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pauldconyers

Silly MLF rule

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http://www.another site.com/news_article/9458/new-bpt-rules-limit-angler-networking#.XGos0uhKhPY

 

How in the world do they plan on "enforcing" this rule? At midnight of the first practice day anglers can't talk about baits, the fishery, etc. Is it me or isn't this kind of silly? Are they just on the honor system or something?

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Dead horse. Been talked about already. They won't cheat for fear of being caught.

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1 minute ago, jbsoonerfan said:

Dead horse. Been talked about already. They won't cheat for fear of being caught.

Didn't see that conversation. How are you caught if two people are talking? One of the two rat on the other and in the process expose themselves? If everyone can talk to everybody no one has an advantage over anyone else and don't have to have silly rules. They already almost blind fold and gag anglers on the way to the water. While different I can kind of see the idea behind it at least.

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1 minute ago, jbsoonerfan said:

Okay, honor system is your answer. 

No, my answer is don't try to legislate a silly rule like this in the first place. They said all their rules are fluid, this is one that will go away quickly. Guys who are friends will be off the water in the evening on the road in cities where they do not know anyone. Obviously they will go to dinner together and such. Obviously the talk would migrate to their shared work field. Is the other guy going to stick his fingers in his ear and say "LA LA LA" so he doesn't "cheat"?

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Just now, pauldconyers said:

No, my answer is don't try to legislate a silly rule like this in the first place. They said all their rules are fluid, this is one that will go away quickly. Guys who are friends will be off the water in the evening on the road in cities where they do not know anyone. Obviously they will go to dinner together and such. Obviously the talk would migrate to their shared work field. Is the other guy going to stick his fingers in his ear and say "LA LA LA" so he doesn't "cheat"?

Yes, Luke Clausen failed a lie detector after going to dinner one day and a local (not a pro) was talking to him about the lake they were fishing. He finished in the top 12 and he failed the lie detector and forgot about the conversation. I guess you are determined to say they are going to cheat since you started a thread talking about "silly" rule. 

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1 minute ago, jbsoonerfan said:

Yes, Luke Clausen failed a lie detector after going to dinner one day and a local (not a pro) was talking to him about the lake they were fishing. He finished in the top 12 and he failed the lie detector and forgot about the conversation. I guess you are determined to say they are going to cheat since you started a thread talking about "silly" rule. 

They are SERIOUSLY administering lie detector tests???

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Just now, pauldconyers said:

They are SERIOUSLY administering lie detector tests???

LOL, are you new to tournament fishing????

 

They do it at the local level. You don't think they do it when hundreds of thousands are on the line?

 

No wonder you asked the question.

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3 minutes ago, jbsoonerfan said:

LOL, are you new to tournament fishing????

 

They do it at the local level. You don't think they do it when hundreds of thousands are on the line?

 

No wonder you asked the question.

I am. I understand there can be a lot of money on the line but this just seems ridiculous to try to tell people what they can and can't talk about. I can understand if there are connecting lakes or areas they you are not allowed to go into and such that TRULY would give someone a competitive advantage about but this just seems excessive to me. Maybe it is just me.

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This isn't a new thing that MLF just came up with. BASS has no information rules and lakes are off limits for a month before a tournament. The only way to enforce these and many other rules is with lie detector tests and that is what they do at all levels where large amounts of money are involved. 

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2 minutes ago, Jrob78 said:

This isn't a new thing that MLF just came up with. BASS has no information rules and lakes are off limits for a month before a tournament. The only way to enforce these and many other rules is with lie detector tests and that is what they do at all levels where large amounts of money are involved. 

I can understand that and that certainly makes sense. I'm curious what kind of questions are asked. Do they ask if they hired someone to go fish that lake and give them a report? If they are out to eat and a local comes up and starts giving a guy a bunch of tips does he have to cut the guy off immediately for fear he would fail the test? I'm curious if they are asked these questions before they take the stage at a huge weigh in so not to potentially announce a winner publicly only to have to back track later. Does BASS also not allow anglers to talk to each other about the lake and baits used once the tournament starts?

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1 minute ago, pauldconyers said:

I can understand that and that certainly makes sense. I'm curious what kind of questions are asked. Do they ask if they hired someone to go fish that lake and give them a report? If they are out to eat and a local comes up and starts giving a guy a bunch of tips does he have to cut the guy off immediately for fear he would fail the test? I'm curious if they are asked these questions before they take the stage at a huge weigh in so not to potentially announce a winner publicly only to have to back track later. Does BASS also not allow anglers to talk to each other about the lake and baits used once the tournament starts?

No idea, it isn't something that is talked about much.

 

BASS allows anglers to share information with each other but not get outside information.

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There house....their rules.

Yup

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Its to keep it even, so it doesnt become a team sport like nascar, where you work as a team to push the team as a whole to the top. Would it be as much fun to watch if you had a group like swindle, j lee, m lee, and strader working together and finishing as a group at the top every week, unless team palunik, kvd, omori, and howell knocks them off? It keeps,it an individual sport, where you bring your personal best and see if its good enough on your own. 

 

Most team tounament guys i know both bring their own boats to practice days, and fish diffrent ways and areas to try and dial in a pattern. One may fish offshore structure and points and other junk fish shallow, or one on south end and one on north end of lake and so on.  It allows them to cover more water faster. 

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7 hours ago, pauldconyers said:

I can understand that and that certainly makes sense. I'm curious what kind of questions are asked. Do they ask if they hired someone to go fish that lake and give them a report? If they are out to eat and a local comes up and starts giving a guy a bunch of tips does he have to cut the guy off immediately for fear he would fail the test? I'm curious if they are asked these questions before they take the stage at a huge weigh in so not to potentially announce a winner publicly only to have to back track later. Does BASS also not allow anglers to talk to each other about the lake and baits used once the tournament starts?

Depends on the circuit and the circumstances around the test. If you have been protested, then the questions will be directly focused on the particular infraction in question. Whether you take it before or after depends upon when it was reported and the discretion of the tournament director.

 

In the case of just a standard polygraph as random or for the winner, then the questions are more general and taken immediately following the event. For example, I had to take one immediately after winning a regional event with a boat as the winning prize. Questions were things like, did you knowingly break any rules; were your fish all caught in a legal and sporting manner; did you receive any information or help from anyone not entered in the event; were you on the lake during the off-limits period; did you weigh any fish not legally caught by yourself, etc.

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My cousin took  polygraph  after we won a large   event . One of us had to take it and he volunteered . The bad part is we were accused of fishing in an off limits area and I dont believe polygraphs work anyway . We were ten  miles from the questionable area . He passed it . I still dont think the things work .

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4 hours ago, scaleface said:

My cousin took  polygraph  after we won a large   event . One of us had to take it and he volunteered . The bad part is we were accused of fishing in an off limits area and I dont believe polygraphs work anyway . We were ten  miles from the questionable area . He passed it . I still dont think the things work .

What’s the rule if you fail the test? That’s it, you lose??

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7 hours ago, scaleface said:

My cousin took  polygraph  after we won a large   event . One of us had to take it and he volunteered . The bad part is we were accused of fishing in an off limits area and I dont believe polygraphs work anyway . We were ten  miles from the questionable area . He passed it . I still dont think the things work .

There have been several studies that show that in most cases they do not work.  Sixty Minutes did a story on lie detector test many years ago that was very interesting.  They paid people that worked at a CBS owned photography magazine to take polygraph test from several polygraph companies.  Each company was told that a different person was suspected of stealing a camera.  The "suspect" was not told that they were the suspect.  In every case the results showed that suspect was lying.

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3 hours ago, 813basstard said:

What’s the rule if you fail the test? That’s it, you lose??

I dont know .

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Depending on the circuit, there could be an appeal mechanism in place where all factors are considered. 

 

If you were turned in by someone who witnessed you do something, and you failed the test you forfeit the win and all monies paid. 

Including any contingencies.  

 

 

 

 

 

Mike

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Polygraphs - "Courts, including the United States Supreme Court (cf. U.S. v. Scheffer, 1998 in which Dr.'s Saxe's research on polygraph fallibility was cited), have repeatedly rejected the use of polygraph evidence because of its inherent unreliability." https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph

 

I'd refuse the test and sue if they demanded that you had to take a polygraph or forfeit.

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Paul, a number of years ago Richmond, Virginia was host to a number of B.A.S.S. Northern Tournaments.

 

This Historic James river, the Appomattox river, and the Chickahominy river were all off limits.

 

So what did I and a friend do? We headed out to the Route 5 ramp to hit the water three days before the tournament just to try our luck.

 

What we saw was mind boggling.  My friend and I were wearing our jeans, a long sleeve shirt, tennis shoes, sunglasses, and a cap.

 

We saw a number of beautiful Rangers with 250 Mercs and other high end bass boats with guys dressed for work-casual: tan pants, blue shirts, professional looking fishing shoes, and of course, sunglasses and a cap.

 

What were they doing?  Each was prefishing the waters for a professional. They would take what information they gathered on their recon mission back to friends in Richmond who would tell their pro what these guys told them about the fishing conditions, etc.

 

Was it legal? I have no idea. But it was interesting seeing guys on the Chick river dressed for work and having all of their teeth.

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2 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Polygraphs - "Courts, including the United States Supreme Court (cf. U.S. v. Scheffer, 1998 in which Dr.'s Saxe's research on polygraph fallibility was cited), have repeatedly rejected the use of polygraph evidence because of its inherent unreliability." https://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph

 

I'd refuse the test and sue if they demanded that you had to take a polygraph or forfeit.

I'd imagine that by entering into the test you sign something saying you will submit to a polygraph if asked to take one.

1 hour ago, Sam said:

Paul, a number of years ago Richmond, Virginia was host to a number of B.A.S.S. Northern Tournaments.

 

This Historic James river, the Appomattox river, and the Chickahominy river were all off limits.

 

So what did I and a friend do? We headed out to the Route 5 ramp to hit the water three days before the tournament just to try our luck.

 

What we saw was mind boggling.  My friend and I were wearing our jeans, a long sleeve shirt, tennis shoes, sunglasses, and a cap.

 

We saw a number of beautiful Rangers with 250 Mercs and other high end bass boats with guys dressed for work-casual: tan pants, blue shirts, professional looking fishing shoes, and of course, sunglasses and a cap.

 

What were they doing?  Each was prefishing the waters for a professional. They would take what information they gathered on their recon mission back to friends in Richmond who would tell their pro what these guys told them about the fishing conditions, etc.

 

Was it legal? I have no idea. But it was interesting seeing guys on the Chick river dressed for work and having all of their teeth.

Again, when there is this much money at stake people will do what people will do. Great story!

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16 minutes ago, pauldconyers said:

I'd imagine that by entering into the test you sign something saying you will submit to a polygraph if asked to take one.

 

In most local and all national circuit tournaments regardless of the level, the governing rules and regulations are made available to each entrant who's responsibility is to know and accept as is. 

 

If you enter you agree to them all regardless of your personal preference.  

 

 

 

Mike

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Mike L said:

In most local and all national circuit tournaments regardless of the level, the governing rules and regulations are made available to each entrant who's responsibility is to know and accept as is. 

 

If you enter you agree to them all regardless of your personal preference.  

 

 

 

Mike

 

 

 

Every tournament I have fished it has said something about a lie detector possibly being used. If you sign that waiver you are agreeing to taking one. They would laugh at someone when they threatened to sue. But, it is 2019 and people will sue for anything looking for a quick payday.

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