Ah, I see: 22 to 28 degrees angle to the horizon. I see your point. Bass like many other creatures are seasonal breeders. But I'm not sure how this is to be used at fishing resolution at any one location. The latitudinal distribution of bass spawning is well known. Neat to have the angle delineated. Thanks!

But sun angle only works in a general geographic way. How might we apply that in a useful way at a given location? I have 30 ponds all at the same latitude, but begin and end spawning at different times. They appear to initiate spawning most notably in relation to solar gain, which is related to but not the same as sun angle.

So I have to reiterate:

In a general sense, you are right on. I can find super shallow ponds that heat extra early, with no sign of bass spawning yet, bc sun angle means winter still has teeth. But as things get close (22.5 to 28degrees as you suggest) I still need my thermometer, the best way I know to measure actual "stored sunlight" so to speak.

Even then, as others have mentioned above, it just doesn't always pan out like clockwork. There appear to be other things at work too.

By now Catt must be thinking, what the heck did I start

Paul said:

"But sun angle only works in a general geographic way".

The angle that sunlight enters the atmosphere is an annual cycle

and a major influence on our planet’s four seasons. It stands to reason

that sun angle also plays a part in many of earth's jigsaw puzzles.

In keeping with my above post, I believe that two anglers observing

completely different phenomena may arrive at the same time.

In Crystal River, Florida your water thermometer would not be a useful tool

because the water temperature remains 72 degrees Year-Round.

In waters such as this, it becomes clear that bass are receiving input

that goes beyond water temperature. To my mind, "sun angle" is an adjunct

to "photoperiod" and a worthy contribution. It's not inconceivable

that the six-month period of lengthening daylight is limited (fine-tuned) by sun angle.

Roger.

By now Catt must be thinking, what the heck did I start

Paul said:

"But sun angle only works in a general geographic way".

The angle that sunlight enters the atmosphere is an annual cycle

and a major influence on our planet’s four seasons. It stands to reason

that sun angle also plays a part in many of earth's jigsaw puzzles.

In keeping with my above post, I believe that two anglers observing

completely different phenomena may arrive at the same time.

In Crystal River, Florida your water thermometer would not be a useful tool

because the water temperature remains 72 degrees Year-Round.

In waters such as this, it becomes clear that bass are receiving input

that goes beyond water temperature. To my mind, "sun angle" is an adjunct

to "photoperiod" and a worthy contribution. It's not inconceivable

that the six-month period of lengthening daylight is limited (fine-tuned) by sun angle.

Roger.

Well..Catt should know better lol. I guess I'm just willing to hash this through. It's the terminal curiosity thing I've had since I was little. I dove in deep a while back and so the discussion is important to me. I just wanted to know once and for all, waded in and found it ... complicated. Not surprise there I guess. There are a lot of variables living things have to deal with.

Let me try to summarize:

Sun angle is critical and provides the general window bass spawn in. But "there is no one thing" that "controls" at a fine enough resolution to fish by on a day to day basis. In most places there appears to be an initiation temperature, as the biologists suggest -and that panned out in my efforts. Moon phase (and rapid temperature rise) appear to be able to synchronize/consolidate spawning events. In some instances water levels have been found to synchronize, or in Rainbow Springs ...photoperiod alone possibly (I'm going to have to look into that -gotta be stuff out there). And in any given water body, bass don't all get the call at the same time, as discussed before. Nature finds a way, adapts to what's dished out to a point. If it can't, that population goes extinct.

Make enough sense to quell at least some of that "terminal curiosity" for those afflicted?

I have been busy for the last week since I started couching PE, we had a track & field even that lasted from Wednesday through Friday.

I agree with Roger, I see to many examples where water temperature is a byproduct not an actual cause. As mentioned largemouth bass can spawn successfully in water temperatures from 55 to 75 degrees.

I think egg maturity triggers pre-spawn and photoperiod triggers when the bass actually lay their eggs.

Like I’ve mentioned if one were to sit around watching a thermometer they could miss a major portion of both the pre-spawn & spawn.

I have been busy for the last week since I started couching PE, we had a track & field even that lasted from Wednesday through Friday.

I agree with Roger, I see to many examples where water temperature is a byproduct not an actual cause. As mentioned largemouth bass can spawn successfully in water temperatures from 55 to 75 degrees.

I think egg maturity triggers pre-spawn and photoperiod triggers when the bass actually lay their eggs.

Like I’ve mentioned if one were to sit around watching a thermometer they could miss a major portion of both the pre-spawn & spawn.

To make use of it, one would have to take temperature profiles, not just a surface temp. Even then, I've only done this (adequately) for three spawning seasons. That's a drop in the bucket. Makes one's efforts feel...tiny. Big sandbox we play in.

Ah, I see: 22 to 28 degrees angle to the horizon. I see your point. Bass like many other creatures are seasonal breeders. But I'm not sure how this is to be used at fishing resolution at any one location. The latitudinal distribution of bass spawning is well known. Neat to have the angle delineated. Thanks!

But sun angle only works in a general geographic way. How might we apply that in a useful way at a given location? I have 30 ponds all at the same latitude, but begin and end spawning at different times. They appear to initiate spawning most notably in relation to solar gain, which is related to but not the same as sun angle.

So I have to reiterate:

In a general sense, you are right on. I can find super shallow ponds that heat extra early, with no sign of bass spawning yet, bc sun angle means winter still has teeth. But as things get close (22.5 to 28degrees as you suggest) I still need my thermometer, the best way I know to measure actual "stored sunlight" so to speak.

Even then, as others have mentioned above, it just doesn't always pan out like clockwork. There appear to be other things at work too.

Are all of your 30 ponds on the same north/south axis? Open vs wooded? Bottom composition? That's where the variables start fine-tuning a process initiated by Sun position. My original long post lays out the cascade of parallel events which trigger spawning: stimulation of pineal gland and increased vegetation growth ---> hormonal increase and increased oxygen levels ---> extended feeding periods and increased water clarity and so on.

Are all of your 30 ponds on the same north/south axis? Open vs wooded? Bottom composition? That's where the variables start fine-tuning a process initiated by Sun position. My original long post lays out the cascade of parallel events which trigger spawning: stimulation of pineal gland and increased vegetation growth ---> hormonal increase and increased oxygen levels ---> extended feeding periods and increased water clarity and so on.

Gotcha.

It seems to me that a number of variables surely contribute to the spawn ,and, with that being an accepted premise, why pontificate beyond what has been said?.....How about proceed with launching your boat and fish accordingly!.....Not trying to mean mouth anyone,but, the why and wherefore looks like a moot point.

Because some of us like to talk about things other than who has the “best” rod, reel, lure & so on!

And by the way the boat stays launched

Because some of us like to talk about things other than who has the “best” rod, reel, lure & so on!

And by the way the boat stays launched

Thanx Tom

How about proceeding with launching your boat and fish accordingly!.....

THIS is a forum, not a body of water.

We don't fish here on the forum,,and we don't hold forums on the waters we fish.

Roger

Thanx Tom

THIS is a forum, not a body of water.

We don't fish here on the forum,,and we don't hold forums on the waters we fish.

Roger

Touche

Sheeeeeez!........I bet you guys are still preaching while the spawn has come and gone......

Sheeeeeez!........I bet you guys are still preaching while the spawn has come and gone......

Sheeeeeez!........I bet you can’t find the spawn with both hands

Sure can!...I just check the lilacs.

Sheeeeeez!........I bet you can’t find the spawn with both hands

Gentlemen, gentlemen. Before it gets too chippy here, I'd like to add ...

If the bass spawn and contributing factors were singular and simple, then discussions like this wouldn't be fun for some. Moreover, bass fishing would be boring. The fact that nature and specifically bass biology is a tangled web of contributing factors makes it fun. There's ALWAYS a new puzzle to be put together.

Thank you for your intuitive approach. Those who are frustrated by this thread can exercise their right to CLICK.

Fishing is like golf. An unconquerable sport in which the factors leading to success are always changing.

The journey is the reward.