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fishbear

Running & Gunning vs. Taking your sweet time

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OK, here is a scenario for ya......

I have been out with a buddy a couple of times lately(in his boat, since I am converting mine)..... he is the run and gun type fisherman, but always complains about not catching a lot of fish  ......

With the colder weather, he still will not leave that @#$%%$#@$#@ trolling motor off, and just fish a spot for 20 - 30 min.... even fishing plastics, I can cast out and 2 min. later, I am trolling my plastic,  ;D :-/ :o  

I have tried numerous times to get him to slow down and just fish a spot, (he wont listen)  Now, he does hang a hawg once in a while, 10.5 lbs is his PB.  But his average per trip is down around 2-3 fish a trip both fishermen included.

We are talking Lake Varner here guys, where Randall hangs all those hawgs.  I see Randall out on the lake, he sits on a spot till he wears it out.  My buddy completely disagrees with the tactic, he wants to cover the entire lake in one outing................(even though he sees the results from Randall's posts......

I guess I am frustrated, this guy is a good fisherman, but he is not reading the situation right and keeps fishing like it is late spring or early fall still.

Any ideas????????????? other than smacking him up side the head with a bat, and throwing him overboard (although he does have a real nice new G3   ::)   )

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It's hard to complain when you fishing in some one else's boat!

In the sport of fishing the wide array of techniques that will produce is why it is so appealing to so many.

Some people are run & gunners

Some are stay & players

It's all good   8-)

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I will run and gun anytime the bass may not be moving alot and are more likely to be holding on a point,on a brushpile,on a hump or ledge etc....I move from spot to spot but I stay on each spot for at least 20 minutes.Kind of like "hurry up and wait".

In the spring or fall,I will burn the banks because the fish are more likely to be roaming shallow looking for either a place to spawn or something to eat.Thats when covering water pays off the most in my opinion.If you cover enough water during the times they are shallow,you're bound to run into some fish sooner or later.

Hank Parker is one that comes to mind that always covered lots of water with a spinnerbait.That was his philosophy......cover as much water as possible.It worked for him.

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I think this falls into the knolledge catagory, or lack there of. I'm not saying the guy is dumb, just lack of knolledge. If you did a poll, and I might do it, you would probably see that the field is split on spot fishing or running. Some guys were taught to fish one way and never adapted. Nothing wrong with it, just not diverse enough. I personnally work a body of water the way the fish "tell" me to. If they are holding in a pattern where I can sit in one area and pick up 3-4 fish in hour, so be it. If not run & gun is the ticket. Of course running to 30 different spots and only picking up 3 fish is'nt too productive either. Alot of guys that run like this are'nt fishing the "spots" correctly. They pull up make ten casts at an open bank and leave. You have to at least give the fish a chance to react, unless it's a tourny, then your playing the odds. Cover as much water with the most casts of a search bait looking for the reactive or active fish. Not a very reliable technique, but it does work. I prefer to pick a spot apart a little before moving on, maybe give it 10-15min. Of course all of this pertains mainly to lake fishing, Moving water is a whole other ball game.

Bottom line is let the fish dictate how fast you fish or move around, you don't leave fish to find more.

Rob

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Maddening isn 't it ?

My friend Pedro is the run&gun type but not the kind of run and gun that moves fast casting to every single spot ( something that I can stand ), he 's worse than that, it 's the type that runs to one spot, drops anchor, casts for 20 min and then lifts the anchor to crank the engine and run to another "likely" spot 30 miles away.

Two weeks ago we had a heated discussion about this, I located a great spot on the finder, the fish were there and the kind of spot you can milk all day long and catch fish all day long, we dropped anchor and began fishing it, after me catching 11 fish and he catching nothing I saw that gleam in his eyes, ya know what I mean, he was ready to move, why fix it if it ain 't broke ? the fish are here, I 'm catching them, if you are not then it 's not the fish problem it 's you are not fishing right; why crank the engine and go looking 10 miles away for what you already have right here ?

Finally, just not to continue the arguing which most probably would have ended with me getting off the boat ( like it has happened many times before ) we lifted the anchor and moved  >:(, ok, he selected the spot, it 's his spot and ...... how come he didn 't catch except a couple of fish meanwhile I began anhilating them ?

Just to crank up the engine and guess what ? but of course, to travel another 10 miles looking for another spot.

It 's been said that man is the only animal that trips twice on the same rock, and here I am, tripping with the same stone over and over again for the last 20+ years we have fished together, some people will never learn.  ::)

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Guest avid

I think there could be a completely different explanation.

The guy enjoys fishing cranks and rattltraps whatever in a run and gun way.

It's how he has fun bass fishing.

I have said it many times before.  Before Bass became an occupation and after it was solely a means of obtaining protein, it was a fun activity.

Personally, I like to take it easy.  If I believe fish are in an area I'll work it pretty patiently, It's how I LIKE to fish.

It's hard to complain when you fishing in some one else's boat!

You can be good fishing buddies with someone and say whatever comes to mind. That's what good friends are all about.  But untill that special relationship is bonded I think it is "poor form" to complain when on anothers boat.  Even if you are paying for gas, or bait or something, it is......how would Miss Manners say it?  oh yeah.

It is "simply not done"  

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I was fishing a draw tournament with a guy that is like that. I had to sit him down and tell the guy "Hey the bite is going to be slow so we need to milk areas otherwise we will be running over catchable fish and if we fish fast we will miss them." I would tell the guy "hey let me make a couple casts on this spot I think there is a fish there or I just had a strike lets spend some time here and see if I can't pick it up". I was fishing another tournament and I swear my jig never hit bottom the whole tournament. ;D

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For the most part the faster the boat goes the faster people fish. The real art is to move fast and fish slow. It takes a lot of practice.

Garnet

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I guess to me, it is the fact, he complains about not catching a lot of fish or a lot of big fish... however, he knows what needs to be done to increase his chances to catch these fish he is looking for, but will not do it...

It would be like a guy has a broken arm, knows what needs to be done to get it fixed, but refuses to do it.. :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

I know it boils down to ea. individual person about how the LIKE to fish, but is that not what versatility is all about..... to fish a way you may not be the most comfortable with, but if you get results, you become more comfortable.....???????????????

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For some people seeing is believing and until they see something in person they just won't believe it. Once you get your boat back on the water take him out and let him fish slow style. Maybe once he catches fish that way he'll be more open to fish that way.

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I see Randall out on the lake, he sits on a spot till he wears it out.  My buddy completely disagrees with the tactic, he wants to cover the entire lake in one outing................(even though he sees the results from Randall's posts......  

I was going to ask if he as seen some of Randall's results using the tactics he completely disagrees with.  But you answered that!

Has he ever tried slowing down??

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Heck, he will even admit (off the water of course) that he probably should slow down,, however, he never puts it to practice....  ::) ::) ::) ::)

I have taken him out in my boat and we both caught fish that day..... but he still wont learn,,, maybe it is the fact he is hyper or ????????

Who knows,,  it will probably be a couple of more weeks till my boat is ready for the water again, but I will drag him out once it is done,,"to have him help me test drive it"  then maybe I will go throw a drop shot or something and make him slow down,  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Running and gunning is great if you don't know where the active fish are. (Randall is a huge run and gun fisherman if he hasn't found them.) But once you catch one or two fish it's time to slow down and figure out why they are there and what they are looking for. The fact is that bass are schooling fish. They don't occupy on spot like a crappie but the hang out in an area moving in and out as a school to feed.

 Just like in September when Randall and I finished #1 and #2 in that Varner tournament. We had found the spots by running around looking for spots that matched the pattern that Randall had found the week prior. In my three days of prefishing I only caught 4 fish, but I wasn't looking for fish. I knew that if I found a spot that matched the pattern (green grass in 5ft close to deeper water) I would find fish there come tournament day. I ran around the lake pulling up grass with a heavy jig for three days. I found three spots and that is where I fished. Come tournament day I camped out on those three spots and the rest is history.

When you get your boat. Take him out with you, try the run and gun thing until you find them. Then slow down and clean house. Show him how it's done.

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I find fish by running and gunning. Your buddy couldn't keep up with me when I am running and gunning.  ;) :oI will fish a buzzbait, topwater, crankbait or spinnerbait sometimes at Varner with all three trolling motors on high to find the fish. I am not even trying to catch them. I just want to see them flash on the bait to give away their location as I whiz by. Then I go back and work each spot over where I catch a fish or see a fish and fish every inch of it. I want to know the exact spot the fish feed when active and where they hold when inactive. Do they suspend or hide down in the grass or cover when they aren't feeding? I also want to know how they travel back and forth across the structure  to get from place to place. Now, by the time you see me I already know exactly where these fish live, how they live there, and why they live there. I know where the bigger fish are most likely to come from and where numbers of smaller fish are more likely to come from on the same point, ledge, etc. This all gives me the confidence to slow down and work a spot until I hit a fish in the head and it has to bite when the fish aren't biting because I know exactly where they live. If the fish are biting I just fish a faster bait and catch even more fish but I have no reason to run spot to spot to do it until I have already caught all I can off that spot. My boat only does 3.5-4.0 mph so I am better off staying put and catching one or two more where I know I can catch one or two more fish instead of running to another spot where the fish probably aren't biting any better and wasteing time running when I could be fishing. If you look at all the guys that win Varner tournaments on a regular basis this is how all of them fish.  I learned most of it by fishing with and watching them fish. Once they find the fish they know how to catch them even if they aren't biting. There is only so much running and gunning you can do at less than five MPH and still expect to catch fish. But, If your buddy has no confidence in the spot it would be hard to expect him to stay put as long as I do. So, use your time in his boat to find some fish and new spots then go back in your boat later and actually learn the spots and catch more fish.

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All you rookies and less experienced anglers read what Randall said and then read it again!

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If your buddy has a fast boat, it could be that he enjoys hauling-a** across the water more than he does fishing.  Maybe he was a power boat racer in a previous life.

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Fluke,

That day you and I went out?  That was extemely slow fishing compared to how my buddy fishes....  

Maybe I fish to slow.. but then I primarily am trying to fish plastics and jigs, and some chatterbaits..... I still have no confidence in rat l traps or spinnerbaits...  can not for the life of me catch fish with them....

But then, Varner has become my nemisis lake, maybe because it is so close to me, and I can not figure it out....

Randall, thanks for the advice.  And soon you will be getting a call from me to book a trip,, the bait monkey is still dead until then  ;D.

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If he is talking about Lake Varner then "fast" is only 4 to 5 mph. It's an electric boat only lake. So to run and gun 100% of the time is pointless.

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Fluke,

That day you and I went out? That was extemely slow fishing compared to how my buddy fishes....

Maybe I fish to slow.. but then I primarily am trying to fish plastics and jigs, and some chatterbaits..... I still have no confidence in rat l traps or spinnerbaits... can not for the life of me catch fish with them....

But then, Varner has become my nemisis lake, maybe because it is so close to me, and I can not figure it out....

Randall, thanks for the advice. And soon you will be getting a call from me to book a trip,, the bait monkey is still dead until then ;D.

Because Varner is mostly underwater cover and subtle structure, time on the water is your best bet at understanding it. It was a thorn in my side untill this year when I started going regularly. I have put several thousand miles on my truck to get it done but it was well worth it. I now have confidence in that lake and it feels great.

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Trust me, I have every intention of learning that lake!!!!!!!  I will not give up until I do.... guess I am stubborn that way.... will not let it get the best of me, even when I get upset with myself for not catching fish out of there....  sooner or later, I will be posting hawgs out of that lake..... I may be 80 yrs old,  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D but it will happen  

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I may be 80 yrs old, ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D but it will happen

That's what, three or four years from now?  

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Man, that is what is just wrong with your generation Fluke,, you dont respect  your elders!    

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

but since you mentioned it,, maybe  I should go check the mail see if my SS check has come in yet!

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for myself, whether I run and gun, or sit on one spot for 8 hours straight, all depends on "how I'm fishing for them". I used to sit on a single rock pile all day long, stitching a live dad. Nowadays, I will run up to a spot, make 4 to 8 casts with a swimbait, followed by very slow, steady retrieves. This might only take me 10 or 15 minutes, but that's usually enough. When swimbait fishing, a big bass will either hammer it the first time it sees it, or it won't hit it at all, no matter how many more times it sees it. Honestly, if its not going to eat it right then, I'd rather it not be able to study it any more, anyway..... as I will likely come back around and give it another chance later.

So, I run and gun, but my presentation is still usually very slow, and steady.

Peace,

Fish

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I HAVE CERTAIN "HONEY HOLES" THAT I FREQUENT. DEPENDING ON CONDITIONS, I'LL HIT A SPOT HARD FOR 10-15 MINUTES. IF NOTHING, I'LL HIT ANOTHER. WHEN I DO START CATCHING FISH I'LL CAMP THERE FOR THE REST OF THE DAY.

ALOT OF TIMES, WHEN I FIND A PATTERN, I'LL FISH IT A WHILE AND CHANGE TACTICS JUST SEE IF THEY WILL CONTINUE TO HIT ON SOMETHING ELSE.

FOR ME, I'LL CHANGE TACTICS MORE THAN LOCATIONS.

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