I haven't bought a marine battery in two or three years, has anything changed regarding what people are buying? For cranking batteries and also trolling batteries. Wow... I just came across a lithium trolling battery. Expensive up front cost but, hmmm...

 

lithium trolling

I REALLY wanted to go to lithium this year since I was due to replace my trolling batteries...But the initial cost is still just too much for me.  My boat doesn't have performance issues where losing all the weight would be a huge gain, so I'm thinking maybe in 3-5 years when the batteries I got this season are due for replacement I'll go lithium...Prices should be lower then too.  

 

I think the standard flooded/wet 12v batteries still work well assuming you use the appropriate size/model for the intended use and keep on top of maintenance.

 

Lithium is definitely the future though, just tough to justify currently when I got three 31 series batteries for less than what a single lithium would have cost.  

Personally I go with AGMs.  There are no lithium battery manufacturing companies in America.  There also seems to be some sketchy ones on the market so I am taking a pass on them.  I am replacing my 5 year old trolling motor batteries tomorrow.

10 hours ago, Jig Man said:

Personally I go with AGMs.  There are no lithium battery manufacturing companies in America.  There also seems to be some sketchy ones on the market so I am taking a pass on them.  I am replacing my 5 year old trolling motor batteries tomorrow.

 

Why AGM? I have never owned anything other than the usual marine battery but I'm open!

 

An advantage of lithium is when fishing in a pond jumper boat or kayak... if they have lower weight, that's good because regular batteries sure are heavy!

AGM is maintenance free! No fumes to cause terminal corrosion, can be mounted in any position, uses standard on board 10-15 amp changers, battery life is 3X wet cells.

Why would anyone use a wet cell battery today?

Tom

The main reason for running flooded cell batteries that have caps and needed the water level maintained in them, nothing in a lead acid battery can match their run time.  So, if you need the absolute max run time, it's a flooded cell with caps, if it max battery life, it's AGM.  AGM can give you two to three times the cycle count of a flooded cell battery.   Maintenance free batteries are nothing but flooded cell batteries with small plates in them so the can hold more electrolyte .  

Because of the prohibitive price, I have not even looked into the Lithium's.  However, I have tons of experience with Lithium's in my RC planes and helicopters, so based on that experience, I doubt if anything in a lead acid battery is going to match them, in any way, other that price.  The lithium price is a hard pill to swallow. 

 

Let me clarify, Maintenance Free, applies to any battery that you doesn't have caps that you have to maintain the water level in.  It was originally coined for the flooded cell batteries that they just made the cell's smaller in so they would hold more electrolyte.  That's why they will never have as much capacity as the same size battery with caps can have.

AGM, Gel, Lithium, are all called maintenance free but are the same as the flooded cell maintenance free.     

On 3/17/2021 at 9:45 PM, livemusic said:

 

Why AGM? I have never owned anything other than the usual marine battery but I'm open!

 

An advantage of lithium is when fishing in a pond jumper boat or kayak... if they have lower weight, that's good because regular batteries sure are heavy!

I think Tom and Keith covered your question pretty well.  My main reasons for AGMs... no mess, no water to add, no chance of a spill.  My bilge area stays clean enough that I can keep extra clothes in it.

Lithium ion batteries will probably not be with us for too many years. Solid state batteries are the future.  In 5 years or even less, solid state batteries will be taking over. Smaller, lighter, more powerful, faster charging, longer lasting and safer are all promised in the new technology. The demand for better batteries in electric cars is pushing the development of these batteries and the technology will find its way into everything we use that needs mobile power. They still have a way to go to bring the costs down, but they are on the way. 

Only two choices IMO, ultra cheapo $100 replace whenever batteries or lithium for $500.  AGM at $300 is a terrible value.  Perhaps someone has had luck with cheaper AGMs but my experience with them has been that cheap EverStarts last just as long.  Even if they did last their 3* as long they are 3* the price when for 5* the price you get something that lasts way more than 5* as long.

Some things to remember.....technology for lithium as a cranking battery is still being developed.  Some motor manufacturers don’t recommend them.  For trolling batteries, there have been instances of the new trolling motors frying because they are not designed to run on the amount of power lithium puts out for the life of the charge, in other words running your trolling motor on high for extended periods.  Finally with both lithium and AGM you will need a charger designed for them.  AGM chargers can be stock manufacturers if beyond a certain year and some can be reprogrammed to charge AGMs and some will not.  My Ranger OEM charger in my 2005 model would not charge AGMs and could not be reprogrammed to do so.  Most would never notice the difference but I did a little test multiple times to verify.  After all 4 lights showed green, 3 wet cells and 1 AGM, The wet cells were at 99% and the AGM was at 75-80% as measured by a Schumacher portable charger.  I would always have to top off the AGM.  As I said, most wouldn’t notice the difference but it contributes to the shortened life of the AGM.  I now have a charger that can be programmed for all 3 types of batteries.  Another problem that I know about 1st hand is that some lithium’s and new chargers like the Power Pole Charge, which is the latest and greatest in chargers, it directs your big motor to charge the batteries that need the most, is Bluetooth and programmable as well but will not function with some lithium’s because of the programmed profiles within the batteries themselves.  My fishing partner had to return a set of lithium’s because they were not compatible with the Power Pole charger.  He is very technically educated and was working with the engineers from both companies.    I currently run 3 group 31 wet cells for my trolling motor and 1 big Sears PM1 for my cranking and accessories.  I am running 8 and 9 inch graphs and don’t normally run my livewells so I have plenty of juice.  Side note, Sears PM1 AGMs used to be the gold standard but they got discontinued.  I had one fail and got it replaced with one of the last ones made.  It was a tech for Sears that told me that the reason they were discontinued was the massive warranty returns by people not using the right chargers.  That started my quest to get more educated on batteries.  

The beauty of lithiums is that good ones will include a BMS resolving most of the charger concerns you are referring to.

 

The Sears platinum were made by Odyssey btw.  Killer batteries at the time, but the time for AGM has long since sailed.  If you have them run them, but spending money on them today isn't logical.

As Toxic stated.  No 12 Volt battery is just a 12 volt battery.  That just means it will operate a system designed for 12 volts.  They all have different charging requirements.  Max current they can be charged at, max voltage they can be charged with, whether or not the can handle an over charge and how much over charge they require to be balanced and how much maintenance voltage they require.  If any of these things are wrong for the battery you have, you will shorten the life of that battery.  AGM's can give you triple or more cycle counts when properly charged and maintained.  With the wrong charger, it may not give you as many as a flooded cell battery, which are the most forgiving to charge conditions.

Now, with all that said, the common use of AGM's is not that old, so the charging systems in most earlier boats and automobiles are not designed for AGM batteries, so you have to be careful when you start running AGM's as cranking batteries.

4 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

The beauty of lithiums is that good ones will include a BMS resolving most of the charger concerns you are referring to.

 

The Sears platinum were made by Odyssey btw.  Killer batteries at the time, but the time for AGM has long since sailed.  If you have them run them, but spending money on them today isn't logical.

Exactly, it’s the BMS internal control that made them incompatible  with the Power Pole Charge charger.  I knew that the Sears were rebranded Odessey but they were a little cheaper.  The new gold standard AGMs are Northstar and a couple of others.  I don’t see AGMs going away anytime soon until the cost of lithium’s comes down and the motor manufacturers ok them for use as a cranking battery.  Most that I know that are serious about needing the power have an AGM cranking and a 5th house battery to run accessories.

Some of us have 2 house batteries to run the electronics.

1 minute ago, Jig Man said:

Some of us have 2 house batteries to run the electronics.

“House batteries “ ? I’ve never heard anyone use that term before this thread. From the usage, I understand what it means in this context, but where does the term come from?

During the 80’-90’s I ran Trojan SC225’s gr 31 wet cell batteries. Good battery and used a automatic. Watering system to keep the cell flooded at all times.The terminal were coated with dialectic coating to reduce corrosion, however this type of battery vents gases regardless of what you do.

The battery life for me was 5 years, lots of TLC.

My 2005 Trident came with Optima AGM’s gr 31 for the TM and 34M for cranking. The AGM’s were new to me required zero maintenance. The original Optima’s died after 3 years and my battery guy advised me not to replace with Optima because Interstate bought the company and quality isn’t as good. He suggested Oddessey or Northstar, the price in 2010 was over $350 each....he also suggest a new company VMax Tank and their marine AGM gr 31 was $200 each same stats and warranty. I gave the VMax a try and sold my boat last 2020 and the VMax were still going strong, zero maintenance, equal TM run tome as my old SC225’s.

Same Norco  3 bank onboard battery charger the boat came with. Hard to beat 10 years battery life with no maintenance.

Tom

PS, whatever you choose replace all the batteries in series at the same time.

 

While we're all sharing our battery stories.....

I have been running  4 Optima 31M BLUE TOP AGM's since 2016.  They are charged and maintained year round by  Dual Pro Professional Series quad bank charger. 

My next post explain any problems I have experienced with either, will be my first. 

Cranker has successful started 2 different 200 hp Mercury's going on 5 years.

As well as fully power up twin 12 ft Talons, twin 10 inch Helix units, 360 Imaging, and everything else not called a trolling motor.  The 112 Fortrex still runs strong all day. All with Zero battery maintenance.   Not sure what else I could ask for honestly. 

A-Jay

 

I am running 31 tanks and Odyssey for cranking and have the same story as Andy.  Given you can’t tell the cost of something until the accounting period is over, it sure seams to me AGM is the way to go until technology and price gives me a reason to change

I've heard house battery for decades it seems around larger boats, the kind with berths and a galley, etc. It may have started with the RV crowd - the house batteries vs the chassis/running gear batteries.

 

I haven't found AGM batteries to cost 3x the price of the $99 Group 31's that everyone I know used to buy at Walmart until some folks got some duds a few years back. Recently they/we have switched to Duracell Ultra Group 31's from Batteries Plus or Sam's Club. BP has them for $244 minus 10% if you order on line and pick them up at the store and then there's a $10 rebate. So if you have a trade in to avoid the core charge they run around $210 each plus tax. They charge faster and easier and if they last twice as long as the old Walmart specials all will be well.

I just replaced my deep cycle batteries last season for the first time since I bought my boat in 2015. Those things last for 5 seasons. They were standard deep cycle interstate batteries in size 27.

 

Being that they lasted that long without failure, I decided to replace them with a similar battery. I traded them in, received $10 off, bought them $15 off on sale, and also got an employee discount ($15 more off) from the place I purchased them. So each one came to 60 bucks.  That’s 120 bucks for 2 brand new size 27 deep cycle batteries. 
 

They may or may not last as long as my last set or an AGM battery that’s about 5 times the cost, but for the price and reliability I experienced so far you’d have a hard time persuading me into anything else.

 

https://www.interstatebatteries.com/recreation-vehicles/marine-batteries/deep-cycle

I see that Bass Pro sells lithium batteries. Have a 3 year warranty. Seems it should be longer, lol.

 

I sure like the idea of less weight and as I said, for pond jumping, wow, the low weight would be fantastic. I have a Pelican pond jumper boat and just putting a heavy a$$ trolling battery in there is cumbersome.

 

Bass Pro lithium

I hope you understand, to get a lithium equivalent to your lead acid battery, you will need something around 100Ah.  Those cheaper 40Ah would be like trying to run a motor cycle battery. 

 

A lead acid, group 24 are typically in the 80Ah range  How many people run group 24 TM batteries.  Maybe your pelican pond jumper.

A lead acid group 27 are typically in the 105Ah range.

A lead acid group 30/31 are in the 120Ah range

You are still going to need the Amp hours, no matter what kind of battery you use.  The lithium's are just supposed to last a zillion times longer (cycle count) than lead acid and a whole lot lighter.  So, when you shop for them, you are looking at a $800 or so battery to use in the place of you $100 lead acid, $200 AGM.

6 hours ago, Way2slow said:

I hope you understand, to get a lithium equivalent to your lead acid battery, you will need something around 100Ah.  Those cheaper 40Ah would be like trying to run a motor cycle battery. 

 

A lead acid, group 24 are typically in the 80Ah range  How many people run group 24 TM batteries.  Maybe your pelican pond jumper.

A lead acid group 27 are typically in the 105Ah range.

A lead acid group 30/31 are in the 120Ah range

You are still going to need the Amp hours, no matter what kind of battery you use.  The lithium's are just supposed to last a zillion times longer (cycle count) than lead acid and a whole lot lighter.  So, when you shop for them, you are looking at a $800 or so battery to use in the place of you $100 lead acid, $200 AGM.

 

Good point. I note that all of this will likely be VERY different in five years. Batteries are about to enter warp speed change, methinks. But at my age, five years is an eternity. And even though I am plenty frugal on many things, spending $800 for a pond jumper battery is not out of the question for me IF it makes sense to make those five years easier, more enjoyable. Not saying I'm going to do it, but I'm looking into it. The weight of a regular trolling battery is so extreme, I even worry about structural integrity of the pond jumper! (Same structural concern, even more due to rivets, for my jon boat.)

 

But I also have two bass boats to worry with. I've been considering selling one but there is one lake here I fish a lot and I cannot get my 19 ft big boat in there (poor launch) but I can the 17 ft Tracker.

I'm 73 and 74 in  a couple of months.  I just sold my 20' bass boat, it had only been in the water 3 times in a past two years.  I also have 17' Stratos, that I haven't seen in a few years, a 14' jon and a 24' pontoon.  I've been playing with some Chart plotters/sonars for the past week learning them and spending a lot of time looking at the lakes I fish, and how far some of my favorite spots are apart.  They didn't seem that far when you could run 70 mph to them.   I'm already getting sellers remorse, and then my wife hits me with she wished I hadn't sold it and my granddaughter almost cried when I told her.  I had it for 18 years and she was almost raised in that boat.

My Stratos is at my brothers and I asked him what condition it was in.  He said the floor has gotten soft and the transom was bad.  He has pulled the lower unit off to put on his pontoon boat's motor and the control head out because his was bad and he took that one.  

Looks like I have a cap to remove and a lot of fiberglass repair work to do, because I'm probably going to make it fishable again.

1 hour ago, Way2slow said:

I'm 73 and 74 in  a couple of months.  I just sold my 20' bass boat, it had only been in the water 3 times in a past two years.  I also have 17' Stratos, that I haven't seen in a few years, a 14' jon and a 24' pontoon.  I've been playing with some Chart plotters/sonars for the past week learning them and spending a lot of time looking at the lakes I fish, and how far some of my favorite spots are apart.  They didn't seem that far when you could run 70 mph to them.   I'm already getting sellers remorse, and then my wife hits me with she wished I hadn't sold it and my granddaughter almost cried when I told her.  I had it for 18 years and she was almost raised in that boat.

My Stratos is at my brothers and I asked him what condition it was in.  He said the floor has gotten soft and the transom was bad.  He has pulled the lower unit off to put on his pontoon boat's motor and the control head out because his was bad and he took that one.  

Looks like I have a cap to remove and a lot of fiberglass repair work to do, because I'm probably going to make it fishable again.

Good luck and I for one would like to see the rehab pics as you complete it.