Matt Fly

Can we define Big Bass, Trophy Class fish. Up north, those are big bass. In the 70's a 10lber was the "telling tape", not in Tx any more. First off, I'm not sure what Peter is refering to about a bass swallowing a jig. Its early and I haven't read all the posts. I don't mean to exclude regions who don't produce double digit bass in this discussion. Big Fish and smarts. we have a communication gap. I don't call 7,8,9, trophy fish, they are excellant kickers. When I think of trophies, 12 and up. How many of your lakes have cemetaries on he bottom, old road beds, old underwater bridges, old house, how many have old stock pond with dams on them, uncleared forests, these are types structure in 20,30,40 feet of water. I take it most people don't fish an old paved road with a bridge over the creek that is submerged in 30ft of water. Under that old sunken bridge, is shade in the summer, areas under there where a bait has never been. A road bed in Birch creek, runs across the creek about 300 yds, will average 17-25ft, will have c-rig and 10 boats year round fishing the same road and bridge. You will see 5 different approaches working most times, french fries, creature baits, jigs, c-rig, t-rig, flukes, spinnerbaits worked deep. My definition of deep is 1o ft and going. I do think bass can condition them selves, what kind of intelligence is that? If they where so dumb, it wouldn't be a challenge. hookem

Peter, I posted this because of that. I agree with some and disagree with some. I just want people to read and make a decsion on their fishing experiences. The papers I added disagree with big bass living shallow, not one but all. I do know people catch fish shallow, cause I have also, but I think the true trophies (What are we defining as a true trophy? 10,13,15?), the majority of true trophies go deep on waters with lots of boat traffic. And heavy fished waters to.

The only ones that seem to care that the big trophy hunting guys got left out are the ones trying to sell swimbait. Just my opinion. Why did the fishermen across the US not vote for a trophy hunter? How do you compare ones skill against another guy? A tournament!!!! How many swimbait chunkers could win or make the cut throwing a 9 inch swim bait, any swimbait. Byron set a western record for large stringer throwing swimbaits, one time!!!! How much money has he won, how many cuts, classics, If these guys are that good, let them compare skills to the other anglers and lets find out who's the greatest angler. OOOOPS, already did that, Rick Clunn won that debate. Catching big bass is only one facet of fishing. Did any of these guys go catch big bass consistantly in other geographical regions? East Coast, Central USA. If you want to prove yourself, go test your self, without the home field advantage. By the way, there is no pressure when you didn't pay 3 Grand to enter that tournament, fish against the Elite Field, travel 1600 miles to fish, and had a co-boater also. Does the greatest angler have to be a tournament fishermen? If not, how would you decide who was the best with out some sort of tests.

A very good read for the beginner and experienced. Bass IQ---- Fish Intelligence By: Dr. Keith A. Jones, PF Fish Research Director Don't get me wrong, I like my pet cat. In fact, through the years I've grown rather fond of the little fur ball. It's just that I'm not real sure about her intelligence level. I look into her eyes and all I see is empty space. The lights are on but nobody's home. Many people wonder the same about fish. Do they show any sign of intelligence? Are some smarter than others? Could most of them take a college SAT exam and score about as high as your average High School adolescent? The answer to the first two questions is an unequivocal yes. The last question will have to wait until fish are allowed into college. Although fish definitely show signs of intelligence, measuring intelligence is by no means easy. The problem is that often the questions we ask of animals hold little meaning for them. Like trying to train your pet rat to remember its name. Why should it? You're going to feed it anyway. Nevertheless, biologists generally agree that an animal's ability to learn serves as a measurable criterion for intelligence. Having said that, I must quickly add that there are different types of learning. Just because an animal lacks proficiency in one type of learning doesn't doom it to mental mediocrity across the board. We see the same thing in humans. I can be both terrible at remembering Spanish tenses but great at memorizing math facts. So do fish learn? Absolutely. One clear example is their ability to quickly learn spatial arrangements. Non-schooling species, and sometimes even schooling species, often establish home ranges where they focus most of their daily activity, much like teenagers hang out at the local drive-in burger joint. A few species, at some point in their lives, even establish territories areas which they defend against either all intruders or at least members of their own kind. Obviously, in order for these fish to recognize home ranges they have to first learn to differentiate home from non-home. That, in turn, entails learning where the boundaries lie; learning that one rock falls within the range, while another doesn't. But perhaps the most crucial measure of intelligence, and one we humans place a great deal of value on, is associative reasoning. By associative reasoning I mean the ability to learn relationships between objects or events and then applying those relationships to novel situations. Although certainly not as advanced as humans, different fish species are definitely capable of associative reasoning. Take, for example, the results of recent memory tests we did on largemouth bass at the Pure Fishing Fish Research Center. In these tests wherein a group of six bass were free to strike an artificial minnow for as long as they pleased, we could show that after several fruitless attempts to eat the artificial minnow the bass would soon abandon their attacks. In other words, through their failure to get a food reward, the bass quickly learned to ignore what normally looked liked a scrumptious appetizer. But here comes the interesting part. Two weeks later we showed the same bass a second artificial minnow, similar in shape but easily distinguishable from the first. To our surprise the bass hardly touched the second minnow bait, although if we showed it to another group of naïve bass they would pound away at it just like the first group did on the original minnow. Clearly the experienced bass remembered their wasted efforts from the first time around and transferred that knowledge to an object they had never seen before. We had created bass impervious to minnow baits. So how long did the bass retain their memory? For at least three months thereafter, which was the longest time period we tried. I personally have little doubt they bear the memory of their experience to this day and will probably do so for the rest of their lives. Not bad for an animal that's never taken a college entrance exam!

Is this your log Chris, or the whole clubs inputs. Keeping track offers valuable insight. Very good info Chris.

That cute chart can be found in 100's of areas. Is it correct, well not since the guy caught the new lake record earlier this year on Amistad which will be the #27 spot in Texas. What it does say, fish over 15 lbs that has been reported, are caught primarilly in the pre and spawn time frame with the fall topping 2nd or 3rd spot and not post spawn. Nothing primitive about facts. We have to learn to try to interpret their behavior on our terms. That is done with tagging efforts, the same fish being caught more than once, will tell how old, when let go, growth, area of original release, area caught second time. By the way Toledo Bend is a little bigger than that guys 55 acre pond, like 75 miles long and 184,000 acres. The fish that have been tagged and released and caught again taught me more on big fish movements than Doug Hannons under water bass films. Shocking allows us to take DNA samples. What does this tell us, Glad you ask, primitive guesswork from my state Biologists said that last years sharelunker from Fork was stocked 9 yrs ago. DNA from the shocking survey said her momma was a sharelunker also, 10 yrs ago. See what primitive guess work showed. A sharelunker from a share lunker, genes, the study of genes. What else can shocking and DNA tell us. The life expectancy on that body of water with those current lake conditions. The ratio of native bass to stocked bass, the percentage of offspring, 50/50 cross, the blood line is 30% native and 70%fla. Science is doing more in Tx, and I appreciate that. The genes from a sharelunker are showing up, its working. Course you guys have seen the results posted the last few weeks. 39.66 lbs on 5 fish, 1 tourney, 28.22 on 5 Sat. George, my facts aren't opinions, they are facts based on scientific study, study of fish habits, and common sense tells us, the best chance to catch a hog is when she is fulliest of eggs, and easiest when she spawns because 90% of the lake is remove from the equation. Doesn't say much for smarts for the fish. ETS is just a web the guides and merchants use to post info on lake Fork. Every piece of the puzzle, shockings, taggings, electronic tags that track fish year around, gene studies, are they schoolers when juvies, are they schoolers as adults? Did they leave an area?, Do they spawn in same creek every year, same cove in the same creek, same creek, same cove, same stump? If we went to Fayettville County power plant lake, 2400 acres, you catch 40 bass, I'll bet you half of those bass have 3-4 hook marks in their mouths. They get caught that much. Is it stupidity? Or survival, don't eat, don't live!!!!!

I might be inclined to agree if you tell me what the new speeds will be. I'm not going back to 30mph with 200 hrs to feed. If the majority of the USA did also, boat makers would have a cow. No more need for 70mph bass boats, Profits would fall, maybe less sponsor money to be had on the fishing tour. What about jet ski's? Too much money to be lost if lakes adhere to new speed limit laws. Out in San Diego Ca. , they have fish only days and ski only days, some of the ski only days are weekends also, they make more money on a ski boat, than a fishing boat. Skiing requires 3 people, one to drive, one to ski, one to hold the flag up when skier is down in the water. So, thats 1 lake permit, one launch fee, and 3 user fees. Don't start something you aren't ready to live with, the example of what happened to in Ca. Imagine wanting to fish 200 yards stretch of bank no more than 200 yds from marina on the left, but due to skiing, all boat traffic goes counter-clockwise and only ccw. Staying to the outside and slowly working your way clock wise just got you a ticket, expensive one at that. Bouys are set up for you to travel ccw, yes you can get into a creek arm and escape, but main lake points and areas are effected. Every one has equal rights to fish or ski. Best we educate our selves before the local government put their .02 cents in.

There have been numerous studies done in central and southern bodies of water with electronic tracking devices studing the patterns of large fish. Similar facts on T-Bend and their tagging efforts have already given important data. Too much money has been spent on designing new lakes, lures, electronics, and genetics to say its "primitive guesswork". If you saw this weekends episode of Gone fishin with Jerry Mckinnis, you saw some of todays youth using modern education to create the perfect bass fishery, nothing primitive and no guess work. Science at its best!! Texas Top 50 Bass, http://www.ets-systems.com/lakefork/top50.htm You can be the judge of when these fish were caught, most being PRE Spawn and spawn. Only 5 of these fish were caught post spawn, month of may, june. Nothing primitive on those numbers or guess work on these facts. Sorry George, don't dispute your expertise, but my facts for my state and beliefs differ.

Kathy Magers and Debra Hengst are two Texas ladies that don't need a man in their boat when it comes to catching fish. Sticking fish with a variety of methods is not a problem for either women.

Rolo, the majority of the 15 lb fish were caught in the spring, ie..... shallows equal spawn. The same in Texas and I would imagine Fla also. Most trophies in the top 50 in Texas fall victim to pre spawn and spawn. Most lake records are caught in the area of the dams, some of the deepest waters are located near the dam areas. Saying 99.9% don't ever grow over 12 lbs, ???ok, Well, the greatest % of the bass fishermen are bank beaters. And if half would fish off shore structure, I'm sure those numbers of trophies being caught would grow on some lakes.

Birds of a feather flock together. Whatever reason we found this forum, I think people alike surround themselves with good people. Like this forum!!!! Heres to Roadwarrior!

It took me a long time to stomach the NFL celebrations also, it wasn't part of the game back then. Does it mean the people are bad for dancing? Not hardly, some have done some off the field stuff to make some appear to be thugs. But not all are bad. Mike has crossed a fence in a sport, just like football atheletes have done. What this role model does is less harm to a person eyes than all the other sports. The subject matter is "Role Models" and #6 hated" my opinion is there are a lot worse out there, and the TV market that watches Ike on his prime time hour on TV is Saturday mornings with adults and a few kids. I bet the kids watch more MTV2 or other TV shows. Whether he's really hated, I don't care, he's made the final cut like KVD, that gets you an extra day of TV exposure. If the other competitors, who like to say Mike gets more TV air Time because of his Loud celebrations, well if they would fish better ane qualify ahead of him once in awhile, that would certainly shut down some of the EXTRA TV time and his outlandish celebrations. Mike is doing something smart, he is appealing to a younger fishing audience than any other pro has done. He is on their(youths) level. There is nothing Mike is doing that would make your kid do drugs, steal, lie, or cheat. Why would you not want Mike to be a role model compared to Mike Tyson, Owens, Spears, Artest, and others? To cater to the youth, you will offend some old schoolers. Mike teaches "NEVER GIVE UP".

Folks if Ike was the only the thing my kids saw compared to MTV, MTV2, and the rest of the 1000 stations available. Terrell Owens and other NFL role models, NBA, Rappers, Rock stars all probably get more TV time than Ike and Sat. morning airtime. Ikes going Ike is mild compared to the other millions of role models. Ike or Beevis and ButtHead Ike or T.O. Ike or MLB and Steriods Ike or Dennis Rodman Ike or Ron Artest Ike or MTV Ike or Jerry Springer Is what IKE doing that bad as compared to other sports and TV idols? Sometimes he goes overboard with his small fish. But, other than that, what is he exactly doing that makes him a bad role model compared to the Brittany Spears, Mike Tyson, and others who get more air time than Mike does?

May I order the special also please. Notes over easy. Glad you got your monies worth. You looked jazzed in those pictures. If you could have only one picture, who would you choose one , or one big group photo?

We must have been looking at this all wrong. Texas has always ranked in the lowest percentile concerning the quality of education. The schools our bass goes to are run by liberials, thus they must be dumb. A joke. LOL Find out where your state ranks in education, he who has the best schools must have the smartest bass. Are your bass drop outs too??????

I have seen tank demos with nothing smaller than 8 lbers, I have seen some of the same fish get caught for 7 days straight, 10 different demos a day. Doesn't show alot of memory retention. Studies have shown a fish can be conditioned for a while to certain noises and colors, but will un-condition them selves as time passes. How many times have we stuck the same fish bedding. I have witnessed numerous bass being caught several times in minutes apart only to be caught again later. Why does a 15lber get to be 15? Lucky to survive the guys hook who was fishing for supper, lives in 25-35 ft of water year around in the center of the lake, the least pressured spot, more bank beaters in bass fishing than off shore deep structure guys. If every fishermen went out for two weeks straight and concentrated on deep off shore contour and structure, you would see a lot of trophy class fish caught in that two week period. 65% of the fishermen I see are bank beaters, dock flippers, fishing the shallow grass edges. The door of opportunity is soon to be opening with spawn coming, trophies will move to an area making them easier to locate.

I think he is sixty or close to it. I think he earned some down time. He's already been doing what the young guns are trying to do for over 35 yrs. Thats not only fishing, but operating his business, seminars, taping shows, hunting, and his commercials. The man has been involved in every aspect of the outdoor industry. He's got more experience than half the competitors ages. Don't be thinking he got long in the tooth and can't cut it no more, his mind tells him he can compete, but its the physical aspect of travel and fishing, he doesn't re-cooperate as fast as the younger guys. Roland was one of the pioneers who has helped BASS' roots to grow. All I can say is "thanks for opening some doors for others to follow through". Thanks, Matt

The best fishermen is the versitile fishermen. He can read new waters and make it produce. Most trophy fishermen are territorial, fish the same region, same waters their wholelife. I call that homefield advantage, prove that same skill in 10 states instead of 1. Big fish are nice and welcome here anytime. But exclusively fishing for them full time doesn't not constitute who the best bass fishermen is. just one phase of fishing. Why do you think Tournaments started? To prove who the best fishermen are. Choose your weapon and fish. How many tournaments are won with 2 fish weighing in at 20lbs. How many days would a swim bait chunker make the cut on tour? I don't see too many big bass experts making a living on tour. How many trophy hunters qualified for the Classic last year, the year before that, and ........ We already have a system in place to decide this question, its called tournaments. The answer was Rick Clunn, the 4 time Classic winner and I don't classify him as a trophy hunter, but he does display the same mental attitude required to persue them.

Ever three weeks or as the next front approaches. LOL, I know we have lots of new faces around, and I'm getting better at finding this stuff.

If you are looking for something to help hide fry and baitfish, you can't beat cedar and Xmas Trees, nice and tight, will last about 2-3 years before you will need to add to them. If you are trying to establish vegitation, we used T-posts in the shallow areas wrapped in chicken wire to keep the fish out, only minnow and alike sizes could swim through the openings. Its nice ideal, but untill the carp are thinned, the vegitation once restarted will only get eaten away as soon as grow out side the wire.

Try these http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1103228700 http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1137692024

This is some what of a trick Question. Theres alot more to fishing than landing the fish. We have all read enough to know chasing true trophy class bass can go days without catching one at times and some days the magic is in the air and numerous trophies are landed. Being able to read the lake, make changes on the fly, sometimes under pressure to produce a bass consistently takes a skilled angler, just as handling and landing quality trophies. The question is who is better, and I think the all around angler is the better. Being capable of studying a lake and game planning a trophy day or tournament day, they both require different mind sets and approaches. Mr Murphy goes out on the week and lands one of his 12 lb bass. Nice, what he has is another memory of a 12 lb bass and not his goal of another true monster bass for his four days of fishing. TO (Tak) goes out for the week at the Classic and consistently finds fish, changing baits each day to adjust to the weather and clouds, tweeking his patterns from finese plastics to crankbaits while the clock is ticking. For four days straight he's having to make adjustments and put weight in his boat. He won the Classic, does this make him better than Bill Murphy? Would this settle who is better. Tak weighed in 40 lbs in 4 days, Mr Murphy had 25 pounds on 4 days. Different mind sets, different goals, but each had to display some knowledge and skill to accomplish eaches goals. My vote goes to the guy who displayed the most skill to accomplish his goal!!! A guy that goes to numerous lakes a year, not some guy whos camped out on the same 3-4 lakes all year. If Bill Murphy came to the James River for Four days, and Rick Clunn was to compete against him on the same days, most weight wins as normal tournament rules apply. Rick Clunn waxes him. Reverse the roles and let Rick go the Cal. Rick still has a chance to put more weight in the boat in 4 days as Bill Murphy. I'm gonna go with a tournament angler, he hardly ever gets home field advantage, always fishing new waters, has to perform under various weather conditions, where the other doesn't have to leave his home on bad weather days. One gets his own bed every night, one travel. One sees his family on a normal basis, the other doesn't. Which guy has to produce under pressure? Which one doesn't.

While searching to book a guide, those questions need to be discussed before booking if that is a problem to you. Its that simple and easy, communicate.

Here in Tx, I have always heard that a smallmouth is the hardest fighting fish pound for pound. There are times in the summer, when the water has been super heated and the oxygen levels are poor, a 9lb LMB doesn't fight as hard, and can be hard to revive in the hot, oxygen poor waters. Take that same 9lber in the fall when water temps have dropped and the oxygen levels are no longer depleated, and you think you got a record fish. Most smallmouth fishermen use spincast equipment, a smaller lb test line than us baitcasters use. So equipment, drag settings, time of the year, oxygen levels, surface temps, and steady supply of food will all play some part in the fight. Here in Texas, we have a spot, guadalupe cross, we like to call MEAN MOUTH. Those meanmouths are mean and fiesty, as a Brazos river guide explained it to me, "Texas' answer to smallmouth, one of the fightingest fresh water fish alive". Whether or not the smallmouth is the hardest fighter, it has always been portrayed to be the hardest fighter. Thats what I've always heard since the 70's.

Mom and Dad both took me fishing, mom and I did more bass fishing than any other type. My mom has taken numerous bass trips to Mexico in the 70's. My Dad was the one who let me throw a "plug" as he called them when I was going into the second grade on Amistad. Been "pluggin" every since. Thank you Mom and Dad.