would it be silly

[corey90]

i just ordered a carbon 4 7'6" medium heavy blank with the gloss finish so i was thinking using all double foot black titanium k frame giudes i was thinkink a 10-8-6 allthe way to the 6 tip top.

[MickD]

You are building a baitcaster, right?  Even with a baitcaster the running guides can be single foot KB's or towards the tip, even KT's.  But if you are worried, just do KB's after the first guide, which I would go with the RV6, (10 LKW works, too)  then single foot KB's to the end.  Use the Arowana tiptop to retain the fastest possible recovery time for the rod.

 

If doing spin, KLH 20-100-5.5M, then a couple KB's, then KT's to the end.  Arowana tiptop. 

[corey90]

im talking kw double foot casting giudes no runners

[spoonplugger1]

Any guide that continues to the tip that is the same size as all the rest is a runner, type and configuration is not important. A thing to think about when selecting guides, your first few guides from the tip at no time have any real load on them, it's been measured by Rich Forhan decades ago, his MH builds all had less then 1/10 of a pound load on the first 3 or 4 guides at all times. Since a SF fly guide can withstand over 20 pounds of load without deflecting let alone being damaged, I believe you have a reasonable safety margin no matter what guide you choose. If this is to protect the rod from damage by you or in the way it is stored or transported than you have a viable concern. Secondly, as guides get smaller and use less materials to build the difference in weight drops dramatically, my mail scale needs two complete sets of guides for a MH like you describe for it to register in a repeatable fashion the difference between my SS sets and a Ti set, you would never know the difference on the rods.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Check out Bill Falconers podcast mastering rod building. He interviewed the Anglers Resource (Fuji) rep who stated that there’s no structural reason to use any double foot (Fuji) guides on a freshwater rod. I use one maybe two for mostly esthetic reasons , 2-3 belly (wide foot) guides and the smallest runners that will pass line and connections. 

[corey90]

maybe theres not a need but its a custom rod and think it would look different 

[Chris Catignani]

You see a lot of catfish and striper rods with two foot runners.
All the old school baitcasting rods for bass had two foot runners.

So...if thats what you want to do, go for it. It not needed for bass but its also not unheard of.

[MikeK]

15 hours ago, corey90 said:

maybe theres not a need but its a custom rod and think it would look different 

What color thread you gonna use?

[corey90]

1 hour ago, MikeK said:

d you gonna use?

metallic gold

[spoonplugger1]

It's your rod, but when I'm building a rod for its performance, the last thing I worry about is how it looks unless I can improve that without impeding performance in a noticeable way. There are a whole bunch of sponsored pros out there using custom non-descript rods you don't see till they are on the water. A sponsorship is one thing, a win and the 50,000+ bucks in nothing they mess with.

[MickD]

3 hours ago, corey90 said:

metallic gold

I'm not sure of your experience level, but if really new,  you might want to consider using regular thread for the main wraps and do some simple inlays and nail knot wrap ends with the metallic.  Some metallics are somewhat difficult to use, with them coming off the spool and tangling easily.  Black, dark green, or candy apple with metallic gold accents make for a very striking appearance, and I think would be easier to wrap.

[J Francho]

Strippers like metallic gold wraps. 

[papajoe222]

On 8/12/2023 at 6:35 PM, J Francho said:

Strippers like metallic gold wraps. 

So do Italians! I did a build for a friend that insisted on metallic gold wraps. I told him it would be structurally unsound as the epoxy wouldn't penetrate it.  He bought my explanation and then questioned when I used metallic gold and silver in the decorative butt wrap I did. LOL, I don't believe he understood, but he loved the finished product.

[MickD]

There is no problem using metallic threads for the main wraps-they are plenty strong.  Keep in mind that when color preservative is used on nylon and poly threads it works by preventing the epoxy from penetrating the thread, and there is no problem with that.  Metallics are plenty strong for the main wraps-it's done all the time. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Wraps secure the guide and epoxy protects the wraps. Finish epoxy is different from adhesive in regard to structural strength. 

[corey90]

dont know how this became about thread and opoxy. This twas suppose to be about using double foot kw titanium frame torzite insert or the black titanium SIC double foot kw i was thinkig first guide 10 second 8 then 6 all the way up to the tip top using only double foot kw

[MickD]

Sorry we got off your  track.  Bottom line is , and I think it was covered, the lighter the guides the faster the recovery from deflection, and the crisper/cleaner the rod will feel.  AND, it will be more sensitive.  The differences can be measured with the True Natural Frequency process with an Android device.  It was mentioned that from a stress perspective double foot guides are unnecessary for any fresh water rod.  I have not used a double foot for anything other than the first guide on casting rods for many years, and I've never had a guide failure.  Even there a single foot will work, and my first micro casting rods were built with single foot micro first guides and they worked fine.  I believe you mentioned wanting to use metallic thread, and I cautioned that it is harder to handle, but that it is strong enough for the job contrary to what another had posted.  PM me for the TNF process if you want to do it. 

[MikeK]

 

11 hours ago, corey90 said:

dont know how this became about thread and opoxy. This twas suppose to be about using double foot kw titanium frame torzite insert or the black titanium SIC double foot kw i was thinkig first guide 10 second 8 then 6 all the way up to the tip top using only double foot kw

 Thought driving factor was looks?

[Lyman X]

DVT can you provide a link to the Falconer podcast  mentioned above?

[spoonplugger1]

If you went 10 mm then all 6 mm you would never know the difference and save a bit of money also.

[Chris Catignani]

13 hours ago, Lyman X said:

DVT can you provide a link to the Falconer podcast  mentioned above?

Mastering Rod Building on Apple Podcasts

[Lyman X]

THX Chris.

[1984isNOW]

@Delaware Valley Tackle

 

There's another forum that used to be owned by a guy (he still kinda runs it) who literally told me he knows more about building rods than anybody in the game, said he had a part in many of the innovations in rod building over the years and we see his ideas at work all over the place, he even has his own magazine.

 

He said there was an experiment done where the guides were not wrapped at all and merely epoxied in place. They held for years.

 

@MickD is definitely right about the challenges of wrapping in metallic thread, it can be a pain to deal with. To add to what he mentioned, tension too tight and it snaps easily.

 

@Chris Catignani was right, do what you wanna do. But do consider the implications of how it will impact performance and sensitivity with all that added metal, thread, and epoxy.

[spoonplugger1]

Single foot runners will make the rod look like 90+% of the rods built since the 90's. In today's world all double foot guides is the odd duck.

[Chris Catignani]

23 hours ago, Kites R4 Skyfishing said:

@Chris Catignani was right, do what you wanna do. But do consider the implications of how it will impact performance and sensitivity with all that added metal, thread, and epoxy.

On a whim one day...I weighed a rod on a scale that went to 1/100 of a gram. I applied a second coat of epoxy to guides and cross wrap on a rod.
Re-weighed it later when it dried and it weighed the same. Now...I know it had to weigh more, but it taught me a lesson about where to look for cutting weight on a rod (its not in the finish).