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loudcherokee

How does rod speed/action affect sensitivity?

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So I'm thinking of picking up a heavy rod with an extra fast action for flipping grass and heavy weeds/vegetation. I'm also thinking of having this rod double as my bottom contact t-rig/jig fishing rod. 

From what I could find, the heavier the power, the less sensitive the rod is, however, I also read that the faster the action the more sensitive the rod.

Would the extra fast tip offset the heavy power when it comes to affecting the sensitivity?

Should I just keep using my 7'1" MH/F rod for bottom contact baits instead of the H/XF?

LC

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:fishing:

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You will most likely get a range of opinions on this one.  My opinion is that heavy power is not a big sensitivity reducer, maybe not at all.  I also believe, from experience, that all else being equal, the faster the action the better the sensitivity.  My definition of sensitivity is the ability to detect information transmitted from the lure.  I think your proposal for a rod, given that it is a high quality graphite, will work fine as you propose.

One of the biggest things you can do for sensitivity is to use braid line.  Some do this without a leader, others use either mono or FC leaders.  I prefer FC believing that if you're putting something on to reduce visibility, nothing does it better than FC.  If you plan to use the outfit for surface lures, use mono instead-it doesn't sink.

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Got nothing to do with sensitivity. 

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I've heard some say an ultra-light rod is more sensitive. I've heard others say the heaviest power rods are more sensitive. They're probably both correct, and I don't believe either one. Sensitivity is the most over-hyped, over-marketed, over-propagandized term in this industry. and we've all drunk that koolaid to a certain extent. Being a completely subjective property; it is virtually meaningless. For every person who claims "this" rod is most sensitive, there are some who will claim "that" rod is the one,, and some more who go for the "other" rod. Again, they're probably all correct, and I don't believe any of them. I do believe that all other things being equal, a lighter rod is more sensitive. Starting with the same blank, build one to match a factory rod, and build the second with a lighter reel seat / handle assembly, and smaller, lighter and fewer guides(most rods have too many guides), and the second rod will out-perform the first. I believe that because I've done that. And last, I think part of the differences of opinions on which is the most sensitive, other than fanboy adoration, is the way each person holds the rod while fishing. Which is in part a personal preference, to some extent dictated by the reel mounted at that time. to the OP, these dyas, if you spend $100+ you're going to get a rod that will do the job nicely. Buy waht feels good to you, with the reel mounted. Then it's up to you to get the most out of it.

Sorry folks, I don't know what happened with that post. I had sectioned out in paragraphs, and it posted as one block. weird

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sensitivity is in your hands, a $400 rod is really no more sensitive than a $50 rod...

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There is validity to sensitivity being in the hands but there is most definitely a difference in rods. Less between price points as you near top end but $50 Rod is no match for a $400 one. Not to say the lesser won't catch fish but the experience will be different and some things will go undetected.

as for the OP power has no affect on sensitivity in and of itself. Action may have limited affect in certain applications. The single biggest factor sensitivity wise is weight to stiffness ratio hence the rise of high modulus graphite. 

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Weight to stiffness, resins, and scrim material. If all rods in a line up are made with the same materials and components, a medium heavy should offer the same level of sensitivity as a medium light, as long as you're using the rod for its intended purpose not too much below or above the rod is designed and can actually handle for maximum effectiveness. For quick pick ups where you need to set as soon as the fish picks up your bait, an extra fast can be beneficial and may transmit that strike a little quicker. Other techniques where you need to wait for the fish to take your offering in full and with a lift and reel set, a lesser fast action will serve you better. Right tool for the job should be your 1st concern. If the rod has a reputable blank, minimal components, and a quality build, sensitivity is generally 6 in one, half dozen in the other. I'm not saying there aren't dead rods in the bunch, but for the most part judging sensitivity within low, mid, and high price ranges is subjective and can be hard to tell too much of a difference. 

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I wouldn't change using your 7'1" MH/F for bottom contact baits (except cranks).It can be used for a larger number of baits and presentations than a H/XF.  Overall weight and balance will add/subtract to sensitivity, unlike a firearm where extra weight reduces felt recoil.

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Thanks for replying guys.

I do wish there was a way we could reliably test sensitivity. Maybe with some kind of vibration sensors mounted to the rod where the hand is held, and a repeatable tapping or pulling of an attached line with no variables. I mean, technology has brought us as far as sticking vibrating lights in a rechargeable lure, why no reliable scientific  method to testing sensitivity, taking the human variable out of the equation?

LC

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22 minutes ago, loudcherokee said:

I do wish there was a way we could reliably test sensitivity. Maybe with some kind of vibration sensors mounted to the rod where the hand is held, and a repeatable tapping or pulling of an attached line with no variables.

This is how I test a rod's sensitivity: I take a 10" piece of whichever line I'll be using on the rod and tie it to the tip of the rod on the last guide. Then I close my eyes and have somebody flick the piece of line.  Of course this is just quick test without a way to quantify the actual sensitivity, but its something. I have to say, there is a clear difference from rod to rod. Some rods will give absolutely no indication of the flicking, and others will give different levels of the "tap" that we're used to feeling from fish. Again, its just a quick, crude method but the difference is noticeable.

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40 minutes ago, loudcherokee said:

Thanks for replying guys.

I do wish there was a way we could reliably test sensitivity. Maybe with some kind of vibration sensors mounted to the rod where the hand is held, and a repeatable tapping or pulling of an attached line with no variables. I mean, technology has brought us as far as sticking vibrating lights in a rechargeable lure, why no reliable scientific  method to testing sensitivity, taking the human variable out of the equation?

LC

What is YOUR definition of sensitivity?  

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9 hours ago, Red Bear said:

sensitivity is in your hands, a $400 rod is really no more sensitive than a $50 rod...

Keep telling yourself that. :huh:

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Let's not turn this into an argument and get this one locked guys.

As for my original question, basically if you take the same manufacturer, same length, same line, etc, one rod is heavy/extra fast, the other rod is Medium heavy/Fast - will there be a noticeable difference in sensitivity, enough to affect my perceived sensitivity on bottom contact baits.

Reason being is I'm going to be getting a new reel and will need to get a new rod for it, and what I have so far is:

Fines spinning setup with medium power rod

Medium heavy fast rod for bottom contact, which may become my spinnerbait rod if i get a new rod

Moderate speed rod crankbait specific

Medium heavy with a spongy tip that will be given away if i get a new rod. The rod loads considerably with a 1/2oz spinnerbait

I was not asking about price points, whether sensitivity is perceived differently, etc. Just hoping someone who has maybe had the same exact rod in a different power has noticed differences.

I don't mean to come off crass and I appreciate all the comments thus far, I just don't want an argument and locked thread.

I think I might just be looking for an excuse to buy a heavy rod, lol.

As far as measuring sensitivity, my thoughts were that there must be some device in our world that can do this. Some kind of small sensor that can detect vibration, and assign a numerical value to that observed vibration. Think of a Richter scale but a micro version that can be stuck or glued to the reel seat, exposed blank, etc. This would result in a standardized measurement process - Rod A has a sensitivity rating of 7.5, rod B has a 9.3 etc etc. Each user could then base their "perceived" sensitivity on this number, or use it as a starting point.

There must be a way. Where's our bassresource scientists and engineers lol?

LC

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11 hours ago, Red Bear said:

sensitivity is in your hands, a $400 rod is really no more sensitive than a $50 rod...

I agree to a point!

I've said it before, you can put a $500 custom built rod in my wife's hand & she couldn't tell the different between it & a Berkley Lighting rod. Because what is transmitted up the line & down the rod through the hands is lost in the brain!

Now in my hands if a bass farts around the Lighting rod I'll feel it!

Back to the OP, it's 100℅ personal preference!

I like a 6' 10" medium heavy extra fast for flipping/pitching & casting T-rigs & jigs because that's what I'm comfortable with.

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The heavier the power rating increases the rods lifting power and weight the rod can cast efficiently. The action is more about where the begins to bend.  A heavy or 6 power fast action rod will be more difficult to cast a 1/2 oz lure then the MH fast action because the 1/2 weight doesn't bend the heavy fast rod enough to help luanch the lure...like casting with a stiff rod.

I prefer fishing 6 power jig rods because they have more power to control big bass, they take a lot of practice to cast effectively. My 6'10" H fast rod weighs 3.8 oz, light weight rod and very sensitive.

Tom

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14 hours ago, Jrob78 said:

Keep telling yourself that. :huh:

keep falling for every marketing ploy thrown at you.

 

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16 hours ago, loudcherokee said:

Thanks for replying guys.

I do wish there was a way we could reliably test sensitivity. Maybe with some kind of vibration sensors mounted to the rod where the hand is held, and a repeatable tapping or pulling of an attached line with no variables. I mean, technology has brought us as far as sticking vibrating lights in a rechargeable lure, why no reliable scientific  method to testing sensitivity, taking the human variable out of the equation?

LC

You can measure the amount of vibration transmitted through the blank, but that won´t do you no good, the test will die the second those vibrations touch human skin, of course you could monitor those electrochemical signals transmitted by the nerves all the way up to the brain but you can´t quantify perception.

My friend Luis is color blind, how can you see how he sees ? to me the sky is blue, to him the sky is "purple". Same example.

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25 minutes ago, Red Bear said:

keep falling for every marketing ploy thrown at you.

 

I have $500+ and $50 rods and the diffence in sensitivity is dramatic in my hands.  Is it 10X the sensitivity? No and I do think there is a point of diminishing returns.  Sensitivity is only one part of the equation because action, balance, lightness and sheer beauty are also important to me.  I can feel a big difference between $50 and $100 rods.  I suppose I could probably be perfectly happy fishing rods in the $100+/- range but I am also a bit of an enthusiast.  

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On 5/10/2016 at 0:46 PM, Red Bear said:

sensitivity is in your hands, a $400 rod is really no more sensitive than a $50 rod...

if you don't know what to do with the extra feel from a $400 rod, you might as well be using a $50 one :lol:

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In terms of pure physics, and taking a single line of rods all built by the same manufacturer and process and with the same components and materials, a shorter rod will be more sensitive than a longer rod, a faster action rod will be more sensitive than a slower action rod, and a more powerful rod will be more sensitive than a less powerful one, unless that power is achieved at the expense of a weight gain. Whether an individual can truly detect such differences is where the variability really lies in your questions. No doubt, some probably can, and others likely can't.

-T9

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17 hours ago, loudcherokee said:

Thanks for replying guys.

I do wish there was a way we could reliably test sensitivity. Maybe with some kind of vibration sensors mounted to the rod where the hand is held, and a repeatable tapping or pulling of an attached line with no variables. I mean, technology has brought us as far as sticking vibrating lights in a rechargeable lure, why no reliable scientific  method to testing sensitivity, taking the human variable out of the equation?

LC

Don't know about technology or any scientific method, but the best way I've heard to give an indication of a rod's ability to transmit vibration is to hold it as you normaly would, touch the tip lightly to someones adams apple while they hum. 

And no I have not tried it, and don't know anyone who has, it's just what I read. 

 

Mike 

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1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

In terms of pure physics, and taking a single line of rods all built by the same manufacturer and process and with the same components and materials, a shorter rod will be more sensitive than a longer rod, a faster action rod will be more sensitive than a slower action rod, and a more powerful rod will be more sensitive than a less powerful one, unless that power is achieved at the expense of a weight gain. Whether an individual can truly detect such differences is where the variability really lies in your questions. No doubt, some probably can, and others likely can't.

-T9

This. What's more sensitive and transmits vibration better, an uncooked spaghetti noodle or a cooked one? Obviously the stiffer, uncooked one. With regard to the cost of a rod, specifically the $400 vs $50 comment, this is false in the sense the more expensive rod typically has a higher modulus (stiffer grade) blank material. Is that difference perceptible? That's where the grey area lies. Elite pros probably don't care or need the $400 rod to catch fish consistently. But that doesn't mean they cannot feel the difference between an NRX and an Ugly Stik. I would state that high end rods also use better quality guides, cork, bling, etc. which don't quite affect a rod's sensitivity as much as the blank's material, action, and power.  I agree there is a point of diminishing returns (as in all products) but unless you've actually fished with a $400 rod side-by-side vs. a $50 rod, you cannot make such foolish blanket statements. I agree with T9 that a rod's action and power do influence a rod's vibration transmission. It's just a matter of degree and what you can feel through to your hands and what you can afford. 

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3 hours ago, Mike L said:

Don't know about technology or any scientific method, but the best way I've heard to give an indication of a rod's ability to transmit vibration is to hold it as you normaly would, touch the tip lightly to someones adams apple while they hum. 

 

You better ask their permission first.  Sounds like a good way to get kicked out of the sporting goods store, or punched in the eye.... ;-)

Tight lines,

Bob

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