Some thoughts on Bass Fishing

[Guest avid]

Hey Avid I have been Bass Fishin for 10 years, just got into it more completly when I arrived here

Sorry muddy, I didn't realize "Coney Island Whitefish" were bass  

[Needemp]

Needhemp- MANY pro's ABSOLUTELY DO rely on guides and locals to help them learn a lake.

I disagree that they "ABSOLUTELY DO rely" on locals. I have heard it explained by KVD, Ike and others that you don't get caught up with what the locals say, but rather take what they say with a grain of salt and hope you get a tiny morsel. It seems kind of silly to think that Rick Clunn would rely on locals when all he has to do is tap into his vast resource of knowledge and experience. They might suggest a pink crankbait tears 'em up in the spring or something like that, but that is not the kind of info that you can ABSOLUTELY rely on. I don't know exactly how guides are utilized but I can't imagine the big boys "relying" on them. I think that guides can be beneficial, but they are just another tool. For instance, I think anyone of those big boys can get on a new lake and do real well without the use of a guide.

[cart7t]

I don't know exactly how guides are utilized but I can't imagine the big boys "relying" on them

Taking one of their "spots", say like a rock jetty, and utilizing it to win a tournament.

Just funnin with ya.   ;D

One thing a pro like KVD does best is set himself up with multiple patterns on a lake during the practice periods.  Those multiple patterns usually involve different baits with different presentations in different types of water.  Roland Martin did that for years.  To think an angler as talented as Van Dam is would allow himself to become a "one method Pete" is crazy.  Too many things change over the course of a 3 or 4 day tournament. If you can't change with conditions you won't be at the top of the leader board and being at the top is something that guy does often.

[Needemp]

I agree Cart, and I do think that guides (or buddies) can give some good locations away. Take Little Dixie for example. I am not that experienced to walk on a lake I have never fished and figure it out. But you knew the lake and we went over it the week before. The top pro's don't have to rely on that kind of stuff. They get out their maps, go to those spots, examine it themselves and have enough success to be one of the best in the world. I don't think it is as flippant as 'letting the cards fall as they may'. They will adjust if the spinnerbait bite is off, if the crankbait bite is off, if the shallow bite is not working, etc. I think from all of their desire and experience, they can get on a lake and figure it out. Do they always have success, heck no, but they do more often than their competition. It just kind of ruffles my feathers when people try to diminish their skills, or blame it on luck. These guys are just that good. End of rant ;D

PS I think these topics are good because it gives the more experienced anglers something to banter about.

[largemouthslayer]

*** MODERATOR NOTE ***

This topic is pretty broad, but it's NOT another debate over bed fishing...Please stay on topic or start a new thread.

Sorry RW just one more off the topic please....WERE IN THE  H_LL ARE OUR MOOK T SHIRTS????????????

[bubbler]

you just owned it dude!!!! 8-)

[Catt]

Yes I am serious; name me one tournament where the conditions changed enough to go from say a shallow spinner bait bit to a deep crank bait bit. Why would someone leave an area where fish are biting to go to an area where they may be biting?

I don't know how this turned into what a tournament pro does but let's continue. To establish a pattern capable of winning a tournament you select an area based on the season that has a healthy population of bass. Then you select 2 or 3 techniques that would be effective on that selected area from the surface down to the bottom (the entire water column). Next you repeat this for 2 or 3 areas, now you have your game plan established. You do not try to establish a top water bite, spinner bait bite, jig bite, jerk bait bite, c-rig bite, drop shot bite, shaky head bite, wacky worm bite and so on. Yes the pros are very versatile but he is not going to try to fish every bait in his tackle box; that's a trick only weekend warriors use.  

[cart7t]

If you go back through the annals of bass tournament results, there are as many wins that were achieved by guys moving to several preselected spots using different baits and presentations as there are with guys who camped out on a select piece of structure.

Yes I am serious; name me one tournament where the conditions changed enough to go from say a shallow spinner bait bit to a deep crank bait bit. Why would someone leave an area where fish are biting to go to an area where they may be biting?

Cold front passes through, lake rises, lake falls, lake clears, lake muddies up, rain moves in or rain moves out.  The possibilities are endless.  Sometimes just the pressure of the tournament itself shuts the fish off.  I've read quite a few tourney results where a guy runs to a spot knowing the bite is on in that spot for only an hour or so on a particular bait and then whammo, it shuts off.  Then they pull up stakes and move to another pre-selected pattern for the rest of the day.  How many times has a guy got a pattern setup to catch a quick limit and then change patterns completely in order to catch that kicker fish or two?  

While it's true that some tourney guys do camp out on an area, fish it and let the chips fall where they may.  If I was fishing I sure wouldn't rely on a pattern to hold for 3 or 4 days considering the conditions under which I'm fishing will change (water level, clarity, air pressure, weather conditions, etc.) I'd definitely try and come up with some backup fish in case things go awry.  

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

it's simple,....the bass can't read these posts so they don't know that they were supposed to bite a dark bait on a dark day with a slow fall.  

Badhabit- don't limit yourself by geography.  I sure do care what works no matter what part of the country you're from.  A bumper sticker like that just makes you look green w/ ***  (Being from RI though,....it's understandable  ;D )

Needhemp- MANY pro's ABSOLUTELY DO rely on guides and locals to help them learn a lake.

LBH - That sticker wasn't made about fishermen. But does apply in a lot of situations though with the thick cover, shallow water, tons of types of vegetation, muck, and FL not having even 1 rock that is native (except limerock).

If you worked in construction here in FL where the laws are all much more strict because of the weather (hurricanes, tornados, hail, etc...) you would know what it meant Most things that you build here have to be built to withstand 125 mph winds. With the flood of people that move here every year and get hired to work not having a clue how to build things in FL (and all other states are north of FL). A person gets kind of tired hearing "Up home we do that this way."

I wouldn't have a clue about fishing for smallmouth or largemouth up north and would prob bomb out (+ I don't do snow ).

So don't take it personal Bro and I still look forward to putting you on a double digit bass. (doing my best to anyway)  ;D

lol,..I was just messing with ya bro  Being in construction, the sticker makes sense.  We build roads and build things differently for good reason, we have different climates.  I wouldn't expect FL roads to be built with "frost heaves" in mind like we have to do up here,etc...

however,...

A bass is a bass is a bass,  whether she's in Fl, RI, or Croatia.  C'mon up, you'll do just fine!

Yes I am serious; name me one tournament where the conditions changed enough to go from say a shallow spinner bait bit to a deep crank bait bit. Why would someone leave an area where fish are biting to go to an area where they may be biting?

I don't know how this turned into what a tournament pro does but let's continue. To establish a pattern capable of winning a tournament you select an area based on the season that has a healthy population of bass. Then you select 2 or 3 techniques that would be effective on that selected area from the surface down to the bottom (the entire water column). Next you repeat this for 2 or 3 areas, now you have your game plan established. You do not try to establish a top water bite, spinner bait bite, jig bite, jerk bait bite, c-rig bite, drop shot bite, shaky head bite, wacky worm bite and so on. Yes the pros are very versatile but he is not going to try to fish every bait in his tackle box; that's a trick only weekend warriors use.  

CLOSE!

You do all of that but also include 2 or 3 baits/techniques for the variable of a changing condition.  Yes, they may have 2-3 styles for catching the fish that have been up on the flats that rise out of deep water.  Low pressure, cloudy days, the fish have been there.  They know this.  They also know however, that if the sun pops after a few days of cloudiness that the fish will pull off those flats and shoot for deeper water.  They also have a plan for this.  It may not be the right one but they do plan ahead.  

No single angler will stick to a method derived from current conditions if those conditions change.  If/when those conditions disappear, so will that specific approach to catching them.

[Catt]

Since we are picking on KVD, 73 times he finished 20th or worse; do you think he did that by running to several locations?

The problem I see is there are some here who when a topic to posted they automaticly run to the extreme left or extreme right. Yes there are exceptions to every rule but that is why in the beginning I said this aint an exact science. But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is.  

I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius.  

[Guest avid]

I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius

Well That is absolutlely the last straw catt.

EVERYONE knows that the moon is in the seventh house and jupiter is aligned with mars.

I can't beleive you would spread such blatant untruths.  

[George Welcome]

"But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is."

And dats the twuth of it all.

[largemouthslayer]

I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius

Well That is absolutlely the last straw catt.

EVERYONE knows that the moon is in the seventh house and jupiter is aligned with mars.

I can't beleive you would spread such blatant untruths.

I'll have to read this again around 4:20 8-)

[-badhabit-]

"But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is."

And dats the twuth of it all.

That's what I was saying in the beginning....... "Give me an old bag of worms and a baitcaster then I will put fish in the boat"

(Some people do well with spinning outfits but I've only casted a spinning rod a couple of times in my life...anything that the line goes on sideways looks like trouble to me. With a baitcaster I could rip your shirt pocket off with a lure without ever touching you @ 50'...... lol)

[largemouthslayer]

"But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that aint that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is."

And dats the twuth of it all.

That's what I was saying in the beginning....... "Give me an old bag of worms and a baitcaster then I will put fish in the boat"

(Some people do well with spinning outfits but I've only casted a spinning rod a couple of times in my life...anything that the line goes on sideways looks like trouble to me. With a baitcaster I could rip your shirt pocket off without ever touching you ...... lol)

I could not agree more. A couple of weeks ago I made a post of what 4 lures would you use if that was it. I have not fished with KVD but have watched him on tv alot. Yes he can finesse fish (sorry I've tried it and feel like I'm crappie fishing with my daughter....all you finesse guys don't get your panties in a wad I didn't say your a girl if you finesse fish) I just feel like a man cheerleader when I do it. KVD can jig fish , but every time I've seen him it's a spinnerbait or rattle trap. I bet if you followed RW around a while Senko or Fat Ika or Russ Alurring Salt Stick. I think this is all CATT trying to say keep it simple fish what you know.

[Needemp]

Since we are picking on KVD, 73 times he finished 20th or worse; do you think he did that by running to several locations?

The problem I see is there are some here who when a topic to posted they automatically run to the extreme left or extreme right. Yes there are exceptions to every rule but that is why in the beginning I said this ain't an exact science. But Dudes y'all are over complicating some thing that ain't that difficult by worrying about the exceptions. I talk to guys at work, listen to guys here and y'all are worrying about the what if's instead of the what is.  

I'm not concerned with what KVD does he can take care of himself but I do care about the people here, while some of this is interesting information who cares if Jupiter is in the 3rd house and the moon is on the cusp of Sagittarius.  

CATT, your original post was "I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science. I establish what I believe to be truths & the bass prove its all lies. About the time I think I have the bass figured out the bass prove I don't. All this talk about color, rods, reels, boats, moon phases, can a bass see my line etc is just interesting information. So I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may." ----You take the side that truths don't exist ("the bass prove its all lies"), that this sport is "simple", color, rods, etc. will not help you become better but is rather just "interesting information" and that the "chips will fall where they may".

I disagree totally if you want to be the best. That goes absolutely against what the 'best' actually say. In my opinion based on everything I have learned and observed, if you have that way of thinking, you won't measure up with the best. I have no doubt that you can catch bass, but based on your way of thinking, I don't think you could measure up with any of the top guys. I am not trying to cut you down, you have a lot to teach the people here. But I think your comments are detrimental to the growth of newbies. That is not what I am experiencing and that is not what is taught by the pro's. Personally, I think if you believe all those quotes you can't make it to the top. I might be wrong, but if so, those big boys are the ones misleading me.

[George Welcome]

What I said in above post: And dats the twuth of it all.

What I would like to know is what anyone feels the "Pros" are telling?

The only thing they can tell you is the mechanical aspects of this sport. They are not about to tell you their innermost thoughts, for that would tell you how they do what they do, and how they think: that would be akin to giving away top government secrets.

What the Pros have learned and truly believe you may never know. However, if you choose to follow that route, you will learn it, but more importantly you will learn to believe. It is that believing that the ones that rise to the top all have. It is the believing without falter that keeps them at the top. When that belief falters the slide down is quick and sure.

[Catt]

Ok then let's elaborate a little more

1. I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science

Example of exact science: The times for the major fishing periods according to science are the first quarter new moon and the third quarter full moon.

Truth: My records over 35 yrs prove I have done just a well regardless of moon phase unless I'm fishing tidal water.

2. I establish what I believe to be truths & the bass prove its all lies  

What is taught as truth Dark colors in dark water and light colors in clear water? A bass itself will blow holes in this theory.

3. All this talk about color, rods, reels, boats, moon phases, can a bass see my line ECT is just interesting information.

While even I enjoy debating these subjects the bass could care less if you're in a fiberglass boat or an aluminum boat, or if you use Shimano vs. Garcia, Lighting Rod vs. G. Loomis.

4. So I simply go fishing any time I can, using the techniques I have confidence in, & I let the chips fall where they may.  

The absolute best time to go fishing is any time you can.

If I'm in a tournament or just wanting to catch I use techniques I have confidence in.

I don't fret over all the extremes you guys do; I believe this keeps my head clear of BS so I can concrete on what roadwarrior stated what is known about bass behavior, what experience on the water has taught us and our perception of the clues on any given day.

And you believe this to be detrimental to the growth of newbies, I sir believe buying into all the hype associated with bass fishing is detrimental to the growth of newbie's.

[dink]

First of all, excellent post, Catt.

I try to see things objectively, so I understood the essence of Catt's statement.  If taken literally, one could see this as a detriment to a newbie's learning curve.  I don't think that is what was implied here, though.  He simply stated that we, as slaves to the industry , tend to overcomplicate things in the name of convenience or progress.  With this, I wholeheartedly agree.

I know Needemp.  I've fished tournies with him and just for fun.  This guy is like a sponge to info ;D.  Yet, he likes to compete (as do I) and bases success on those outcomes.  I know not totally, but this is where the 'glory hunt' comes into play.  And since he likes to compete, his measuring stick will be the touring pros.  

Where the chips fall?  I usually eat 'embefore they hit the ground.

[senile1]

It is fun and interesting to learn and debate about the supposed tendencies of bass, the characteristics of equipment, and the performance of lures.  I do agree that if we complicate things too much it can, at times, be detrimental to our success.  There is so much information out there that it can blow a Newbie's mind.  

Newbies should stick to the fundamentals.  Learn a lure or two and work the hell out of them.  Then learn another lure or two and do the same.  Pick up techniques one at a time.  Most of us aren't experts with every single lure or in every single situation.  Most long-time bassers probably could count with the fingers on one hand the lures and techniques that we can truly say we have absolutely mastered.  This is not to say we can't catch bass with many lures and techniques, but how many of these are go-to techniques that we are extremely confident with?  Generally, these are the ones we have mastered.  And these are the ones we use the most because we know our chances of putting fish in the boat are much higher using them.  And then we let the chips fall where they may . . . . . . or we try something that we haven't mastered.

[Guest avid]

I sir believe buying into all the hype associated with bass fishing is detrimental to the growth of newbie's

Yeah but it's great for the growth of the takle companies  ;D

[Catt]

The definition of word detrimental means obviously harmful  

Needemp, so you're saying since I haven't won a B.A.S.S. OR FLW event I aint at the top of bass fishing?

[Glenn]

Catt - do you honestly believe he meant that, or....??  Even if he did, what does it matter?

Let's keep this thread from getting personal, guys.  People get defensive, then aggressive.  Seen it happen too many times before.

Keep your eye on the ball and focus on the topic at hand instead.

[Matt Fly]

A great example of a pro doing what they know best was seen on the Northern Run of the Elite Series to the Great Northern waters.

Every body who predicted a winner said, "who ever patterns the smallies" will be in the money.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Northern tour series bring back to back winners with Largemouth sacks and were caught shallow on jigs?    Exactly opposite of what the pro's thought.

I believe Biffle and Brauer went "against the grain".      98 other pros tried what they thought would put the best limit in the boat.

Matt

To me, they fished their strengths.

[DR_Bass]

I understand that bass fishing is not an exact science

Thank God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can say that again!!!