Way2slow

I have spent close to $1,000 on buying SS props and having them custom tuned for my boats, but that's about as deep and my pockets would let me go. Those kinds of accessories are for people that can spend thousands of dollars and think nothing of it, I start having to weigh my options when I'm even looking at spending one thousand. Like the new wave of live scan sonars, would luv to have one, but never will. Hard to rationalize spending that kind of money just to catch a couple extra fish.

A large TM will make the boat run about the same speed as a 2.5, the big advantage is the gas motor is a whole lot lighter and you don't have to worry about the battery going dead after 30 minutes of full speed. It beats the hell out of paddling, but don't expect to get there in a hurry. I have a 4hp Merc I used on my 17' canoe. Now that can get scarry if you try to turn at WOT.

A release agent is something to keep the adhesive you are using from sticking to something you don't want to stick to and make it a permanent part of the repair. For instance, you are glass bedding a rifle barrel and action into the stock. You use Devcon as the bedding compound and press the barrel and action into it so if makes a perfect matting surface for the for them. However, after the Devcon cures you normally want to be able to remove it. Without some type of a good release agent, you will have just made the barreled action a permanent part of the stock, basically a one-piece rifle. Johnson's Paste Wax has been my go-to agent for many years but I can't recommend that for you because, they quite making it in 2021. So, unless you can find some old stock or happen to have some laying around, that's not an option. There several options, even commercially made but since I've never used anything but Johnson's Paste Wax, I can't recommend one. Anytime messing with epoxy resins or any of the bonding agents like them, it's always wise to apply a release agent you don't won't the adhesive to turn two parts into one. When installing an insert, it just pays you to use a Q-tip to apply a release agent on the inner threads so any adhesive used that happens to get on the inner part can be remove easily. The last thing you want to do is have to use a tap in you brand new insert to remove any stray resin that happen to get in there. There is such a thing as putting too much, which most people seem to do with their first few attempts or not putting enough and having the insert turn loose. Putting too much it gets pushed to the bottom of the hole and them back up into the inner threads. When it does this, it's extremely hard to get it all out so it does not leave a film that binds the new bolt when you try to screw it in. With a good release agent, it won't bond and "Normally" let you clean it out. As for using JB Weld, I don't have much experience with it and have never used it for this kind of repair. Devon and other specially products to do the job made for what I want is what I usually use. Never got into using do-all products to make critical repairs.

I think a threaded insert is going to be your best option for repair if you have destroyed most of the metal in the upper part of the hole. If insert feels loose or you don't think there's enough holding it. get you one of those thread repair kits I posted the link to above. I know it's expensive, but it's a lot cheaper than a lower unit. Don't use a release agent on outside of the insert, but do put some on the inside, just in case you get some on the inside threads, you do not want to do that. I've done this a few times with Devcon but Devcon is super expensive now. Let that cure the specified times and if done right, it will hold just fine. If you do try to go back with a heli-coil, use red Loctite on the thread you cut to screw it into, just don't put so much it gets all over the inside part of the thread. It only takes "ONE DROP" and spread it around a little, the insert will take it on down into the hole as you screw it in.

You should be able to take something like a hardened scribe (probably not one of those Harbor Freight junks) or similar that has a long sharp end on it and slowly tap it between the broken bolt piece and the aluminum housing and get it started pulling loose from the wall of the hole. Once you get if separating you can keep working it and eventually get it out. It will take time and patience, if you try too hard or get frustrated it's just going to lead to more problems.

I have to say, it sounds like you really botched the first repair attempt, especially if you tried to put a heli-coil in with part of the broken bolt still in there. You should have never tried that. I'm going to give you a little broken screw 101. First using a sharp center punch try to get and starting point as near center of the broken screw as possible. Using a sharp, 1/8" drill bit, drill a pilot hole as near center as possible. Start slowly and angle the drill as needed to get the bit in the center. Use max drill speed and light pressure as you drill the center straight down, If you use slow speed, the bit might bite into the metal and break the bit off in the hole. If the bolt is has work hardened, you might have to use a slower speed on the bit to get it to cut, just be extremely careful if you do. Getting that broken bit out will open another whole bucket of worms because it's too hard to drill so has to be broken out. Once you get your pilot hole, being careful to feel when it goes through the bolt, and you don't drill all the way through into the lower unit. Now you want to go up to the next larger bit and start making the hole bigger, still angling the drill as you first start to help work it toward the center of the broke bolt. Once you get the hole large enough you can start seeing the threads on the bolt, us a small, pointed punch and start working it between the aluminum hole and the steel bolt, breaking, crushing the bolt into the hole. There are easy-outs you can try once you get close but not those spiral tapered, they only make it tighter at the top, it has to be a straight shank, again, be extremely careful doing that because you can break the easy-out off and back to the same problem of trying to break it up to get it out. Unless there is a fair amount of good metal below where you have already botched that hole, you WILL NOT be able to use heli-coil to install the factory size bolt back in. That's why I said you might be able to install an insert, they require a little larger hole that a heli-coil and you might have enough metal left to hold one of those. The only option for a heli-coil is going to be using one larger than the factory size. Your heli-coil options are probably going to be a #16 or #18 machine screw if you can find one or something in a metric that is just a little larger and drill the pump housing out a little. I doubt you have enough metal to go as large as and 5/16" bolt. That's why I said and insert is probably your best option if there is not enough metal left below what you have screwed up. If by some chance there is enough, then do the heli-coil deeper and use a longer bolt. Just be care you don't drill through into the gear case. If by chance you do, don't fret it too bad, just make sure you put a dab of silicon in the hole before you install the bolt to seal it. If all else fails, you can just drill the OEM hole deeper, getting below all the botched hole junk, using the water pump housing and plate as a guide. If you do, make sure you go a little at the time with grease on the #7 drill bit to catch the metal shavings, so they don't go into the gear case. Tap it to the with a 1/4-20 tap, if that's the size of yours, again, keeping grease on it to catch the shavings. Then just use a longer bolt. Let me say, I've never done that with an OMC gear case, so I don't know how much metal is below the OEM hole and there might not be enough to get a useable length of threads. So you are on your own if you try that one. I've never use this but I know a couple of people that say it saved their butt, so might be worth trying if you see no other options. Loctite Stripped Thread Repair Kit, 12.9mL, Gray Form-A-Thread 236382 | Zoro Like I said, there are tons of ways to repair it but I have done this crap for most of my 77 years so I have a little more experience on how to fix an "O-Sh**!"

The are a number of ways you can fix your current problem. My first thought and easiest is just to file out the holes in the plate and cover to match the miss aligned screw hole. If you have enough metal left at the edges, you can take that heli-coil out, make a guide plate to correctly hold the a drill bit in alignment, drill the hole slightly larger an install a brass or stainless-steel threaded insert. There are other ways but would require things you don't have. TIG welding the hole and just drill and tap it back out is one, but that requires someone than really know how to TIG weld. One other thing, I know it's a little late now but when you are trying to do something like you were doing. Bolt the housing back on and use it for a drill guide. Learning how to take a corroded bolt is an essential skill if you work on these things, especially if it has ever been in salt water. Never trying to break a corroded bolt loose by just applying wrench pressure, it will probably break every time. You will use a lot of back-and-forth pressure and a lot of tapping with a hammer. When you get it to move enough to get a gap under the head. Keep it saturated with Klotz of PB blaster and let it soak a while.

I would not even consider the 78 motor. I think it even has a different bolt pattern to mount it. Also, that 85 hp is rated off the flywheel so it's really only a 60 - 70 hp using the current rating standards. I would check locally for a used LU. The problem I have is I have been out of this for a while and don't have a lot of experience with V-4 cross flows but I think they have the small and a different gear ratio so you might be stuck with find one of those. V-6 loopers I have several good LU's but never did much with the cross flows. Finding one locally makes life simpler if you happen to get a bad one. As for buying a used one, I would have no problem provided it's a fresh water unit. Don't even consider one that was used in salt water. They are easy to recognize by the corrosion.

Too bad you are not closer to Macon Ga. I have a 17' Stratos I'm about to dispose of that has a good trailer under it, but two new tires and the round trip would probably cost more than the trailers worth.

Weight wise, a single axle is all you need. A tandem axle tows better and offers more security against getting stranded on the side of the road from a bearing, hub or tire failure. If you have a breakdown, you can just take the wheel off, tie the axle up if it hangs too low and go on your way. With a single axle, you are there until a roll back comes and hauls it away or you can get it repaired.

I generally used a mechanical contact tac to check the mounted one and rarely ran into one the was more than a few RPM off (back when they made things in the USA). I guess I've been out of this stuff too long and the Dumb**s for trying to help since I guess the Chinese don't know how to make accurate tac's, since that's where everything seems to come from these days. So, ya'll have a good day, since I don't seem to know what I'm talking about, I will keep my 2cents worth to myself.

Too bad it's not a Go-Fast boat with an OMC motor. I've got all kinds of custom tuned three and four blade SS props for those, but they only go down to 24" pitch. My first 70+ mph bass boat was in the early 80's, a 15' ProCraft with a 200 on it. I had race boats that ran faster but not a fishing boat. Bought the boat with an 85 that needed rebuilt, (it was only rated for 85) had a modified 200 sitting there ready to go but doing nothing so said, "Why Not". Don't remember having one that would not run in the high 70's, mid 80's and one that ran in the low 90's since then. Even my Javelin Renegade 20DC ran 82 with two people and gear with one of my modified motors on it. Stepped out of that three years ago into a 22mph 24' pontoon boat, talk about an attitude adjustment. Used to be, there were not that many choices to make on props, and it was easy to find someone that had a similar setup and swap props just to see how they performed. Now days that doesn't seem like a very viable option, tons of different boat designs, motor designs and prop designs. Then add the fact that people just don't seem to be as obliging as the used to be. I used to always say there's an AH in every crowd. Now I say you are lucky to find someone that is not one. Back to the prop situation. Start with getting the known good, basic information together, and I'm pretty sure we can walk you through diagnosing the problem. I'm a firm believer in not just throwing parts and money at a problem. Start from a known good point, and work into the unknown a step at the time and you will be surprised how easy it can be. Now, applying a cure might not be so easy but diagnosing the problem should be.

A tachometer and the GPS in his sonar (assuming he has that since most do these days) is more than accurate enough. If by chance he is depending on a water pressure mounted speedometer, hell he might be running 40 and just don't know it. Diagnostics usually tells what percent of time it has operated in different rpm bands, not the exact rpm it's turning at WOT running down the lake. Like I say, start with the facts first. Get a good RPM reading and GPS speed reading with it trimmed out perfectly. While doing this, pay attention to where the spray is coming out of the side of the boat. Run these numbers on a prop slip calculator and see what you get. Also, pay attention to the sound of the motor while trimming it out. Make sure you can over trim it. You should be able to hear the motor change sound and a lot of times you can feel it in the steering wheel because it will start cavitating the prop. If you can't over trim the motor, that's the rabbit you need to chase first. Getting the spray coming out behind the driver's seat is the next one if it's not doing that.

I was thinking around 17" pitch and 13.5 would be close, but that gear ratio is going to make it fairly sensitive to weight and how well it gets out of the hole. I have a feeling if you unload it, taking out a lot of the weight, you should see a rather significant increase in top speed. If you have a lot of weight in the bow, that's a speed killer because it has to be able to get the bow up or the hull will be running too wet and creating tons of drag.

Since I've not run Black motors since the late 60's I've been doing a little research and have come to the conclusion, as for what prop you need, I don't have a clue. I had all these preconceived ideas on what I would probably start with, but after doing some research on Merc's, I'm totally wet behind the ears and would only lead you down the wrong path. The first kicker is the gear ratio of your lower unit being 2:0? something, I've never dealt with one that tall. I'm used to 2:7 and 2:8. Then looking at their props, they only have a couple that would even begin to work with your motor, and neither of those looked like something I would want to run. I was thinking you would probably need something like a 17" pitch but with that gear ratio, that's going to be a lot, and looking at Merc's, that would be over 14" diameter, and I don't think that would work. So, before I lead you down a blind hole, I'm gonna have to say I don't have a clue on what to recommend for something to start with. Just don't have the experience with anything close to what you have. Four Stroke motor; I'm a two stroke guy Tin boat, I'm a fiberglass, riser hull guy 2:0 lower unit, I've run 1:1 turning close to 10,000 rpm and 2:8, not even close to 2:0

One more thing I should remind you of. You are moving into summertime and as the water gets warmer the slip is going to be greater, so the rpm is going up a little and the speed is going down so remember that as you start troubleshooting. Given a choice between 200 rpm below max and 100-200rpm over max, I always go for the over max rpm.

Well, props have always puzzled me. A person will fork down thousands of dollars on a new boat and motor. The ONLY thing that's applying that motors power to the water and how it's going to react with the hull is the prop. Then because a good prop can be several hundreds of dollars, they buy a cheap**s aluminum prop.

I'm not sure in your situation I would opt for the four blade over a three-blade prop. On most bass boat hulls, I prefer a higher rake three blade SS prop. There are high rake four blade props that perform pretty well and some even like something like the High Five, but if the setup is right, I generally get better all-around performance from a high rake three blade. However, the trick to that is being able to get bow lift. I have to admit though, I have little experience with aluminum hulls. Glass boats with riser hulls are a totally different animal than what a tin boat has. Aluminum hulls generally have a lot of flex so you get a lot of cupping affect that creates a lot more drag and they tend to run very wet in the first place. That makes them very sensitive to weight and weight distribution so it's very easy to overload the hull with a Large TM on the bow, several heavy batteries and then if you have other accessories like Power Poles etc, it becomes extremely difficult to get the bow lift you need for good speed. A good setup is going to have the water spray coming out behind the diver's seat. If you have it coming out in front of the console, you are running too bow heavy, or just too heavy all together. If that is the case, you might want to take as much weight out of the boat as you can. Just the cranking battery, empty live well and even the TM off the bow if that's not a major challenge. If this does not put the spray behind the drives seat, you have a significant setup problem to work out, or totally the wrong prop. A prop with more rake will help lift the bow, and deep cup will help lift the stern, helping lift the boat out of the water. Just remember, watch the tach, because as the speed increases so will the rpm and you don't want to get more than 100-200 more than the max rated rpm . Once you get that worked out, and have good lift, start putting it back together and trying it with each item added. they you can see what and where the problem is.

I live by the old saying "Believe half what you see and nothing of what you hear". I'm not saying a bass fisherman would lie but a whole lot of them seem to stretch the truth about the fish they caught and performance of their boat, A LOT! I will also say, 32mph for that boat does seem a little slow, but I think 40 is a bit of an exaggeration with a fishing load in it. So here's some things you might want to check. First get an accurate RPM reading with the boat at WOT and trimmed to perfection. Find the gear ratio for you lower unit and the size/pitch prop you have now. Also inspect the prop for dings and bent blades. It's very easy to roll the leading edge and not notice it. Also note, the RPM should be close to the recommended max for that motor, or it may be over propped and damaged. Find a good online prop slip calculator and fill in the blanks and get the percentage prop slip. An average setup should be 11 to 13%. Below that is high-performance, go-fast boats. much above that and you start getting into barges, but I have seen some as high as 18%, before working on them. Now, if the slippage is ok, and the rpm is up where it's supposed to be, then I would start looking at the motor's performance because it's highly likely it's down some. The first thing I would look at then would be to make sure the throttle is fully opening. I have seen tons of low performance problems being as simple as the throttle cable needing adjusting. This is as far as I can take you on checking your motor, I know diddly squat about your motor, so other than doing a compression test, I would not know anything about where you need to go from there.

Let me also ask, how bad do you want a little more speed. More speed is usually gained with a little different weight distribution, engine height, engine setback and a prop properly matched to the hull. One your boat, you might gain a few more MPH, perfecting the setup, but you can easily spend $1,000 doing it. It's not like you have a hydro-rocket to start with some more speed is not going to come cheaply.

Actually, props are very complicated and not many average boat owners really understand them. In the simple explanation, changing pitch is like changing the gear ratio so it's a tradeoff for what you want. As you go down in pitch, the boat launches harder and gets on plane easier but the RPM increases, and at WOT can be too small and to overrev the engine. As you go up in pitch, the boat launches slower and may run a little faster, but does not turn as many RPMs, so you generally want to prop one so with your normal load, live well full, gas in tank passenger and gear the motor turns within a couple hundred RPM of the manufactures max rating. Three blade VS four blade. Because of the drag created by extra blade surface, the four blade props tend to be a couple MPH slower than the same pitch in a three blade. For heaver boats and underpowered boats, the four blade props tend to give a better hole shot because of that extra surface reduces slip. Because of the thinner blades and stranger material, Stainless props usually outperform aluminum props because the thinner blades cut the water better and the stronger metal does not flex back as much, creating a lot less slip. Then you get into the technical aspects of rake, blade shape and cupping. I'm not goig to begin to try explaining all that but will just say you have to pick the prop that best matches what you hull design likes. This is why you DO NOT try saving a dollar and order props online. Find a reputable dealer that has a try before you buy policy and knows props. As long as you don't damage the prop in any way and just make a short test run, the let you try one, as long as you DO plan to buy one from him when you get the best match. In general, most people opt for the three-blade aluminum in a pitch that satisfies their needs because that's the cheapest way you can go. A properly matched SS prop can be expensive. If you have a larger faster bass boat, and want max performance you order a custom tuned prop. I never ran stock props on mine. One thing I forgot to mention, don't think you can just go to a higher pitch prop to get more speed, it don't work that way. Once you start loading the motor more and dropping the RPM and it comes out of it's peak power band, you can actually loose a lot of speed versus what a smaller pitch prop was giving you. Also, the cupping of the blades have a lot to do with the RPM.

It's kinda like the old saying, beating a dead horse. The seams bust the thread because the UV light has destroyed it, same reason the vinyl starts to crack and split. I have repaired bunches over the years, but not with no repair kit. I've restored boats and cars most of my life and have a Consew 255 commercial, walking foot sewing machine and order new UV protected thread and Marine Vinyl and replace all of it. That only requires one repair and usually less than $200. Five yards of vinyl, five yards of sew foam and one medium spool of thread will cover both pedestal seats and the console seats. You can take it to an upholstery shop and if he only cares about the dollars he will make and it's just the thread breaking apart, and not the vinyl ripping at the seam, he can restitch it. If he's straight up with you, he will tell you he can do that, but it won't last very long because the vinyl will probably start ripping at the seam in no time. Granted, I doubt you have a commercial sewing machine, so you are at the mercy of an upholstery shop, but the only way to fix it once and be done is to recover them.

That's simple, only buy what you think you are going to burn that trip or within a month. By the way, filling the tank for storage is not a good idea, that only leaves you with a whole tank full of bad gas to dispose of. That filling the tank for storage is from the old metal tank days where they were subject to extreme condensation build up if there was exposed metal. Back before the ethanol gasolines, the military required adding SeaFoam to the tanks of vehicles not regularly driven. They claimed that would keep it usable for a year. Since I've been retired since 1996, I don't know if they still claim that with the junk we have now, but I didn't even trust that philosophy then for use in my POV's and boats.

Understand, ethanol fuels and the gasolines we buy today are junk, there is no disputing that fact. However, when proper maintenance and storage procedures are followed, I've never seen where there are any more issues with them than the old non ethanol gasolines of the past. The problem with them is you MUST follow those procedures and very few people know or are willing to follow the proper storage procedures and that's where ethanol fuels get their bad rap. Left to sit and evaporate or break down in the fuel system they can and will wreak havoc on the whole fuel system. Today's gasoline does not like the be stored, and the warmer the temperature and the more the exposure to elements, the worse things get. That's why I remove the gasoline and purge the fuel system on my boats if going to be left sitting for a couple of months or more. I have a log splitter I might use once a year that has a 10hp B&S engine and there is really no practical way to properly purge the fuel system. I just keep one of those $15 ebay carbonators on hand and so when I go to use it, I put a new carb on it before I even try to start it. I used to try running it once a month like I do my chain saws and other gas-powered tools but decided it's easier to just replace the carb. Trying to clean it is usually useless it's in such bad shape.

Wow, Bankc actually knows his stuff about these things. As I mentioned, if you are using Teir 1 gasoline all this voodoo magic stuff you put in the tank everytime you buy gas is wasted money, but if you feel it's needed, and you feel better about using it, go for it. An OEM stock motor designed to burn 87 octane should only be run on 87 octane. As you increase octane, the burn time increase, (it burns slower) which as mentioned reduces performance and increases carbon build up (which happens to be the number one killer of two stroke engines) because it reduces combustion temperature. I say number one, it's probably a toss-up between carbon buildup and bad gas. If you have modified your engine so the compression is over 130 psi, then you want to look at increasing the octane and maybe the timing some, but otherwise, don't think you are doing your engine a favor by running higher octane in 87 octane engines. Run fresh, Tier 1 gasoline recommended by the manufacture and your engine will be happy. If that don't make you happy, then run what does. A little background on my experience with two strokes and outboards. I built my first two stroke motor about 1960 on an old lawn mower. In 62 to 65 I was racing and modifying McCulloch Mac-8 and Mac-10 go cart engines. In 67 to 73 I was racing an modifying outboard. I got out of outboard racing but still built and modified engines for others. In the late 90's I got into mostly just modifying OMC 3.0 200/225 engines. My thing was taking those engines and getting 300+hp and almost 300 lbs of torque so they would launch a heavy bass boat like it was shot out of a cannon and run faster than most people had the nerve to drive one. I don't know much about four stroke outboards, because I got out of them about the time, they were getting popular but don't have a clue how many automobile engines I have built and modified for racing. A million hours using die grinders in outboard motors and automotive cylinder heads pretty much destroyed my hands is the reason I'm not messing with them much now.