snake95

I got some walking baits (frog-pattern Livetargets) that are lying over on one side when I'm trying to walk them. They "kick out" to one side and lose the walking cadence. Tried using a snap to the split ring, and direct tied to the nose. Suggestions on how to get them to walk better?

@Brett's_daddy thanks for the feedback. I think this is what is throwing me off about them. Unlike a spook or a skitterwalk they sit tail down. I tried again and see that they can lean to one side or another when sitting close to vertical. That's probably not a bad sign then, its not like it is weighted one way so it is off balance. I found I could get them to walk pretty well with my rod held high, but wouldn't glide side to side as easily with my rod in the normal (low) walking position. I felt like it walked better with a direct tie to the included split ring, rather than with a snap between the line and split ring. I compared it with a skitter walk this morning and found the walking action was different in that it walked better when being pulled at a fairly high speed rather than a slow walk. Any further thoughts or observations on this?

Wondering if anyone can tell me about their experience with the Livetarget frog walking bait. I'm talking about the long spook-like hardbait they sell, not their popular soft frogs. I got a bunch at a sale this week, and took one out this morning. Found it was not very easy to walk and it seemed to sit leaning to one side (it is designed to sit roughly vertical) - maybe there is something off with my particular lure(s)? I was using 15 lb mono and a med-fast 6'-6" rod. MH/fast probably would've been better. They seem to have stellar reviews on the big retailer's sites, so I was expecting more. Maybe I got a bad one, or maybe just need to give it another shot.. If there are any tips or tweaks that should help, I'm interested!

Sass, I have been in two DSG's in the past few days, and they have both had signs up with the deals mentioned. DSG is the only tackle option close to where I live, and so I'm a regular. On trips around the country I've found that the sales are almost always universal from store to store for major product lines: the same sales will be in effect for a given week in GA, FL, NC, etc. Sometimes they make mistakes and either forget to put up a sign, or else the register doesn't ring up as it should based on the sign (less common). What I've found is that the weekly flyer gives a good indication of major sales, but there are usually additional sales that aren't included in the flyer. Also, the same sales are repeated over the course of a year: the last couple of years they've heavily featured Booyah frogs, their own series of "Banshee" baits, Livetarget lures, Kietech, and the Rapala scatter rap and Shadow Rap series, and certain Lucky Craft baits. The sales on these change from time to time, e.g. might be $4 each for certain multiples one week, then $5 each another. This week's prices are about the lowest I have seen per item. As for the DT's, they are not included in the Rapala sale this week, only the Scatter Rap series.

DSG also has LiveTarget frogs and hardbaits on $4 each if you buy 3 or more. I believe sunfish and baitballs are excluded.

Another vote that you are not alone in terms of slow to no bite lately. I would say I've reliably caught 1-4 bass in each 1/2 hr - 1 hr outing, once every few days for the last two months. The last week: one dink in 4 outings. Last week my son caught one of our biggest fish yet. Since then, the bite has completely died off fishing the same spots, using the same methods, at the same time. It's not you.

Rapala Scatter Raps of all types, loathed by some, loved by others, are on sale for $3 each if you buy three or more from DSG; essentially 3 for the price of one. Also, Booyah Pad Crashers, $4 each if you buy 3 or more. Hard to buy just one anyway.

Molay thanks for pointing me to that. I had a feeling I had seen something about that but did not recall where. Also, I was surprised that the lure would actually come with a spot basically ready to put the line tie in. That article should be required reading for all rookie spook anglers like me. Great article.

I have numerous classic Heddon spooks and zara spooks with holes in the nose (at the front tip of the bait). I don't think these are all holes that occur because the baits were damaged (some are used and older, some are new). Is there are reason for this, or is it just a fluke?

Thanks A-Jay: this is getting at what I am hoping to learn more about - when and why would you want to manipulate the hook's position from the body? The obvious things for me would be to avoid tangling or to change the center of gravity on a jerkbait ever so slightly. Are there other reasons?

I have read several articles lately discussing changes to trebles, and potentially adding split rings to adjust the performance and behavior of hardbaits. I'm only just getting in to changing out stock trebles for "upgraded" hooks. I'm not looking for input on sharpening hooks, selecting trebles, or even really upsizing trebles (all topics that are covered well in previous threads). What I am looking for input on is specific to modifying the following hardbaits: - topwaters including walking lures and poppers - crankbaits - jerkbaits For any of these lures: 1. When do you change one or more trebles to modify lure balance and behavior? (Either by changing the size, or perhaps changing the style). For example: Upsizing rear treble on some walking baits to help the lure sit tail-down. Changing the front treble on a crank to a short-shank to help reduce snags. And, related tips: e.g. Ike says in one article to upsize the middle treble on a crank by two sizes, but to upsize the rear by only one size to maintain the original action. 2. When do you modify split rings between the bait and treble? e.g. adding an extra ring on a mid-bait hook, swapping out smaller rings for larger ones, for whatever reason. Thanks for any suggestions and experience with this topic.

I have read several articles lately discussing changes to trebles, and potentially adding split rings to adjust the performance and behavior of hardbaits. I'm only just getting in to changing out stock trebles for "upgraded" hooks. I'm not looking for input on sharpening hooks, selecting trebles, or even really upsizing trebles (all topics that are covered well in previous threads). What I am looking for input on is specific to modifying the following hardbaits: - topwaters including walking lures and poppers - crankbaits - jerkbaits 1. When do you upsize one or more trebles to modify lure balance and behavior? e.g. I read an article quoting KVD saying he likes to upsize rear treble on some walking baits to help the lure sit tail-down, and another where Ike was suggesting to only upsize the middle hook on a crank a full size to avoid a drastic change to the lure's motion. 2. When do you modify split rings between the bait and treble? e.g. adding an extra ring on a mid-bait hook, swapping out smaller rings for larger ones. Thanks for any suggestions and experience with this topic.

Clearly, you've got it working for you thanks to Choporoz. I started fluke fishing this year and had the same experience. On one hand, if it ain't broke, don't fix it! But, here are still a few more ideas to consider: Nose hooking the fluke instead of T-rigging has also worked well for me. I've done that with an octopus or similar hook, particularly when I've been fishing stick baits and decide I want to switch to in order to fish more actively (say, along a shoreline) or to fish close to surface for a bit, without taking the time to switch hooks. I know, switching hooks doesn't take long. But the bait tends to fish closer to surface and has a little different action. Another approach to address the twirling to add a swivel. Some interesting comments in an archived thread on this, and on Zoom's site: http://zoombait.com/2009/08/how-to-rig-zoom-super-fluke/

Thanks everyone who responded, and A-Jay, I am heading out there now to put your sensible approach to the test. So I went and actively thought about this strategy when I went out Sunday. Instead of going with my "favorite" approach - working topwaters - I tried what I thought would be most likely to work: dropping T-rigged craws along the ruins of an old dock, and swimming them past a sunken tree. No bites. I then swam some paddletails close to the likely areas. Then I decided to get more agressive and walked a skitter walk over the tree and near a deep spot where I've had luck. Still nothing. For the heck of it, I tied on a jointed shad rap shallow (with fairly loud rattles) and swam it past the tree and along the shore. Two fish in four casts, when I sped up and burned it. Go figure. Regardless of how things worked out that morning, I would say that A-Jay's strategy just makes sense and I will go with it for most of my pond fishing.

Thanks everyone who responded, and A-Jay, I am heading out there now to put your sensible approach to the test.

I'm looking for thoughts on preferred strategy in terms of progressing from one type of baits to another when fishing ponds or other contained bodies of water (e.g. a small bay). What I mean is starting the first casts with something moving, active, and perhaps noisy (that would draw active feeders and reaction bites, but perhaps spook or even turn off docile or passive feeders) and then using progressively more (or less) disruptive and subtle baits (that would have less tendency to spook, but on the downside might cover less water and be less effective for finding the fish. I've read articles by "experts" saying: Start with something active and aggressive to catch the active fish first, e.g. just as an example, burn a buzzbait, then if no bites, try a jerkbait, then go to a T-rigged worm Or, the complete opposite, start with something "finesse" (such as the worm), and fish close by, then progressively fish more and more active/disruptive baits. For lack of a better term, I guess we are talking about "lure progression." My specific scenario is that I'm fishing a pond early am or late eve, and it is often glass calm. Very limited structure. I've caught on everything from walking baits to senkos. I like to start with a popper or walker then move to a paddletail, then if all else fails try dragging a worm or craw, mainly because I want to catch on topwater and like to crank and wind! I suspect that there is no "right" or "wrong" on this one, but interested in your thoughts.

Awesome write-up. We have the Ned Rig, the Rage Rig, etc. I guess a small frog with big hooks will from now on be referred to as the MB rig? A few more questions: I guess I should go downstairs and open up my frog box and try it out, but I think you just upsize by pulling out the old hooks and sliding in ones from a bigger frog? Or is there a specific double hook you prefer as a replacement?

I used to only fish hardbaits, until I found this site, and starting trying out the things I was reading about. Now, I use softbaits for all kinds of applications - at least 50% of the time I am using soft plastics now. A huge consideration is SNAGS. As an example: you can rig all kinds of soft baits weedless or semi-weedless, and by simply adding a bullet weight, you have a very versatile and simple bait. My favorites include T-rigged craws and paddletails. Both can be tossed into cover with a low probability of snagging. Both can be fished on the surface, in the middle, or on bottom. Either can be burned, swam, hopped, jigged, crawled, and deadsticked. Try finding a hardbait that versatile... If you do snag and lose a bait not much is lost in terms of cost. Perhaps $1.00 or maybe $1.50. You won't feel the same if you snag a $5 to $25 hardbait!

Another key advantage of artificials over live bait is this: you can always have it on hand. The more you fish it, the better you get at it, and then the more you want to use it. Depending on your location, how you fish, etc., maybe getting ahold of live bait is no big deal. For me, it's a huge deal since there are no real bait shops close by, and even then picking up worms at the local Shell station eats up 20-30 min of critical fishing time. Plus, if you are the type of angler that fishes on short notice (ie. a quick pull over on the way home and pop open the trunk to get your rod out) -- you really appreciate having artificals at hand. As Wayne Gretzky is famous for saying "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - same thing with fishing. 30 minutes spent getting bait is 30 minutes not fishing.

Wait, coupon for $10 off $25? Where can I get one of those?! I know the $10 off $50 for doing the survey promotion very well. Too well in fact. It's hard to spend less than about $30 in there where they have a good sale, and at that point, you'd be crazy not to spend an extra $10 to get $50 worth of stuff (sale price) for $40. But $10 off each $25? By the way this week DSG's BOGO 1/2 off extends to Strike King and Zoom in addition to the Rapalas and Keitechs mentioned.

By stained, I meant greenish water with perhaps about 5 ft visibility for a light-colored bait (e.g pink fluke or stickbait). This prompted me to do a thread search - I'd say the consensus is there is no consensus, but I liked Siebert Outdoors' simple definition from way back in 2005: "I would say 4-5 ft visibility would be stained anything more clear anything less muddy." (Incidentally, just caught another in a separate lake with a nose-hooked pink fluke, allowed to flutter down - hit at the bottom of the drop).

Not exactly the same, but a weightless pink fluke worked for me today. Stained yellow/brown water, hot, prob 80's water temps, later afternoon. Worked in the same spot I'd just pulled out a bass on a purple senko rigged on a 1/8 oz lead weedless senko hook.

Guys, many thanks for the input and experience. In terms of rods and lures, this is a situation where I've basically got what I've got and have to make the best of it. To add to the information: the only parameter I have to work with is the line, and of course I can adjust the reel to some degree, and select from the pile of baits I have at hand. The rod I'm working with is Abu's MHF Volatile in the 8-ft version, says rated 1/2-3 oz, 12-25 lb line. This puts the mid-range at 1.75 oz. I looked closer and would revise the predominant weight of the baits to between 1 oz and 1.75 oz, so on the lower half of the range for the rod. (I also have a long spinning rod on this trip, but I don't know the specs off hand). Bottom line is I'm experimenting with what I can get my hands on, and maybe doing some misguided or even downright crazy rookie things, but I figured at least I can adjust the line and reel and make the best of it. http://www.abugarcia.com/abugarcia-rods-casting-rods/abu-garcia-volatile-casting-rod/1365053.html#specifications

Thanks John. Honestly, I'm a rookie and appreciate everyone's experience. So far by trial and error I found that the elasticity of mono helps me with hooksets on poppers and walking baits, with braid my hookup rate is much lower. I have been trying L and L and might just go the route you are suggesting and hold off on the braid.

Thanks for the suggestions: Yes I will seriously consider sending to DVT in the future. I won't get a chance before I go on my long-bombing mission. The reel I intend to use is a brand new Daiwa Coastal TWS, though I've been using a Revo SX for attempting long distances lately. Interesting that you are going so far with mono. I know there is a range of opinions on this topic, but with only about a year with walking baits under my belt I've decided that I generally prefer mono for that application. I was intending to switch to braid with a mono leader on the new reel for distance reasons. At the risk of hijacking the thread I started here... I'm interested if someone would make a different line choice for long-bombing walking baits for this application?