lbers) but by catching all of the fish in that hole, I have turned off all of those fish for the following day, meaning if I go back to that hole I will probably get skunked. If this was a two day tournie, I would have 25lbs for the first day and 0lbs for the second day, giving me a total of 25lbs. Now, if I manage my fish the first day, I can catch a solid 15lb limit, leaving about half the fish for the next day. The next day, I can go back to that hole , fish for the rest of those bass and hopefully put together another 15lb bag, bringing my total to 30, which beats the 25lb bag where I didn't manage my fish. I know that was a pretty crude hypothetical example but I hope that kind of explained it a little bit. :D

WOW!

This is something I had never considered. Excellent explanation.

8-)

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I know that was a pretty crude hypothetical example but I hope that kind of explained it a little bit. :D

Makes sense, but it seems to me that you're taking a risk of only getting 15 lbs though.

What if the weather changes?  What if another angler in the tourney moves onto that spot?  What if some random other guy sees you catching there and goes back later in the day catching as many as he can?  What if your spot actually replenishes and you could've caught 25lbs and then overnight more fish would've moved onto that spot and now you can say catch 15 more lbs (that would give you 40lbs!)?  What if, what if, what if?

Isn't 25lbs in the livewell better than 15lbs with the hope of another 15lbs the next day?

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Isn't 25lbs in the livewell better than 15lbs with the hope of another 15lbs the next day?

I wish I could recall his name, but one of the pros interviewed during

the Classic made a comment along these lines:

"To have any chance of being #1 you must be willing to gamble.

That means the possibility of going from #2 to #11 or even worse."

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Isn't 25lbs in the livewell better than 15lbs with the hope of another 15lbs the next day?

I wish I could recall his name, but one of the pros interviewed during

the Classic made a comment along these lines:

"To have any chance of being #1 you must be willing to gamble.

That means the possibility of going from #2 to #11 or even worse."

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that was Boyd Duckett.

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Bass wrangler is dead on, great explanation.  I think their thought process is something like this.  Why sore lip 18 pounds of fish to cull up 1 or 2 pounds when you can come back and get all 18 pounds the next day.  Personally I could never to this.  For one; my club only fishes 3 2 day events per year so water/fish management is not something I practice regularly.  Second, and more importantly, I'm simply not good enough.  I can't expect to come back on day 2 and get my limit of leftover fish.  These guys, however, are that good.  Their experience allows them to know fairly accurately, what it's gonna take to win each event and what they'll need each day.  When they hit that mark they know they can shut it down for that hole.  They'll find a way to boat those fish the next day even if the weather changes.  That's what makes them Elites.

Just my opinion.

-D

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The explanation is great and makes it sound very simple.  Unfortunately, you don't know that there are 5-5pounders, 4-3pounders etc and the pros don't either.  Also, you don't know that they will be there or even close to that location the following day.  Smallies, for example, could be here one day and gone the next and if you didn't soak that area for all it's worth, you missed out.  

Managing a location is a big gamble and its not an easy decision to leave an area when you're getting them.  Even the pros struggle on this, ask Kelly Jordan!  It is something to condsider, but it isn't always the correct course of action.  This Classic was an exception, in most cases, if you only have one area for a multi-day event, you're screwed.

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Very true Bass Dude, it might not always the best course of action and it is a gamble but as Boyd Duckett said, To have any chance at being #1 you have to gamble.  I also heard, on several occasions during the event and pre-fish, that The Red was fishing small. I think that fact made managing fish even more important at The Classic and could be why we heard more about it this past weekend than during some other events.  Or, maybe I just paid more attention last weekend than I do to most other events hehehe.

Interesting topic.

-D

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Problem lies in the fact that on day 2 those bass may not bite at all thereby leaving you with only your day 1 sack of 15#; the key to tournament success lies in having multiple duplicate spots containing duplicate patterns and rotating through each as necessary.

Never put all your eggs in one basket ;)

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This is a super tough decision to make especially when their is substantial money on the line. I'm sure I'm not the only one who can say that it has worked out sometimes and other times it has bit me right in the ....

I do believe that the guys that consistently cash on multiple day tournaments do so because they have learned how to make the right "gambles" based upon their ability to manage fish.

All that said it is pretty darn hard to leave fish!

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According to the above hypothetical this would be the best possible scenario

5 bass @ 5#: 25#

5 bass @ 4#: 20#

5 bass @ 3#:15#

5 bass @ 2#: 10#

70# total pounds possible

70# divided by 5 bass = 3.5# average

Multiply 3.5 by 5 bass = 17.5# per day

17.5# per day times 2 days = 35#

17.5# per day times 3 days = 52.5#

What you need to determine is will a 17.5# average will be enough to win the tournament & that my friend is how you manage your fish.

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According to the above hypothetical this would be the best possible scenario

5 bass @ 5#: 25#

5 bass @ 4#: 20#

5 bass @ 3#:15#

5 bass @ 2#: 10#

70# total pounds possible

70# divided by 5 bass = 3.5# average

Multiply 3.5 by 5 bass = 17.5# per day

17.5# per day times 2 days = 35#

17.5# per day times 3 days = 52.5#

What you need to determine is will a 17.5# average will be enough to win the tournament & that my friend is how you manage your fish.

Again, this would be great, if you only knew what was down there.  

It's like watching the World Series of Poker on ESPN...and thinking how easy it is, then you realize you can't see everyone else's cards when you're at the table!!!

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I don't think he's saying it's easy.  He's just saying what their thought process is.   It's gotta be a tough call for even the best bass anglers but that's why they are the best.  Heck, event the best get kicked in the back side every now and again.

-D

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Again, this would be great, if you only knew what was down there.  
Multi day tournaments add many elements to the typical formula.  prefishing is how you know what was there.  Hopefully those hadn't moved that far come time for the TX.

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Two practice days and you have a spot that is really loaded up with good fish. You go in the first morning and catch a 6, a 4, two threes, and a five. You are only allowed to weigh in a five fish limit. This being a two day tournament are you going to sit there half the day and catch as many as possible? I doubt it. Whether they bite the next day or not, the smart thing to do is back away and HOPE you can catch a few more the next day. Sometimes it works and other times not.

It's a sure bet you won't catch a lot the second morning if you wear them out the first day. You have to give yourself a chance.

If it is a one day tournament, you bet I will try to work them over squeesing every ounce out of that pile of fish I can.

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