Team9nine

Another way to tell that’s it’s likely milfoil from the pics is that milfoil is soft and will fold on itself out of water like in his picture. If you look at @Catt picture of coontail which is shown out of the water, you can see the “leaves” retain their stiffness and form. This is because coontail has a much higher concentration of Calcium and Magnesium. Milfoil out of water is more like a piece of cooked spaghetti.

Interesting replies, and maybe something is getting lost in the translation, but throwing everything, everywhere with no reason isn’t “junk fishing” - it’s stupid. Historically, “junk fishing” has been when you don’t have a specific pattern dialed in, so you just fish all the options present, especially cover based ones, with high percentage techniques, hoping to either eventually stumble upon a pattern, or to put together a good bag of fish by catching a keeper or two off each individual piece of cover you fish.

Regional names aside, looks like milfoil to me from those pics…

That’s the good and the bad about forums - lol. You’ll get a range of experiences and opinions, but most times you’ll be no closer to a consensus/answer than before you asked the question ? Like when the topic of knots comes up - everyone swears by a different knot that they’ve never broken. Everything is perspective. Not a big difference between 20# and 10# braid, especially when compared to mono or fluoro diameters, yet 20# braid is about 50% greater diameter than 10# braid. You’ll just have to start somewhere and then evaluate if it’s working for you.

A few thoughts - 1/10 oz isn't light; that's a rock, especially in just 7'-8' of water. They have their place, but be sure to also get some 1/15-1/16-1/20 oz heads which will probably cover 90% of your fishing. As for outfits, none listed are ideal, IMO. I'm guessing either the St. Croix ML or the Fenwick might work best of those listed. ML is usually the way to go, but some M will work if they are to the softer side of their rating. X-fast, if you are using braid and small hooks is a delight to fish with, but you will lose more fish than a F or mod-F blank. Otherwise, reel doesn't matter that much, and dropping to 10 lb. braid from your current 20# as you suggest would be good. I'd also bump up to 8# leader instead of 6# if water clarity won't be an issue. My current set-up, and what I've been using exclusively for the past couple years is a 6'6" ML Shimano Clarus ($80) with 10# or 14# pound YGK SS112 (yellow) and an 8# mono leader. Previously I used 8# Power Pro, and it is great for the money, but the YGK simply fishes/handles a little better. I've tried about 8 or 10 different rods over the years, but haven't found anything that fishes better than the Clarus. The version I'm fishing is Gen 1. They still make the Clarus, but the newer version (Gen 2) is slightly different. I just bought one this week after unsuccessfully trying to find a new/used Gen 1 version rod for the past couple months. You can find them online right now on sale for $52 with free shipping - for that price, there isn't another rod that can touch it for this application if it fishes anything close to similar to the Gen 1 (IMHO). My second all time favorite is a Loomis 2 power popping rod (G3), so that will give you an idea of the action/curve I like for Ned. Keep in mind I'm using the traditional small open hook jig heads (#2-#6 hooks, 1/32-1/10 oz wts.) for all my Ned fishing. You can get by with a little heavier/faster rods for a lot of the non-traditional Ned stuff that is popular now - bigger hooks, heavier heads, bigger baits, EWG weedless stuff, etc. It probably would even be preferential in those instances, but I only dabble a bit in that regard.

My view from one of the trips last week. Snow on the ground this morning with 20 mph winds, but hope to be back after them sometime next week once this passes.

Mon-Wed we had 3 consecutive days in the 60s, so I had to take advantage (some snow in the forecast overnight and tomorrow). Decided to chase crappie with a friend on Mon and Wed. (alt. boat share) and went solo on Tues. I ended the 3 days with 357 crappie total, about 425 in all if you add in my friends totals. Nearly perfect weather, and great company on the water. Will start thinking about bass and walleye more now that the remaining extended weather will mostly be crap from here on out - lol. Water still in the low 50s, so we should have a little bit of time left on open water.

That basically sums it up here in Indiana. Non-nav = don’t touch bottom or walk in, but OK to float through. That said, you potentially can get all kinds of scenarios (confrontations) when you throw in unknowledgeable land owners and/or local/county law enforcement. In some cases you just have to walk away and leave, even if you know you’re right.

Yeah, no issues there. Nylon mono is 1.15, and YGK is 1.12, so they match up well. After years of experimenting, I’ve found no need to use fluoro as a leader in most finesse situations (deep winter finesse/crappie presentations might be the one main exception).

“False spawns” are very rare. Instead, what you are seeing is the normal reproductive development curve in female fish (bass, perch, crappie, etc.). Females typically start redeveloping eggs in November in most parts of the country, but those eggs won’t fully develop or mature until spring, when they actually spawn. What you see are the visible signs (eggs), but what you don't see are the hormonal levels of certain reproductive compounds/hormones that don’t actually increase and play a role in successful reproduction until much later (winter/spring). These eggs will simply be carried throughout the winter, and development will increase substantially closer to spawn. The timeline varies between species, too. You mentioned perch. They are one of the earliest spawning fish, so they’re eggs will develop faster than a bass’, which usually spawn a month or two later.

Exactly - wasn’t in reference to you at all, just a general observation based on comments, articles and videos of all things Ned that are now flooding the media distribution channels.

I get the impression many people think the 6 retrieve styles of Midwest Finesse are a little hokey, or gimmicky, or you just do whatever you see on some ‘new to the party’ YouTuber video and you’ll be fine, but they are there for a reason ? As my geometry teacher always said, “That do make a difference.”

Definitely keep 'em - clean em up, put on some new hardware, probably short shank #6 trebles, and fish them. I have no doubt they'll still catch bass. Probably either size 2 or 3 on the split rings depending on brand.

I tend to oversimplify soft plastics, but it works for me. So I go with either long and skinny or short and fat - which in my mind translates to either a baitfish profile or a crawfish profile. So a worm or a creature/craw. I have a couple favorites in each, in just a few colors, and that's what I roll with. Don't need hundreds to figure out they're either biting one or the other; and if they aren't biting either, that's fine, too - I'll throw something else instead of wasting all my time trying to fine-tune some weird daily/lake preference.

Jason Lucas, 1947 Chapter XIX; The Fine-Line Caster "The beginner at bass fishing, and the man who gets to fish only occasionally, might as well skip this chapter, for it will not concern him: it is addressed only to those who fish a good deal all through the season, and so can hope to refine their tackle and methods to the utmost possible. How much must a man fish before he can think of getting down to the lightest tackle?" I have studied this subject quite a bit, and there is no simple answer in terms of who to consider the Godfather of what we consider finesse fishing for bass now days. The answer of who coined the term "finesse" is a bit easier to answer, though. The above example is one of the earliest references to using light tackle (spin or casting) specifically for bass, an entire chapter dedicated to it in his (Jason Lucas') book, "Lucas on Bass Fishing." Another very early example from someone who is considered a bass fishing pioneer (historically speaking), came from Robert Page Lincoln's 1952 book, "Black Bass Fishing," and the chapter titled, "THE GENTLE ART OF SPINNNING." Billy Westmoreland's name was brought up, and I have found newspaper articles dating back to 1958 mentioning the Hoss Fly, which means he was using light tackle to fish the bait at least that long ago. In fact, some of the articles even picture large trout being caught on Hoss Fly's, and Billy would later go on to become renowned for his prowess with hair jigs for smallmouth. He could certainly be considered the Godfather in that specific sense (hair jig smallies in clear highland impoundments). Also in the 1950s and 1960s, the Ozark greats enter the discussion, and where you pick up guys like Guido, Ned, Ray Finke, Drew Reese and Chuck Woods, and see the birth of things like the Beetle (Spin) and the Puddle Jumper. That time frame is also where you can peg the start of marabou jigs, Bass Buster and Virgil Ward. In 1966, Bill Binkelman penned what might be considered the first treatise on light line fishing exclusively with the publishing of "Nightcrawler Secrets." Though it was specifically a live bait technique, it's focus was on using the smallest hooks, the lightest split shot, and 4 to 6 pound line for trophy bass and walleye. He was centered in the upper Midwest, Milwaukee to be exact, and was the guy who created Fishing Facts magazine. Back in December 1963 when he started it, it was originally called Boston Store Fishing News and Wisconsin Spoonplugger. The late 1960s was when Charlie Brewer developed Slider Fishing. It didn't really catch on until the first articles he was asked to write on the method appeared in Fishing Facts back in 1971/1972. This is where we can also peg the term "finesse" to bass fishing, as he and another gentleman, Charlie Ritchie of Texas, both wrote articles on Slider fishing for bass using Charlies lures and first applying the term "finesse" in print to the technique. According to Charlie Jr., "The name 'Finesse Fishing' came about because Charlie Sr. was forced to play Bridge with his wife of 56 years, and it was a term that applied to their card game and he applied it to fishing." The term 'Finesse' in bridge goes back to the 1930s, so this makes sense. As WRB mentioned, this is also the time that Dick Trask and Don Iovino were doing their light line specialty fishing out West, split shotting and deep doodling. To the best of my knowledge though, they didn't refer to what they were doing as 'finesse fishing', at least not quite as early as Charlie, and I've been privy to a few conversations with Ned and George Kramer, noted Western fishing author. So, in summary, I can't really peg a specific person with creating finesse fishing and being the Godfather, though I have mentioned the most prominent names, but I would hang my hat on Charlie at this point as being the person who coined the term first to his Slider bass fishing as being "finesse," at least until someone can come up with something definitive showing otherwise.

To add to the above, and just my experience and recollection, I believe the original sought after ones were from the 80s and their unique feature was the rear hook hanger was a screw in eye (“screw tails”). They were one of the earliest predecessor to today's wakebaits, and rumor is the plastic was different then. We would dip them in boiling water and you could get the plastic to swell a bit without cracking or busting the seams. This made them more buoyant, and with a few other mods and the right tackle/retrieve, they would wake the surface instead of diving under. The old jointed Redfins were also sought after for similar reasons and technique.

After more than 2 inches of rain over the past 48 hours, I was greeted to blue skies, a stiff north breeze, and water temps that are now down to 60 degrees, give or take a degree or two. Needless to say, the water in this reservoir was "well stained" where I launched on the lower end, and approaching "muddy" by the time I hit midlake. That was as far up as I went, and fished my way back down into the somewhat clearer sections. Picked off 60 crappie and half a dozen bass in just a few hours, and the light boat traffic and fall colors made for an enjoyable afternoon. Shallow cranks were the ticket for the bass. Nothing on a spinnerbait today.

Seems like we’re always revisiting this subject, but the answer never changes. Tatsu if you can manage/justify the expense, and InvizX if you can’t. End of story - you’ll cover 90% of your fluoro needs with those two lines.

This ^^ Remember, it was late October on Guntersville when Elias brought the bait to everyone’s attention, and it won events week after week, through all of fall and into winter. Starting to just see guys pulling them out here. It’s about to go down.

Yesterday we were running 66-67, down from the low 70s the week before. We have had very little cold weather, so we are running above normal for this time of year.

More spinnerbait bass (Accent) on mono from the local reservoir yesterday...and I was able to crop out the holey jeans so I don't offend anyone Cold front coming through over the next 24 hours should make the bite better once water cools a bit more.

My understanding is that the ZinkerZ and Zeros are both about 45% salt content. That is what is required to get a decent sink rate from the Elaztech material. It actually takes about 40% to get it to start sinking. For comparison sake, a Senko is about 35% salt by weight, but it is in a traditional PVC matrix that is already heavier than water to begin with, so it requires less, but combined with the salt, sinks faster.

You’d be surprised by how much flack I catch from friends about the jeans ? Really surprises me. A couple guys even threatened to start a Go Fund Me page last week to try and get me a new pair. It’s all so confusing, as two of my young nieces stopped by to visit over the weekend and their jeans were torn with holes, too - and they paid good money to buy them that way - LMAO. Here I just thought I was being fashionable and “hip” ?

Why even entertain the idea? The mental gymnastics of fishing the line knowing you’re sitting on a 3 lb “cushion” that may or may not exist every time you set the hook would be hell. Short answer - I had both tests; they both broke randomly. Avoid the line ?

I have a cedar plaque with that quote on it I bought from a gift shop at Lake of the Ozarks over 40 years ago - lol.