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An Outdoor Guy

Need advice on casting

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I have a 7 foot, Medium / fast bait casting rod with a lews carbon blue speed spool, spooled up with 15lb seaguar red label. the rod says lure weight is 1/4oz-5/8ox.

I'm having trouble casting the 1/4oz lures. (rapala, jitterbugs, ect.) I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong? I keep getting backlashes. could I be "whipping" to hard on the cast? my reel is setup properly and so is my drag. I just cant get these light lure to go far without backlashing. any help is greatly appreciated!!

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There is a lot of difference between a 1/4 oz Rapala and 1/4 oz jig for example. The Rapala has a lot of wind resistance that slows the lure down in the air quickly, the jig doesn't. My point is weight isn't equal with lures, they cast differently. 

Your reel spool needs to slow down as the lure does or a backlash can occur. Today's anglers believe the breaking system can make the needed spool speed adjustments automatically, the proof they can't is your backlashes. You need to make inflight adjustments using your thumb to prevent the spool from over spinning the line. Slight spool tension adjustments along with slight spool smoothing of the line with your thumb and you can cast these different wind resistant lures effectively. Smaller diameter line helps like 8 lb verses 15 lb is nearly 30% smaller and easier to cast.

Tom

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are you new to baitcasters or do you suspect a mechanical issue?

are the brakes and tension set correctly? set the tension so if you release the 1/4oz bait with your rod parallel to the ground, it doesnt overrun when it hits the ground. 

drag should not matter.

tie on a 1/4oz sinker and head to the backyard or park. 

set the tension tight and make a few short casts, medium, long. release some tension and repeat.

start with dramatic sweeping casts and start whipping it when you fix the issue.

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My money is on the issue being the #15 red label. That suff handles very poorly.

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19 minutes ago, rippin-lips said:

The issue is the #15 red label. That line is the largest part of the problem. That suff handles very poorly.

This is a big part of the problem.  I've never used Red Label, but most 15# fluorocarbons are going to be fairly "springy" unless you use some line conditioner on it.  Most of my Medium power rods get an 8# mono or co-polymer.  As Tom said, 8# will cast those 1/4 oz. lures easier....especially since I get the impression you are relatively new to a baitcast reel.  I have a friend who can cast that light and lighter with 15# CXX, but he has been at it for awhile.  I am not familiar with that Lew's model, but most of today's reels will handle 1/4 oz. lures...even a 1/4 oz. Rapala.  But as Tom said....not all 1/4 oz. lures are created equal when it comes to casting them.

A light lure with that heavy line will require a harder cast to get much distance.  Hard casts when learning to use a baitcast reel is not something I would suggest for a newbie.  I suggest a lighter line and easy casts to start out.  Increase distance as your thumb gets more educated.  Good luck.  The Bait Monkey welcomes you to the world of baitcast reels.  :D

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Honestly I fish those really smaller lighter baits on a 6'6" spinning rod. I also have a 7 foot Okuma Reflections rod I had the but shortened on and now it works terrific. I load the reel with 14 pound Berkley Fireline original or fused. I tie on an 8 pound leader about 4 foot long and that works for me. Those wind resistant, light lures are tough with a baitcaster.

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well from what I'm getting so far I'm thinking its the rapala lures...and my line, I don't want to go lighter than 12lb though because I fear of breakoffs... but if it needs to be lighter it needs to be lighter. ill get some 8lb copoly and see how that does. I did get the light jitterbug to cast without a backlash but it didn't go very far. about the same as a spinning setup. should I expect this? or should it be casting farther than a spinning setup?

and you guys are right about being new to baitcasters. its my first year. iv had 2 since may (lews mach 1 and lews carbon blue speed spool) and it took me 1 day to get it to cast properly with the heavier stuff. nice and far with only about 3 backlashes. not to shabby for my fist time with a baitcaster wouldn't you say?

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There isn't any reason to use FC line with surface lures or crankbaits, in fact the FC line sinks and creates issues with top water and jerk baits.

 

10 lb Big Game, it's a good strong casting line for your application.

Tom

 

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29 minutes ago, WRB said:

There isn't any reason to use FC line with surface lures or crankbaits, in fact the FC line sinks and creates issues with top water and jerk baits.

 

10 lb Big Game, it's a good strong casting line for your application.

Tom

 

your right I know that, I was just testing out to see if I could cast them. sorry about the confusion man. the rod will be used for jerk baits (HJ8 size and up) light jigs & spinner baits, texas rigs, square bills, lipless cranks, and other cranks. I chose 15lb line because I think its a good "all around" line weight. I would go 12lb but I feel like I would like I would get more use from 15lb.

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Your reel spool needs to slow down as the lure does or a backlash can occur. Today's anglers believe the breaking system can make the needed spool speed adjustments automatically, the proof they can't is your backlashes.

 

I am one of those people... :( I do think that having both centrifugal and magnetic brakes help cut down on backlash. if all else fails I was going to get a new reel that had 6 centrifugal brakes and a magnetic braking system...

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53 minutes ago, An Outdoor Guy said:

well from what I'm getting so far I'm thinking its the rapala lures...and my line, I don't want to go lighter than 12lb though because I fear of breakoffs... but if it needs to be lighter it needs to be lighter. ill get some 8lb copoly and see how that does. I did get the light jitterbug to cast without a backlash but it didn't go very far. about the same as a spinning setup. should I expect this? or should it be casting farther than a spinning setup?

and you guys are right about being new to baitcasters. its my first year. iv had 2 since may (lews mach 1 and lews carbon blue speed spool) and it took me 1 day to get it to cast properly with the heavier stuff. nice and far with only about 3 backlashes. not to shabby for my fist time with a baitcaster wouldn't you say?

Yes, in my experience a light lure with a baitcast rod isn't going to cast further than a spinning rod when both having the correct lure rating.  However, there are a ton of guys on here better with light lures than I am.  I started in '09 with my first low profile.  You did better the first day than I did in....well I don't remember how long.  Took a while for my side arm casts to go reasonably straight instead of 30-40 degrees to the left (casting right handed).  Learning to use a roll cast was a big plus.  If you aren't already using a roll cast, I suggest you give it a try.  It keeps the rod tip loaded better than a straight back, straight forward cast resulting in fewer backlashes.  In my case a lot fewer.  I've even incorporated a slight roll cast into my overhead casts...unless I need ultimate accuracy.

 

1 minute ago, An Outdoor Guy said:

your right I know that, I was just testing out to see if I could cast them. sorry about the confusion man. the rod will be used for jerk baits (HJ8 size and up) light jigs & spinner baits, texas rigs, square bills, lipless cranks, and other cranks. I chose 15lb line because I think its a good "all around" line weight. I would go 12lb but I feel like I would like I would get more use from 15lb.

Have you ever tried to break 12#?  It is the line I use on the majority of my MH rods.  However, as I said before, I have a friend who fishes 15# CXX on the vast majority of his rods....MH and Medium. Use what you feel comfortable with and have the most confidence in.  There are guys on here who use braid almost exclusively, or fluoro almost exclusively or like me mono or a co-polymer almost exclusively.  I only use a different kind of line where I feel it will do a better job.  I'll cast into weeds or lily pads with 12# mono, but prefer braid in those circumstances.

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I have been using the roll cast as my main way of casting and I love it! I would like to know when you cast out on a roll cast do you point your rod at the bait or keep it pointed to the side? ive been keeping it pointed to the side with good luck and accuracy but i know the law of physics says that I should point it at the lure to keep the resistance down.

As for trying to break 12lb fluoro, I haven't purposely tried to break it but I keep talking myself into using 15lb. Fluoro is new for me, I am a strictly braid fisherman but I decided it was time to give fluorocarbon a try. so far I love it. I have 12lb Berkley vanish as a leader on my spinning setup, 15lb on the above setup, and 50lb braid to a 17lb fluoro leader on my MH/F bait cast. when I want to switch to frogs or top water I just cut off the fluoro and go straight 50lb braid. I am amazed at what's available on the market now a days. when I was a kid there was only mono and braid. hell i didn't even know what a bait caster WAS back then :lol: 

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Do you have a 6'6 or 7' medium light or medium spinning rod?

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8 minutes ago, fishnkamp said:

Do you have a 6'6 or 7' medium light or medium spinning rod?

7' medium Duckett ghost spinning rod with a lews mach 1 spinning reel. 20lb braid to a 12lb fluorocarbon leader

 

I know that i can throw these light lures on that but I am trying to get rid of the spinning setup all together. that's why i got the medium bait cast rod. but the more i think about it the more i realize its probably not going anywhere :lol:

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Inside my rod locker is around 15 rods, sometimes less and sometimes more.  Always I have at least 2 G Loomis 6 foot spinning rods. I have a light 1/16 to 5/16 and a medium 1/8 to 3/8. Then I carry a Okuma 6'9 ml Reflextions rod that i had 4 inches taken off the long rear part of the split handle so now it is 6'5 and fits perfect, it covers 1/8 to 1/2 and throws the light jerkbaits like original Rapala floating minnows and rebel humpys and jitterbugs. I also throw in a G Loomis 7 foot medium rod for drop shots and sencos when needed. The rest are all baitcasters, some of which are very technique specific like frogs and jigs fished very deep. Often those rods do not go out.  I am a diesel mechanic, so I use tools everyday.  I do not expect to use a screwdriver  to do the job of a wrench or a hammer. It seems you are not thrilled with the distance you get with the spinning rod setup as you have it. Try something a little different. First I load 1/2 of the spool with 14 pound Stren clear blue. This makes a really good backing and it makes sure the arbor knot tightens good and won't slip. Next add 1/2 of a spool of Berkley Original FireLine 14 pound braid. This line acts very different than other lines. I use the Original or Fused, depends on what I find.  The play the same. I also like the green or neonlime (the same color) and I will add a 10 pound P LIne cxx moss green leader anywhere from 3 to 6 foot long. Save your present braid on a empty spool or even cardboard.  One nice thing is by using the backing it only takes one half as much braid or  fluoro to fill a reel.  Now you might want to spool the 20 pound braid on the baitcaster and concentrate using the baitcaster for throwing baits like Reaction Innovation Skinny Dipper swimbaits with belly weighted hooks or even the jig heads that look like fish heads,  jigs with plastics, texas rigged plastics, thing like that. I think you will be more successful.  The equipment you own is nice, but I think you can use it a bit more efficiently perhaps. you may find it works better for you, or not. Good Luck. Let us know how it works out.  By the way my wife can handle any fly rod and any spinning rig , but no baitcasters. She used to have a dickens of a time with coils coming off her spool and making a mess, or should iI say I had the trouble with....    Anyway we tried a ton of different mono and copoly line, but since I switched to the FireLine that went away completely.  We have caught some big fish on it

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2 hours ago, An Outdoor Guy said:

 

I am one of those people... :( I do think that having both centrifugal and magnetic brakes help cut down on backlash. if all else fails I was going to get a new reel that had 6 centrifugal brakes and a magnetic braking system...

All the brakes in the world won't outdo a well trained thumb. 

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Might be too light for a baitcasting setup. And rapala's balsa is pretty hard to cast in itself.

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10 hours ago, Bruce424 said:

Might be too light for a baitcasting setup. And rapala's balsa is pretty hard to cast in itself.

Not really.  I've got 4 set-ups that cast a 3/16 oz. Rapala Shad Rap a pretty good distance.  Plenty of guys are a lot better than I am.  One combo I have has cast down to 1/16 oz. or less according to the seller.  That rod is rated for 1/8 oz. on the low end. Two of those four rods are rated down to 1/16 oz. but I'm nowhere near there yet.  :(   I read of guys casting 1/20 oz. with no problem.  Doubt I will try for anything under 1/8 oz.  Spinning gear is so much easier....even if it isn't as much fun.

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19 hours ago, An Outdoor Guy said:

your right I know that, I was just testing out to see if I could cast them. sorry about the confusion man. the rod will be used for jerk baits (HJ8 size and up) light jigs & spinner baits, texas rigs, square bills, lipless cranks, and other cranks. I chose 15lb line because I think its a good "all around" line weight. I would go 12lb but I feel like I would like I would get more use from 15lb.

I am one of those people... :( I do think that having both centrifugal and magnetic brakes help cut down on backlash. if all else fails I was going to get a new reel that had 6 centrifugal brakes and a magnetic braking system...

Brakes help but here is where spool control has always been ----> :thumbsup:

And it´s not the "Rapala lures"; it´s a combination of

your line being thick,

your line having poor performance,

not the right spool tension & brake brake settings

added to the aerodynamic properties of the lure you are trying to cast, some reels like spinnerbaits and lots of cranks have the areodynamic properties of a kite, many cranks also don´t have weight transfer system making them harder to cast.

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You've got the perfect storm of issues there. Light lures with less than optimal aerodynamics, stiff line and a Rod that's likely not loading well. Lure weight ranges are subjective suggestions and the sweet spot is usually near the middle of the posted range. 

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2 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

You've got the perfect storm of issues there. Light lures with less than optimal aerodynamics, stiff line and a Rod that's likely not loading well. Lure weight ranges are subjective suggestions and the sweet spot is usually near the middle of the posted range. 

Dvt summed your problem up. Many rods rated down to 1/4 oz struggle with that light of a lure. The cheaper lews and abu combos are heavier in power than rated imho, much like the abuse rods sold individually. I used to have a 7' med action vendetta spinning rod rated 1/4-5/8 that would barely load enough for a decent cast with 3/8 oz and had plenty of power for 1/2 oz and 3/4 oz underpins for stripers. Also the line you are using is fairly stiff, 10-12 lb line will cast much better. The braking system on that reel is a simple magnetic system that places constant pressure on the spool comparative to where it is set. That means that if the brakes are half on, they constantly apply that pressure to the spool, no matter how fast it's moving. A centrifugal system or dynamic magnetic system like daiwas mag force z applies more braking as the spool moves faster and less braking when it's moving slower. The braking system plays a huge part in how far you can cast, especially with lighter weight, less aerodynamic lures. The best advice I can give is to try lighter line or braid, and if that doesn't improve your cast enough, to look for a rod with lighter power and/or a reel with a more advanced braking system

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Well I spent all day today fishing and I got it down after the first two hours!! I'm casting all the lighter lures that I was having trouble with!! exept the rapala HJ8...oh well ill throw that on a spinning setup.

The problem was me :lol: you know that routine we all have when we go fishing? we throw certain lures on certain rods first. well mine just so happens to be a Medium heavy/ Fast rod throwing 3/8 - 1/2 oz spinner baits and chatter baits. well anyhoo, It was my muscle memory, thinking I was still holding a medium heavy throwin big ol baits :lol: once I got my muscles trained to the medium rod I was throwin them just fine.

A nice guy also saw me struggling at first and when he came back to load up his boat he sprayed my line down with some KVD line conditioner. It helped my distance and the line felt much more...malleable. definitely going to have to get me some of this.

Anyways thank you all for the help and advice! once I need to re spool I'm going to do so with 12lb.

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