Way2slow

It's not an overnight wham bam thank you mam. The biggest problem was when they first started using flotation foam in them, they used open cell foam because it's lighter weight and has a higher floatation value than closed cell, and just sealed the top of it. As it aged, it developed cracks in the sealant. A lot of the early boats just let the floor drain, drain right on top of the foam, thinking with the sealant, they were good to go. A lot of people didn't raise their bow so the boat had a good drain out the back, so every rain let it soak up a little more. It's a slow process for it to get saturated and even a slower process for one to dry out, if it even will. The closed cell foam can get some saturation but usually less the 10% and because it's mostly surface area that gets saturated, it can dry out over time.

Checking the foam for being waterlogged is a good starting point but there are a multitude of other things that will cause performance problems. A high five is not a speed prop per say but might be a good choice on that boat because they generally give about the most bow lift of any prop. Bow lift is the first thing you have to achieve when wanting a boat to go faster. If it's not lifting the bow, enough to have the spray coming out behind the seats. This can also be a very expensive adventure. Besides the foam, I will list a few things you will need to look at. 1st is the engine; it has to be the max horsepower the hull is rated for. Even 25 hp below max rating will cause a significant reduction in speed. Then the motor has to be making the hp is supposed to and be propped so it will redline the rpm at WOT. If it seems to be running good, doesn't mean it's making full horsepower. Make sure the throttle is fully advancing by checking the butterflies, the timing is properly set, the compression is good and even on all cylinders. A two-stroke motor can down or weak on a cylinder and you don't notice it, other than the RPM is low or it takes a lot smaller prop to get it up to RPM. Then you have to look at engine setback and prop height. The leading edge on the lower unit needs to be about 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 inches per foot of boat length back from bottom edge of the pad. On heavy, hard to lift hulls, like the Ranger, don't think you need it 1-1/2 inches below the pad, a lot of times you have to run the motor a lot deeper. I've had boats that had to have the motor as much as 5" below the pad. You have to check the hull and make sure it's not damaged from not being set properly on the trailer and is straight and flat. Then you get to go down that rabbit hole of finding just the right prop. The best thing you can do is find someone like me that knows what the hell they are doing because you can chase your butt in all kinds of circles and waste a ton of money trying to get one properly set up. I took a guys old Stratos 201 with a 200 Johnson from 58 mph with two people in it to a touch over 78 with two people in it, of course when done with that 200, it was over 300hp, but I no longer do that crap.

A couple things you can do. If you can find the dry hull weight, take everything you can out of the boat, go find a truck stop that has drive-on scales and weigh vehicle and all. Go launch the boat and go back and weigh everything again minus the boat. Using that weight, deduct the weight of the motor and anything else left on/in the boat. If all is good, the weight you get after all the deductions should be the same as the dry hull weight. Another thing you can do, most older boats have a floor drain at your feet near the seats. Alot of those just drain in on the foam. Takes the cover off the drain and dig down into the foam down to the hull and see if it's wet. Use a can of GeatStuff to fill in where you dug. Now, unless you are willing to spend a few thousand dollars to fix it, it's just going to be for peace of mind. Older boats used open cell foam and when it got saturated from being stored outdoors, it pretty much holds onto. To get it out, you pretty much have to take the cap off and the floor out and dig it out. The worst one I've seen was an 89 Stratos 285 Pro. I pulled close to 300 pounds out it. I have seen people just cut the floor out but that only gives access to less than half of it. There's more foam under the seats and back than just the floor section. Also, if the foam is saturated, the stringers and transom most likely have some rot also, so unless you know what you are doing and do the work yourself, it's not financially feasible to repair it. Doing the work yourself , the way materials have gone up, you are still looking at a fair chunk of money. I hope this is not a boat you have recently purchased, thinking you got a good deal, but maybe it will be dry and just has some serios rigging and setup problems. Those early Rangers were a problem to get bow to lift and carry the hull up.

Actually, the problem is normally caused by the fact the inner strands are rusted and causing a lot of drag on the inner housing. The trans flued and brake fluid help break down some of the rust and put a small amount of lubricant on the inners. What can happen, even though I've never seen it but once, but that once was enough to scare the total crop out of the operator, the rust can cause one of the inner strands to break and jam the cable up inside. Creating a total lack of being able to turn the wheel. That could ruin your day.

As mentioned, single cables are usually only used on boats with less than about 100hp. Dual cables are usually used on larger motors because of the extra strain placed on the cables. They are also used because in their push/pull configuration they can be adjusted for zero sloop in the steering, critical for faster boats to help control chine walk, (which this you don't have to worry about). Both do need to be replaced for the safety aspect. As a temporary measure, you can pull the ends out of the motor and keep working a blend of ATF and brake fluid into the. Sometimes this helps for a while but the fact you have to pull the motor back from the boat on a lot of them usually doesn't make it worth the effort when you can buy a new pair of cables for around $300 and just go ahead and replace them. However, if you have to pay a shop to replace them, that price will probably triple. Then I would look at upgrading it to hydraulic steering. They are not a big deal to install, by someone that can read and follow directions. Cables can be a pain in the butt to replace, insuring you have full travel in both directions. The model and length are usually in small letters about a foot or so from the helm end but can be hard to see.

Once upon a time, you could get that plastic wire loom that was not split, I used that. You might could use the split and put a couple small tie wraps to keep it closed together.

About 15 years ago I had a jon boat come screaming by me when I was cruising along at 60. Thinking what the heck, I was going to catch up to him to see what he was running. At 76mph I was not gaining on him. Later I saw it at the ramp so I asked him about it. It looked to be about 16' - 17' and narrow, he said it was a racing jon he was building. The motor was a Johnson, 3 Cyl, 70hp, that was highly modified, turning 10,000 rpm and he said it was making about 220hp (which I thought was a little exaggerated, but it would fly). Under the right conditions he said he has seen 81mph out of it.

Capt Phil, I am one of those old farts that's why I said that. I'm about due for my third roto rooter on the prostate. My brother just had a new style laser surgery done that's supposed to be one and done I'm going to check into. It's not your standard laser deal, something new and only two places in GA that do it.

I have always kept a pee cup and a roll of TP stored in a ziplock bag in my boats. Never cared for hanging it over the side and advertising to the world what I was doing. Plus, you don't have to worry about old farts with bad prostates peeing in the side of your boat. On my pontoon, I have a 30x36 changing room that hangs from the Bimini top and keep a 5-gallon bucket with plastic bags and a toilet seat stored on it. My wife keeps suggesting that's getting upgraded to one of the portable potties, even though she has never used it. I prefer the bucket because you don't have to mess with changing and cleaning that chemical crap as with the portable potty. You just fold the bag over and put another one in on top of that one, leaving the first one around the top so you just grab it and take everything out and dispose of it.

Can't help you with a black motor lower unit, but I have a strong feeling you might be biting of more than you want to chew trying to replace seals. The one you are looking at is probably the least likely one to be leaking. Usually, the one for the horizontal shaft (prop shaft) that's not pictured in that page is the one because fishing line can get wrapped around the shaft and take it out. I would bet that water pump is long overdue for a replacement, and yes, if water came out of the LU, it's a reason for concern. If the gear oil drained out was still black, it might be something you might just want to monitor next season. If it was brown or creamy colored, then it needs to be taken care of sooner than later. I would go here and post your seal question. Some of the best black motor guys in the country used to hang out there but haven't been posting on that site for a long time so not sure today. https://www.screamandfly.com/forum.php.

If you pay 5X more for a boat than the average guy, that automatically makes you a 5X better fisherman. If you add the $10,000 worth of electronics, that automatically elevates you to a professional level fisherman. Doesn't matter if the guy with his 14' jon boat with a 9.9, and only has a good Sonar, (his whole rig cost less than your TM) catches three times more fish than you. I've never known of a fish that checks out what kind of rig the angler has before he takes his bait. Don't get me wrong, I had hellava lot rather fish out of my Javalin R20DC I had than my 14' jon. With the jon, you feel like you've put in a days work after fishing. With the Javalin, you feel like you had a good day on the water.

When I was a senior in high school (1966) I was taking home $40 a week and bought a new 14" GlassMaster fiberglass boat, 65hp Mercury motor and the trailer for $1,427 drive out price. When I retired in 2011 I was making $1,600 a week. Based on income, that made me pay the equivalent of over $57,000 for that boat in 1966. About twice what I could have bought it for in 2011.

TOXIC, I'm just the opposite, my wife's car, I take very good care of, but my trucks I buy to use, and abuse. I keep my vehicles maintained, but I don't concern myself with keeping the nice and pretty. I will only buy 4WD trucks because I want them to be able to go through places I don't want to walk. A lot of times that means driving over small tree and through limbs hanging off bigger trees. Doing that I not very beneficial for keeping a keeping scratch free, shiny finish on one. My 2500HD is a 6.0 gas engine and only needs one battery, but I run two and a 350-amp alternator because of the 12,000-lb winch that can draw 400 amps, and has saved my butt a number of times. I properly maintain them, but don't hesitate to use and abuse them. As for shop using flat rate manuals. That's common practice. They are geared toward an average mechanic that is probably doing that repair for the first time so an experienced mechanic will get it done much faster. Before I retired, the company I worked for used them but they doubled the hours. The owner said half his mechanics were so bad, they usually had to do the repair twice so he built that into the billing.

I agree, dealers are "usually" the best place to get repair work done, they generally have the knowhow and special equipment most run of the mill shops don't have, but don't think for a second, they are all honest and upfront about their repairs. Seen and heard too many horror stories of what dealers tried to do the customers. For instance, about 10 years ago, I was with my son in a chevy van, traveling in Florida to pick up some furniture he bought. Van died on the expressway about five AM and had it towed to a dealership about 10 miles away. I told him it acted like the crankshaft sensor went out but I had no tools or anything to check it with. I was watching though a large window as they did their thing. The mechanic spent about 20 minutes working on the van and two hours working on anouther vehicle in front of it, then comes back, closes the hood down and backs it out. Then they hand my son a bill for $500 to replace a crankshaft sensor. They were charging $180 for the sensor and three hours labor to replace it. I called their hand on that one. I told them to show me in their computer where that part list for $180 and explain how I stood there and watched their mechanic working on another vehicle for over two hours of that three hours labor. They finally reduced the bill to $260 which was still more than it should have been but not the total screwing they were trying to do.

The kind of customer Car, boat, (ALL) dealerships and service centers love to have. What's the old expression, "bend over, grease up", because it's coming. I'm 75 years old and have never paid anyone do to anything for me, (other than medical, dental etc), but I'm getting to where I have physical limitations and that's scareing the crap out of me. I went to start my 2500HD pickup the other day and the batteries were dead as a hammer, even though it was on a 2-amp maintainer. The relay that controls the 7-amp heater blower went bad and it was constantly running, maintainer couldn't keep up with that. The relay is part of the resistor pack under the dash and because of the arthritis in my neck, I could not get under there to unplug the connector for the blower. I had to cut the wires and splice/solder the new wires to them. It cost me $30, and I was thinking then, if I had to pay for this repair, it would easily have been over $300, when you figure they would charge $100 or more for the part and at least 2 hours minimum for troubleshooting and repair, even though it only took less than a 1/2 hour, and that would have been from a somewhat honest shop (and those are rare). Plus, one of the batteries (I run two big AGM's) was bad and should be replaced as a pair which would have been another $500-$600, where I can get them for $165 each.

The only reason I sold it is I'm 75, mostly had to go by myself, and it was a 250-mile round trip to the lake I liked to fish and cost me close to $200 in gas each trip, 2500HD only got 9-10 mpg towing it. It was sitting a year at the time, at times. I just decided my jon boat would be good enough for what little I was fishing and I could tow it with my 93 4WD Toyota.

I sold my Renegade 20DC last year after close to 15 years of owning it. It had the 225 Ficht and I loved the boat. Road good, took rough water very well, and was rather fast. It ran in the low 70's with two 200+ guys and gear with the 225 Ficht, and 83 with a 3.0 modified Johson (326 Hp). Can't say there is another boat I could wish I had instead of it. As for one being in production vs another means absolutely nothing with boats that age. You can pretty much bet no manufacture still has parts or any kind of support for them.

I can't even sit in my LazyBoy recliner 5 or 6 hours. Even in my 20' bass boat, I took a break every few hours

Thats a fairly simple, basic motor. There are numbers of factory manuals on ebay for around $20 or so 1969 Johnson Outboard Motor Service Manual 25 HP | eBay or you can find you a Clymer manual for it. Crowley Marine is usually a pretty good source for parts. 1969 Outboard 25 [25R69B] - Parts Lookup | Crowley Marine. If you are smart, you will replace the water pump and service the lower unit. The lower units after getting that old are notorious for leaking and it's a good chance it will need new seals and O-rings in it. If it's not full of lube and if the lube is not black and stinks, it probably leaks. It's black because of wear and they seldom ever get serviced.

Darth-Baiter, what you was getting I find to be a very common occurrence, too common. A very good friend of my wife was asking me to help her pick out another car, the shop quoted her more than the value of hers to get the repairs needed done. The biggest single item was the AC, they quoted her $3,000 to repair the AC and with front brakes and a few other things the total was over $5,000 on a 2011 Kia Sorrento. She was going through some hard times and didn't have that kind of money for the repairs they said it needed. Naturally my wife throws in, why don't you just let Keith look at it first. The $3,000 AC cost $235 for a new compressor. I replaced all for brake rotors, new, good quality brake pads, rebuilt the caliper, replaced a U-joint that wasn't on their quote, replace the timing belt that was not on their quote, replace a leaking water pump, and new belts that was not on their quote, replace a bad tie-rod end, serviced the transmission with new filter and fluid that was not on their quote, new plugs and plug wires that was not on their quote and several other small things they had listed and things they didn't. I spent a little over $800 on parts and going by their quote, it would have been over $6,000 by the time they finished with her. That was two years ago, and she has not had a problem with it since. My son took his 2011 2500HD diesel to the dealer because it kept going into the limp home mode. They quoted him $750, saying it was the TPS and the pedal sensor. I fixed it with the $5 tube of dielectric grease. That was six years ago, and it has never given him the problem since.

For towing the boat, a 4WD 2001 Silverado HD2500 with 6.0 gas guzzler. 12.5 mpg on its best day with no load and 10mpg with the boat behind it. For general purpose and towing the jon boat, a 1993 4WD Toyota pickup with 22RE. EFI, 4 cylinder. Even being modified with a better midrange cam, ported head, headers and 2-1/2 exhaust for about 30 more hp and much better midrange torque, it still gets over twice the milage of the HD2500.

What I always liked about my canoe; it was a go anywhere boat, even if you couldn't get a vehicle near where you wanted to fish, you could still get the canoe there. Growing up as a country boy and all kinds of farm ponds and small rivers to fish, that was critical. Farmers would let me fish their ponds, but they didn't want you driving a vehicle across their fields to get to them, and some might not even have a path to them. Even by yourself, it was no problem carrying or dragging the canoe around. One little trick for those not fully trained on canoe use. In a long canoe like my 17' and by yourself. The way you normally sit in one the rear seat is close to the back of the boat, and it makes it difficult to handle without throwing a bunch of weight in the front. To get around that, you use the canoe backwards. The front seat is a little off center from the middle so if you sit in the front seat facing the rear of the canoe, it has much better weight distribution and does not throw the opposite end way up in the air. When you are traveling light pond jumping and don't have a battery and bunch of other junk along, it makes fishing a whole lot better.

Back when I was into this stuff heavy, this used to be the best source for parts. They bought huge amounts of manufactures inventory when they were bought out and shut down. Not sure if they have still been doing that but if they don't have it, it's probably no longer available. Team C&O Marine - New & Pre-Owned Boats, Autos and Trucks, Financing, Parts and Service in White Bluff, TN, near Charlotte and White Oak Flat (candomarine.com)

That's what prop shops are for. The old is pressed out and the new is pressed in. The hub kit you are looking at may be for the newer props that comes with inserts so they can be used on different motors, not for your prop.

I'll make it short, it's not a jon boat and if I had to fish out of that boat, you couldn't give it to me, even if it was delivered to me. If you plan on standing on that front deck, make sure you have a flotation device on and using a rod/reel you don't mind losing.