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Koppers Live Target Bait Ball Crankbaits

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You guys got to see these Koppers Live Target Bait Ball Crankbaits when Glenn posts them on the Forum.

 

Totally new concept.

 

I have no idea if they will produce strikes but they are really different.

 

You can try to find them on the Internet if you are really good with your searching expertise.

 

If you find them let us know what you think.

 

And post a pic or two for us to view.

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You guys got to see these Koppers Live Target Bait Ball Crankbaits when Glenn posts them on the Forum.

 

Totally new concept.

 

I have no idea if they will produce strikes but they are really different.

 

You can try to find them on the Internet if you are really good with your searching expertise.

 

If you find them let us know what you think.

 

And post a pic or two for us to view.

 

 

Not new at all and I will not be trying them. One of the big custom lure painters... cant think of his name right now... painted some exactly like that and showed them off last spring. Now koppers "designs" this revolutionary idea that is an absolute dead ringer to his. They of course gave no credit to the man they knocked off. 

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I saw them on tackle tour's Facebook page and they are definitely unique.  I am sure they will sell and produce like pretty much any crankbait.  I can't see the detail on there making much of a difference as a bait goes past a fish at speed and wobbling.  Cranks to me are more about color on the top and bottom and not sure i have had any better success with baits with more detail on the paint scheme.

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Not new at all and I will not be trying them. One of the big custom lure painters... cant think of his name right now... painted some exactly like that and showed them off last spring. Now koppers "designs" this revolutionary idea that is an absolute dead ringer to his. They of course gave no credit to the man they knocked off.

Unless they contracted the original creator to make it for them, or bought the patent/idea. That's legit. Strike King did that with their "Custom Shop" crankbaits. they hired a guy who made balsa and sold on ebay to make cranks for them under their label. You don't know (and neither do I).

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Didnt say it wasnt legit. Its just not very ethical. The custom lure guy said it perfectly. He doesnt have the money to sue koppers and they were banking on that. It really is a straight up copy.

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I saw them on tackle tour's Facebook page and they are definitely unique.  I am sure they will sell and produce like pretty much any crankbait.  I can't see the detail on there making much of a difference as a bait goes past a fish at speed and wobbling.  Cranks to me are more about color on the top and bottom and not sure i have had any better success with baits with more detail on the paint scheme.

 

It's very hard to tell if this is an ethical issue or not from where we stand.  There was a ton of bashing of Skeet Reese and the Sick Fish for the longest time.  It took the owner of the Trash Fish who actually came out and exposed that he sold the design to Berkley Havoc and Skeet to build the Sick Fish.  Before that everyone thought it was flat out stolen from them.

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Pictures of the lures ... interesting.

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post-40875-0-03986100-1373459690_thumb.j

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There are already comments of people saying LiveTarget stole this idea from so and so. Well if it is a stolen idea, why didn't the originator get it patented and licensed? It's the same locker room gossip every year.  This new baitball is a neat concept, but nothing WOW's me about it. I love LiveTarget from cranks to frogs. I think they make amazing stuff. I'll be interested to see what else they have but this isn't a game changer in my eyes. 

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Felix, thanks for posting the pics.

 

They look to me that the crankbait has smaller crankbaits inside the shell and the crankbaits are not painted on the sides.

 

Can not really tell by the pics so waiting for Glenn's information.

 

I did think they were unique and had no idea this has alrady be tried.

 

Thanks to all for posting and bringing us up to date.

 

Should be interesting to see them in the stores.

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Felix, thanks for posting the pics.

 

They look to me that the crankbait has smaller crankbaits inside the shell and the crankbaits are not painted on the sides.

 

Can not really tell by the pics so waiting for Glenn's information.

 

I did think they were unique and had no idea this has alrady be tried.

 

Thanks to all for posting and bringing us up to date.

 

Should be interesting to see them in the stores.

 

From what I have read these lures are built with a new clearer plastic and the baitfish inside are not painted on but actually 2-3 shaped components somehow put within the clear lure.  So the baitfish are shaped like baitfish.  I cannot even imagine the amount of engineering that went into getting the weights and shapes of those little baitfish into these lures.

 

Interesting concept ... truly makes the technology geek in me jump for joy!  Only time will tell if it will catch fish.  It certainly caught this fishermen.  LOL

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There are already comments of people saying LiveTarget stole this idea from so and so. Well if it is a stolen idea, why didn't the originator get it patented and licensed? It's the same locker room gossip every year.  This new baitball is a neat concept, but nothing WOW's me about it. I love LiveTarget from cranks to frogs. I think they make amazing stuff. I'll be interested to see what else they have but this isn't a game changer in my eyes. 

 

 

I'm sure it would take a LOT of money to hire a patent lawyer to do the paperwork to patent it. Not even close to being worth it unless you have the mfg all lined up and several big distributors already on the hook. Then there is the part about defending it... a patent does not stop another company from making them, it just gives you legal grounds for a lawsuit. The money to hire a lawyer (a GOOD one) to take someone like koppers to court over it would bankrupt most people. I doubt 90% of the people on this board could afford to sue them. 

 

That is why you don't see these normal guys like you and I out designing and patenting lures, its just not financially possible. 

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Felix, thanks for posting the pics.

 

They look to me that the crankbait has smaller crankbaits inside the shell and the crankbaits are not painted on the sides.

 

Can not really tell by the pics so waiting for Glenn's information.

 

I did think they were unique and had no idea this has alrady be tried.

 

Thanks to all for posting and bringing us up to date.

 

Should be interesting to see them in the stores.

This is what it looks like to me as well. I haven't read much about them yet.

 

I'm gonna wait until they hit the market and people start getting some reviews out on how they do in the water before I jump all over them.

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Live target has some good concepts and designs to make lifelike lures, but they are expensive and other than their frogs, Ive never caught a fish on their baits. My guess is they charge alot due to the detail and the fact you probably wont buy another. They were one of very few companies that made a wild golden shiner lure I was looking for as they are a common baitfish here. Never a bite! Every other crank ive used has caught something. Dont see alot of pros throwing the name out either now that I think of it. For $4 less id rather use kvd frogs with weight and rattles.

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Pretty neat idea. If they don't catch fish they will deffinately look good sitting around the tackle table LOL.

 

I am pretty sure I read the same article you did Felix and yes that concept of small baits inside big bait and to run in the water with a action that will make fish eat it is a super engineering deal right there.

 

Has anyone heard a price?

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actually you can't patent a paintjob on a lure...

 

the name and design of the bait yes. but not the paint job in and of itself

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I'm sure it would take a LOT of money to hire a patent lawyer to do the paperwork to patent it. Not even close to being worth it unless you have the mfg all lined up and several big distributors already on the hook. Then there is the part about defending it... a patent does not stop another company from making them, it just gives you legal grounds for a lawsuit. The money to hire a lawyer (a GOOD one) to take someone like koppers to court over it would bankrupt most people. I doubt 90% of the people on this board could afford to sue them. 

 

That is why you don't see these normal guys like you and I out designing and patenting lures, its just not financially possible. 

Your post is completely inaccurate. Being a business owner, I'm aware of lawyer fees and everything else associated with running a business. With that said, your "assumptions" have zero credibility considering you started your post with "I'm sure...". That means you don't know....so don't assume.

Back to the topic, the Koppers bait is in a 3 dimensional mold. It's not painted. That is the major difference between the "original" designer and what Koppers has produced. They took it a step further than a paint job. 

Look at the isles at Bass Pro or wherever you shop. EVERYTHING is some sort of copy or rendition of something else already done whether it was last years innovation or 50 years ago. There are literally 1000's of the same type of bait with different labels, colors, scents to make them "original" or "unique". 

 

If you think you have a million dollar idea, you best get it patented and protected. Even if you don't have the funds to do it yourself, someone out there will BUY your idea.

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 you started your post with "I'm sure...". That means you don't know....so don't assume.

 

 

Seriously? "I'm sure" means I don't know? What backwards world do you live in? 

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I'm sure it would take a LOT of money to hire a patent lawyer to do the paperwork to patent it. 

This means you don't know what the costs are. It's an assumption. Exactly what I stated before. I'm not hear to argue so I'll leave it at that. 

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Very cool concept, definitely not just a paint job. I think I read the Bait Balls will retail for $19.99.

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This is the lure originally by Twisted Customz. Kenneth Rollston is the owner. He made this up in 2012 and has pics up on his FB page.

 

sb07it.jpg

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This means you don't know what the costs are. It's an assumption. Exactly what I stated before. I'm not hear to argue so I'll leave it at that. 

 

 

No, it means I am sure of it. I designed a pike jerkbait two years ago and researched how to patent it. I talked to several people about it, even A PATENT LAWYER. He got back to me and said it would be roughly $20,000 to write up the paperwork and file the patent once its all set and done. He even advised me that if I did not have at least 4 times that much already banked there is no way I could defend it if need be. 

 

Like I said, you need to have everything in order to go straight into production and big box retail to make your money back. For a small time guy it is not worth it, you are much better off going to a company with your design for sale and hope they don't say no and then knock it off. 

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There is a write up on ***

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I just looked up the bait ball lures and they all look sick. The crank bait looks cool, but the jerk bait looks crazy!!

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There is a youtube vide of dave mercer claiming that bass have always thought a single crankbait is a school of baitfish. You've got to be kidding me. A bass bites a crank because it goes running past it and it doesn't want it getting away. IMO, 99% of crankbait hits are reaction bites. Just another thing to catch fishermen.

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