MediumMouthBass

"ItS nOt A dAiWa Or ShImAnO" These 2 brands have taken over and everything else is slowly dwindling away. Even Lews and Abu have lost alot of popularity, more so Abu though. Between lack of investors, lack of additional funding, lack of sales and with the covid and post covid economy how are they supposed to take what little sales they have and spend a fortune on marketing, new production, revamping the brand to get popularity? Ive been fishing since i was a few years old, only ever heard of Quantum when i went into a Walmart/DSG and saw their cheap spinning reels on the shelf. Between no one i knew having them or even talking about them, paired with the 0 ads, marketing, youtube influencers i had no idea they actually made casting reels, let alone good ones. Most people i talk to that are my age that fish dont even know who they are. The old school guys that grew up watching tournaments know who Quantum is but that was decades ago, recently what have they done? Atleast Lews is hitting the youtube influencers hard. Somehow they are selling a ton of those cheap garbage plastic framed Mach series reels, because they know who to market their brand to. Awhile ago i was seriously considering buying a really nice Quantum reel at a insane discount, but i held off on it because i wasnt sure if they went under there would be parts or a warranty left. It would be nice if they made a comeback, they would have 0 chance against the main 2, but they would do good against the rest. But like everything in this world, you have to have the money and the right people.

I have 23 casting reels at the moment, ive used all. Only had an issue with these 3 and these 3 only. Im not the best when it comes to accuracy, but for ease of cast and distance im very good with most reels. However i wasnt very good 2 years ago, i was always trying to hard to cast and put in too much effort and some reels really didnt like that. Ive since then trained myself to try a more gentle and free flowing movement throughout the cast and its been working well. Ive tried side arm roll casts, side casts, overhead casts, tried really slowing the motion down, or speeding it up, it doesnt make a difference with Tatula SV and Tatula 150. The Zillion only has issues with weightless soft plastics and skipping, put a 1/2oz lure on it and that thing flies farther than anything. But those 2 Tatulas cant go past 40-60' no matter what. Which is odd since my other 2 base model Tatulas are my main reels for getting distance easily. I would agree with this for the Zillion, but the Tatula 150 no matter what i do after 40' the lure just drops straight down, maybe too thick grease in the gears? The Tatula SV might be how i cast, its the first reel i bought with an SV spool and i cast it the same as every other reel. Ill have to try a few different things the next time on the water to see if it makes a difference. How are you guys casting your reels with SV spools to get good results?

Oddly enough my hands are average size, the 100 sized reels like the Tatulas, SLX's, and LFS models fit perfectly. The 150 or larger reels feel awful, the Zillion isnt bad but its not great either in size for me. Im on the fence about selling it, i thought about it for awhile but after taxes it would be a major loss. And in my journey of dozens upon dozens of casting reels i havent found one yet (until the Zillion) that will let me cast lipless cranks as far with 0 effort or backlash. I really prefer my Tatula CT for lipless cranks because it matches my Aird X rod in color (minus the gold) and it fits perfect, but the distance isnt as far. And i make lonnnnnnnng casts. Its comfort isnt pleasant but if it means i can cast how i like ive now convinved myself ill keep it and it will just be my primary lipless/chatterbait reel. Just a little upset it isnt on par with every other Zillion ive heard about..... Edit (maybe the reason i feel its smaller than most is the rods i use it with? The foam grips arent very thick)

3/4oz Chatterbait/Bladed jig, this will let you get out a bit farther and fish a deeper part of the water column. You can do a straight retrieve, yo yo, or even let it fall to the bottom and hop it back like a football jig. 1/2oz-3/4oz Lipless crankbait, Strike King Red Eye Shad, Berkley Warpig, Bill Lewis Rattle trap are all good ones. Again same retrieves as the above heavier Chatterbait, but let it fall deep before starting. 1/2oz, 3/4oz, and 1oz football jig, for how deep and clear that is try some elaztech trailers, the trailers will float off the bottom and give it a more life like action. Deep diving crankbaits and jerkbaits. Paddle tail swimbaits on a jighead, depending on where you think the bass will be you can either do 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2, 3/4. Nail weighted flukes, you can experiment with brands but the Yamamoto D shad and Strike King Caffeine Shad will fall faster so you can fish deeper. And since you are already catching them on ned rigs try going bigger and heavier, like 1/8-1/4 heads and the Big TRD. As well as a big single blade spinnerbait. Night time spinnerbaits would be great if you could fish there after dark. I would start by fishing a heavy football jig and dragging bottom, youll learn quickly where theres cover and get a better idea where to throw this or that.

I might just have to call it a quits on the Zillion for lighter baits and just move it to a rod where it can be a primary lipless cranking combo. Since thats what it excels at and what i use the most. And just take off the braided line from the SLX MGL and put on some lighter hybrid line and that will be my fluke combo. But for the Tatula SV and 150 im not sure what to do, since they cant even cast heavier stuff....

I tried Aird X M 7', Aird X MH 7'3" rod ratings for both 1/4-3/4 for M, 1/4-1 for MH. Both rods were able to fling the lipless crank for what felt like the farthest casts of my life. Ive tried the same rods with Caffeine Shads (flukes) and 5" Ochos (senkos) with the regular Tatulas and didnt have an issue with distance. I know the rods can load them, i was able to narrow down the issue to these 3 reels, Zillion, Tatula SV, Tatula 150. Somehow they all have the same problem. But the Zillion is the only one that can break through that barrier with heavier baits. But i have no idea what it is.

@bulldog1935 i appreciate the write up, however i dont think the BFS spool is what i need since the weightless soft plastics i would be using the most (Caffeine Shad) from what ive read weigh between 3/8-1/2oz. And for all the money i have into these reels, i really dont want to have to spend more money on additional spools. I was thinking about maybe using braided line to get more distance? But i put some on my SLX MGL 70 and i learned how much i dislike braid for anything other than fishing in grass.

Ive made several comments on here about my US 21 Zillion and Tatula SV TW and received quite a bit of backlash from them. They are just garbage for what i paid for them, and what others have said their experience with their reels has been. Both have sat on the shelf or in a box for the last few months because im not sure what to do with either, so i figured maybe you guys that are more experienced with Daiwa reels might be able to help, if not right for sale they go. First up the Tatula SV TW, ive tried several different rods, brands, actions, powers, lengths, etc.... It cant cast light baits or heavy baits far. Ive adjusted the so called "Zero Adjust", tried almost every brake setting too. I get about 20-40' tops (doesnt matter if im casting a weightless fluke or a 1/2oz aerodynamic lure). If i try really getting distance i might get to 60 feet but that will result in a backlash even with the thumb. Im very upset with this reel, but i love the way the reel feels and looks, so i put it on a heavy rod and its purpose is to cast buzzbaits. It does it well but id like it to be able to handle more than just that. (12lb Yo Zuri Hybrid line if it matters). Second on the list the highly praised 21 Zillion (US version however), i got it for the same price as the JDM ones just with a small factory blemish. I did alot of research on this reel, everyone loves them, except the really big Shimano guys that hate on Daiwa for any and all reasons. I waited for it to get lower and lower in price and bought it. From what i heard about the reel i decided it was going to be for my weightless soft plastics combo. I would rotate it from a medium-medium heavy rod depending on the brand fluke or senko. The size of the reel was not good, i have average sized hands and it felt like the worlds smallest reel. But if it let me skip and cast weightless baits a mile i could overlook that very easily. With anything heavier and more aerodynamic it was truly a phenomenal reel, but with a 1/2oz Warpig (lipless crank) i was beyond impressed. The ease of casting, and then the distance? I was able to cast 20' further with the Zillion then with my Tatula CT or Lews BB1 Pro, and those were my 2 farthest casting reels! But i didnt buy the reel for that, so i switched it over to a weightless senko and then a fluke. I was blown away with how poorly and awful it performed.... We are talking 20-40 feet at the furthest in distance, tried a medium and medium heavy rod, every spool tension and braking adjustment i possibly could. Nope. Switched to heavier Caffeine Shads, still awful. I actually backlashed it the first few times, but thats my fault. (i didnt thumb the spool, because if its an SV spool i thought i wouldnt have to). Then on to the skipping part, even worse. Again tried all the different adjustments and even with a thumb it would result in a backlash. Im not the best skipper, but i could do it just fine on the $30 Black Max using tape to make it a shallow spool.... (10lb Yo Zuri Hybrid on this reel) Really not sure what to do here, i know i will get called a liar because "how could a Daiwa ever not be perfect" but these arent the only ones. My Tatula 150 is the same, no matter the bait after 40-60 feet, thats it. Thats 3 Daiwas with the Same issue. Bought apart, from different places. 2 with SV spools one without. Not sure if these were made during Covid where every and any company no matter what industry had 0 quality control and used whatever parts they could find, or what? And i also know ill get called a Daiwa hater, well guess what? I love Daiwa, about the same as Shimano. But i have more Daiwa than anything else, i praise on here weekly about their Aird X rods, best rods money can buy in my opinion. I also talk about how much i enjoy using my 2 Tatula CT's and Fuego CT, along with my Revros reels. Do i like my Shimano reels? Absolutely. I like to be unbiased about brands because no 1 brand has everything i need, or want. If any of you can offer insight or ideas on what could be the issue with these reels i would greatly appreciate it, because i paid alot of money for them and really would love to use them, thank you.

The people making the Zillions and setting the so called "zero adjust" are factory workers trying to meet a monthly quota, not the engineers that came up with the idea. Many of us on here have had to adjust them plenty of times, myself included with the 2 i have.

I only carry 2-4 in my kayak unless fishing for bass and crappie, then its 3-6. In the Jon boat about 6 rods, but split for 2 people. But i leave the other 30 rods on the two boats i hire to follow me around.

If you dont mine me asking, how do you fish lipless cranks with the 6 speed? Is it more a yo yo, cast and reel back? Shallow water, deeper water? I fish lipless cranks more than anything but always in shallow grass filled water, so a fast yo yo technique is all i do. I use the higher speed reels only to take the slack out of the line before the hooks foul up. Ive been on the fence about starting to use lipless cranks in deeper water, that way of fishing them is new to me and anytime ive tried i feel like i cant get them deep enough because i reel to fast. I think maybe the 6 speed would benefit me with those deeper runs.

@Fishlegs beat me to it, and im not even upset because fishlegs is absolutely right. The Aird X whether casting or spinning would be amazing rods if they cost $100, but they dont, you can get them as low as $30-55. I am praising them here weekly. They arent beginner rods either, ive been fishing my whole life and had almost an unlimited budget when i got into bass fishing. I keep my several hundred rods at home and refuse to put my Aird X rods down. The Revros is a great reel if you want smooth, and color match. The Shimano Sienna is good too, but more budget oriented if you want to save a few bucks. With this combo you would be around $70-110 depending on sales. Gives you quite a bit of cash left for baits, tackle, and line. Biggest fish ive caught on an Aird X was 10lbs, that was a medium heavy though, i do believe even a medium would be able to handle it as long as its not in grass, and i keep my drag slightly loose. And i should add this, ive talked to people who landed catfish on ultralight rods as a bycatch. While they werent giants they were still able to land them. Its more about playing the fish as we say in fly fishing, (give and take).

Let us not forget how good the 5" Caffeine Shad on a Chatterbait, along with the 4" paired with a Mini Max are. Just a thought, anyone try these wacky rigged? Sounds stupid but i got to try it now.

I dont have any advice on those lakes, but what i do have to offer is this. Years ago i was in a similar place, but i was retired already and planned on buying a place in NY to be close to fishing and my family since they planned on moving up there as well, we were thinking for awhile maybe we would go in on the place together if it had two cabins or 2 small homes on it. I wouldve have been minutes from a world class river for Salmon, Lake Ontario, dozens of creeks, several ponds and lakes with great fishing. Phenomal ATV/UTV/dirt bike trails all throughout the county as well as a track that had events. The places i wanted to be were in the country almost, between 10-100 acre properties next to farmland or state game lands, but your 10 minutes from the city, stores, fast food, and dozens upon dozens of tackle shops. It was 100% set on moving to this area. The prices were much lower than most places in PA, although still higher than what they wouldve been years ago. Looked at several properties and homes for over a year, made a bunch of trips up there, found land that was nice to build on and was going to buy it, realtor said he would send us the documents to sign for it that night, then all of the sudden he informs us he sold it to someone else.... Good thing that happened, the land was considered a wetland, and you would have to tear down anything built. But guess what? You wouldnt be able to find that out unless you waited 2 months for some state office to call you back. learned that day from the phone call that most of the land in that county had water issues, some were deemed unbuildable, while others werent, but any time it would rain, there would be lots of problems.... And the wetland maps didnt show anything useful, i would have to call them anytime i wanted to know if a property was deemed wetlands. The realtor "knew" nothing of this, shocker. Also learned the taxes changed, people were now paying 10k in taxes a year for a small house on a few acres. And they planned on raising them even further. Now i know why everyone was leaving and was putting their homes and land for sale.... Then from talking to a really nice guy that did excavation work, part time fire fighter, etc... the crime was bad, the local economy looks good on paper from all the shops and seasonal tourists, but is actually hanging on by a thread, and most the surrounding areas are in poverty.... So my goals of going there are no more, now im semi retired with my own business, work a few hours a day, planning on "unretiring" myself and going back to work full time doing something i would love and make some money for my extreme car and motorcycle addiction. Not sure where to go from here, i have a few states and cities in mind but im young so theres no need for me to jump into anything immediately. Sorry for this long reply, but its point was that even if you find a place you love, hold yourself together and do more research on the area than you ever thought possible. Taxes, crime rates, local economy, flood and weather from past years, local environmental issues, taxes, taxes, and taxes.... You really have to know what you are jumping into, but you said you have about 5 years for this, that already puts you in a great spot, goodluck to you.

I guess these came out in the spring? Saw a fishing blog and some youtubers saying they really liked the rods they tried. Im interested to know the story behind the company. It seems its always the same brands that have dominated or existed for as long as i can remember, having some new people jump into the waters is interesting. Keep us updated on the rod please.

Thats not the reason people arent buying the reel there bud.... Why buy something for $375 if others have already stated one of the best reels money can buy at the time costs around $200? Some of you may know this, im very vocal on here that im ANTI ZILLION, i dislike mine very much. But even im backing the Zillion for this one. Most of us buy reels made overseas every day, i like the fact that Bates is based in America and plan to one day move manufacturing here. Thats admirable, and makes me want to support them. But the prices are ridiculous for most people, compared to whats on the market already. And its weight? Thats a niche reel, most guys dont care about weight, most just want something nice, reliable, smooth, but more importantly just to be on the water fishing. And the few people i know that do care about lighter reels, would rather buy a Daiwa, modify it and still come under in $$$$$. Like i said above, if they came out with a reel that was more geared towards multi purpose applications, and was somewhat priced accordingly compared to whats on the market i think most of the hold outs would pick one up to try it. I sure would.

My local shop, picked Bates reels up a bit ago. Corner display case full of them. They look really nice, and ive only heard good things about them so far. But the lack of transparency mentioned by @Tennessee Boy, then trying to deceptively claim they are a USA made reel, while only actually "designed in the USA" but made overseas from various sources. Pair that with the price that makes 0 sense. Im a little skeptical, as im sure others are. I personally dont like Zillions, i know they are great reels and all that, they just dont fit me. But if i did like them as most of the population do i would definitely buy a Zillion (proven reel) for around $200 before buying a reel for $375 surrounded in all that baggage, or whatever you want to call it. If they came in at around $150-175 i can see maybe more of them being sold.... I speak for most of America when saying this, id rather buy a Ferrari from Italy for 500k, than a Chevy truck (assembled overseas) for 1 million.

Drew Gregory helped Crescent design the kayak i have now. I love my Shoalie, the way they made it fits me and my needs 100%. I bought it for several reasons, the most being his walkthrough video of it talking about how he wanted it made to be minimalistic, simple, all while being able to handle rivers. Now the mans cruising around in a plastic boat. Wheres the live well?

My peak for numbers was 3 years ago, then they nuked the lake with chemicals and the bass must have hopped on bus and went somewhere else. My peak for giant bass was 2 years ago, this year they also used a chemical to treat this different large pond/small lake.... And its not just me, the guys on the bank, kayaks, and bass boats barely catch any bass or big bass at both lakes after they treated them. Very sad. Lake #2 used to be cast after cast 3-6lbs if you knew where to fish for them in spring. Now its spend all day fishing the whole place and if you catch one 2lber its like winning $1000. It took me a while to realize that my actual peak in bass fishing isnt how many i catch, nor how big of a pb i catch, its how much knowledge i learn each season, along with how happy fishing makes me. Ive learned to enjoy the days where just being on the water is more than enough.

Years ago i dont think it would be an issue, but today ticks are spreading like fire. Along with the diseases they carry. I have several family members who recently were diagnosed with tick borne illnesses.... In PA and ME the ticks are awful, its like an alien invasion. Heard from several people that when they take the dog walking in the city they come back and find several of them. The hunters i talked to a few weeks ago that are family friends say in the woods its even worse now. I never even heard or saw a tick when i was younger. And i spent most my life in the woods building trails and forts.

Never went hunting for deer, but know alot of people that do. Only thought of this the past week, are any of you concerned to eat deer meat since more than likely they have been bit by several ticks throughout their life? And if they have lymes disease? (Sorry if this is common knowledge)

DSG was clearing out Shimano SLX's, $40. Same DSG was closing their field and stream, all fly tying and fly fishing gear 75% off. 2 websites had gift card deals for certain products, i bought over $1000 worth of rods and reels and got over $1000 in cards. TW had a promo years ago, if you bought so many Daiwa Aird X rods they would get cheaper and cheaper to a certain extent. I am the proud owner of 14 Aird X rods, 10 of them came from that deal for $33 each. Midway had those St Croix deals where i bought a $275 rod and got $200 back. Got a USA Zillion for $220 taxed and shipped from them as well, unlike their JDM counterparts these MSRP at $375. There were dozens of sales where i bought alot of baits, line, and lures between 50-90% off as well. Ive got several hundred bags of soft plastics for about $1-2 per bag from Strike King, and the Elaztech brand (i guess their name is not good here?) One of the best sales though, was the Christmas Pure Fishing sale a few years ago. Some of you might remember how legendary it was. Most items were 50% off, but some discounts stacked where you could get up to 75%. All their brands, rods, reels, line, lures. They then started doing mass cancelations on unshipped orders..... These kinds of sales are gone now sadly. Its MSRP only with 20% off being considered good....

I chose to fish with rods that cost $50.... I still catch bass.... I fish ned rigs on spinning rods, and Texas rigs and jigs on casting rods. I dont use braid because retying leaders on a kayak is a nuisance, i use hybrid line. To me buying a rod for sensitivity matters as much as lifetime oil changes for an electric car, because for the small fraction of its price you could buy tungsten weights and braid.... Those will help quite alot if you really want to feel the bottom. I truly dont believe a rod that costs $300-500 or more will cause world peace. But time on the water, experience, braided line and tungsten weights, and knowing where you are fishing! And where the bass are. Now that, that will help you catch more bass. I bought some nice rods and few years ago, from Dobyns, Lews, St Croix. They have that extra sensitivity. Ranging from $110-275. Well guess what, i realized the reason i wasnt feeling bites was because i wasnt where the fish were. Personally if you are fishing from a boat or kayak id spend that money on a fish finder, i know they dont guarantee bass but youll learn where you are fishing and where their cover on the bottom is. However if moneys on the line (tournaments), or you just have the money and think its worth it Dobyns and St Croix have some really good rods out there now, theres a few from Daiwa and Falcon too. But youll have to understand even if you have the most sensitive rod ever made, thats only going to do so much.

All of them, Shimano, Abu, Lews, Daiwa from dirt cheap to the price of a monthly car payment. I hate new Abus, love the older ones. Love most of my Shimanos (SLX, SLX A, SLX MGL 70 especially. But i dislike the SLX XT, it looks nice, but casts very odd compared to the other Shimanos i have). Love my Daiwa Tatula CT's and Fuego CT (absolutely hate my Tatula 150, Tatula SV TW, and the most the Zillion....) If they didnt all come out of the box with issues i would probably love the 150 and Tat SV. But i cant stand the Zillion, for several reasons. The biggest one being i have average sized hands and i feel like im holding the worlds smallest reel, if it was closer to the Tatula CT frame size i would probably like it. I also dont like how smooth it is, but thats just me, i grew up with budget reels and ill always love a reel that i can actually feel when im turning the handle. Love all my Lews (BB1 Pro especially, Superduty LFS, Base LFS. Even my ultra cheap Classic Pro with a plastic frame, for what it cost is was a good upgrade from my Black Max and its gold accents match my Aird X rods). I fished these reels heavily, most either havent been cleaned or maybe just got a quick wipe down, i fish in clean water, and water that would make a swamp creature run in the other direction. To me no braking system is better or worse, just different. I have my brakes lower than most, but higher than the old school guys. Kind of like a hybrid inbetween. When im fishing i cant really even feel a difference between brands.... Im sure i could if i wanted to but im only focused on catching bass, and casting far when im on the water. Only difference that matters is how does a reel fit your hand? Does the reel fit the needs for what youll be fishing? Do you prefer certain colors or finishes on the reel? And do you want something that is meant for lighter baits? Heavy lures? Or both. And whats your budget? Heres my advice, from what ive read it seems you might be new to casting reels, so if thats correct then the Daiwa Tatula SV TW, and Zillion, have SV spools. SV spools are a great concept, you can cast lighter lures most reels struggle with and then go right to flipping heavy ounce jigs in the grass. All while assisting the user as much as possible by preventing backlashes. If you like Daiwa these would be for you, not only are they good for beginners but also for guys that are seasoned in casting reels. And if you like Shimano or want to save a few dollars the SLX MGL, MGL spools are the Shimano equivalent to Daiwas SV. Cast lighter farther, and easier all while being able to fish with the heavier baits. While making it easy to cast for beginners. But neither the SV or MGL spools are really required, learning to cast with these reels is challenging at first (talking about regular casting reels), but youll get the hang of it within a week. Theres plenty of help on here and Youtube. I started and learned on a $30 Black Max, with a minimal braking system compared to what i have now. It was frustrating at first, but because i learned on something that didnt assist me i can fish with any type of casting reel. Just a thought. But again make sure whatever reel you want to buy you actually like, go to a local tackle store and hold it first.

Early November and the smallmouth have already retreated? It must be really cold up there. Usually my local river is good through beginning of December, atleast for smallies and walleyes. But after that all the lakes, ponds, and rivers get too cold to fish. Recently (last few years) the ice is too thin to even try to ice fish, and the river has sheets of ice flying by constantly so i only have one way to fish and thats for creek trout. Not sure if you have creeks with trout in them, but by me fishing for them is what gets me through the winter.... Even on the coldest days parts of it only have ice around the edges of the bank, and those fish will still bite. Ill just have to run to the truck every 10 minutes to melt the ice off the rod tip.