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Ralph Nicholas Vito

Is this Detrimental to a pond or lake ?

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So i used live bait over the weekend and had about 14 shiners left and was leaving my vacation house and not coming back for a week so i decided to just dump them into the pond instead of keeping them i will just buy new shiners next week but i also had the after thought .... what if adding fish that arn't normally in a pond or lake throws off the balance? ever since i was a kid this is what we would do just dump the fish into our pond because we had no use for them where we lived and we don't own like one of those airation things. So thought i would ask here. Obviously 1 or 2 fish aren't gonna have an affect i think but maybe if you do this enough over a period of time it would have an affect? maybe i'm just over thinking it.

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that is how most, carp and other invasive species enter isolated ponds and lakes. 

never a good idea to dump live baitfish in a body of water.

It is actually illegal to dump live baitfish on most public waters.

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16 minutes ago, Russ E said:

that is how most, carp and other invasive species enter isolated ponds and lakes. 

never a good idea to dump live baitfish in a body of water.

It is actually illegal to dump live baitfish on most public waters.

Guess i need to learn up on my rules ... was never taught the rules other than gotta have a fishing license

Anyone know how to find my states specific rules? haven't found anything specific on my own state especially when it comes to this

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I generally advise against getting regulatory advice on a forum.  Every state has their laws, regs, rules, etc online.

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15 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

I generally advise against getting regulatory advice on a forum.  Every state has their laws, regs, rules, etc online.

I agree. it is best to learn the regulations from your state. Here in Kansas it is pretty strict, because of the nuisance species. here is a sample of some of our regulations. https://ksoutdoors.com/Fishing/Fishing-Regulations/Bait-Fish

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Russ E said:

I agree. it is best to learn the regulations from your state. Here in Kansas it is pretty strict, because of the nuisance species. here is a sample of our regulations. https://ksoutdoors.com/Fishing/Fishing-Regulations/Bait-Fish

 

ya the issue is i can't find anything pertaining to baitfish on my states website

also a lot of terms on the website i can't understand when it pertains to fish like ... liberation idk

i did find something on bait .... but it says nothing about if it's illegal or not to dump them in the water just what you can use and how you can catch your own bait obviously im not trying to do anything illegal or ruin a body of water so my main goal is to avoid those lol

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18 minutes ago, Ralph Nicholas Vito said:

ya the issue is i can't find anything pertaining to baitfish on my states website

also a lot of terms on the website i can't understand when it pertains to fish like ... liberation idk

i did find something on bait .... but it says nothing about if it's illegal or not to dump them in the water just what you can use and how you can catch your own bait obviously im not trying to do anything illegal or ruin a body of water so my main goal is to avoid those lol

unfortuntely nearly all state regulations can be hard to read. Every fisheries biologist I have talked to,  stated it is not a good practice to release live baitfish if the fish were not caught in that body of water.

 

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1 hour ago, Ralph Nicholas Vito said:

Obviously 1 or 2 fish aren't gonna have an affect i think but maybe if you do this enough over a period of time it would have an affect? maybe i'm just over thinking it.

You wouldn't think so, but I'm willing to bet you're not the only one using live bait around there so figure them in. Like someone mentioned before this is how some of the invasive species have found their way into lakes they aren't native to.

 

I'm willing to bet it's illegal in your state, it's not the end of the world. I'd dump them on the ground and feed the coons and educate others about the risks of dumping non native fish into a body of water. 

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6 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

You wouldn't think so, but I'm willing to bet you're not the only one using live bait around there so figure them in. Like someone mentioned before this is how some of the invasive species have found their way into lakes they aren't native to.

 

I'm willing to bet it's illegal in your state, it's not the end of the world. I'd dump them on the ground and feed the coons and educate others about the risks of dumping non native fish into a body of water. 

ya i don't think i have saw a few kayakers on the pond with bobbers so i'm definitely figuring them in


Just don't want them ruining the bass fishing or pickerel fishing or perch fishing on the pond like i don't want them taking over the pond

 

My first though was .... these minnows are just going to get eaten by the game fish in the pond because of how low of a number it was but like i said it was just something i was told to do by my father and me and the others kids just followed what we were taught

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36 minutes ago, Ralph Nicholas Vito said:

ya i don't think i have saw a few kayakers on the pond with bobbers so i'm definitely figuring them in


Just don't want them ruining the bass fishing or pickerel fishing or perch fishing on the pond like i don't want them taking over the pond

 

My first though was .... these minnows are just going to get eaten by the game fish in the pond because of how low of a number it was but like i said it was just something i was told to do by my father and me and the others kids just followed what we were taught

That's exactly what I did when I was a kid ice fishing. Dump them down the hole. That's what I was told to do too. Well years later I learn it's illegal to do it, and of course I gave my step dad crap for telling me to do it. LOL

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The species list allowed will not introduce any non native species.  The rules are pretty clear:

 

https://www.mass.gov/guides/massachusetts-freshwater-fishing-regulations

 

You are putting the bait fish in the water.  It's isn't unlikely none get away.  It isn't going to hurt your fishery if you release the bait.

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2 hours ago, Ralph Nicholas Vito said:

Guess i need to learn up on my rules ... was never taught the rules other than gotta have a fishing license

Anyone know how to find my states specific rules? haven't found anything specific on my own state especially when it comes to this

Check out your state's DNR page and download the fishing rules booklet/pamphlet. It is possible that such information is listed in there, but it could be subtle to find. If not, contact them via phone.

 

It is incumbent, i.e., obligatory on us, the anglers, to know the rules.  

 

In WA State, this DNR is called the WDFW (Washington Department of  Fish and Wildlife) and let me tell you, they don't skimp on any rule, regulation and and detail.  They lay it all out. No ifs, ands, or buts.  The rules might still be confusing, but it is laid out, lol. 

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27 minutes ago, J Francho said:

The species list allowed will not introduce any non native species.  The rules are pretty clear:

 

https://www.mass.gov/guides/massachusetts-freshwater-fishing-regulations

 

You are putting the bait fish in the water.  It's isn't unlikely none get away.  It isn't going to hurt your fishery if you release the bait.

Right.

 

Releasing minnows and other live bait into a pond will not injure the pond or cause the entire Massachusetts eco system to fail.

 

I have been known to put live Louisiana crawfish in my double secret pond in the hope they would establish a colony and reproduce. Sorry to say they are all gone. Between the bass and catfish they were out of there in 48-hours.

 

We don't put the live crawfish in any other waters, only the pond.

 

I do not believe the baitfish you put in the pond will do any damage. In fact, I would bet they have already been eaten.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, islandbass said:

Check out your state's DNR page and download the fishing rules booklet/pamphlet.

It's ALL in the link I posted above.  Took me about three clicks to find the right info from the state site.

 

8 minutes ago, islandbass said:

It is incumbent, i.e., obligatory on us, the anglers, to know the rules.

Exactly, which is why I'm glad Ralph asked.  We got each other's backs! ;)

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43 minutes ago, Sam said:

Right.

 

Releasing minnows and other live bait into a pond will not injure the pond or cause the entire Massachusetts eco system to fail.

 

I have been known to put live Louisiana crawfish in my double secret pond in the hope they would establish a colony and reproduce. Sorry to say they are all gone. Between the bass and catfish they were out of there in 48-hours.

 

We don't put the live crawfish in any other waters, only the pond.

 

I do not believe the baitfish you put in the pond will do any damage. In fact, I would bet they have already been eaten.

 

 

Obviously my main worry was that that the fish i was introducing would destroy the bass population or other game fish pop in the pond ... somehow lol i don’t know exactly how i thought that but it was my main worry and now that i know it’s illegal I won’t be doing it lol

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How would feeding the bass destroy a fishery?  What from the link I posted made you think putting shiners, which are indigenous to your waters, was illegal?  You're getting the information to base your actions from the wrong source.  Why not use the the link to the page that clearly states the law?  Putting shiners, whether on hook or dumped into the water is not illegal and will not destroy the fishery.

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1 hour ago, J Francho said:

How would feeding the bass destroy a fishery?  What from the link I posted made you think putting shiners, which are indigenous to your waters, was illegal?  You're getting the information to base your actions from the wrong source.  Why not use the the link to the page that clearly states the law?  Putting shiners, whether on hook or dumped into the water is not illegal and will not destroy the fishery.

o i saw this * Releasing fish or spawn into inland waters, except by permit.  and i thought that is what that meant totally my bad i did read the whole thing :) i was very appreciative of the link

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That's for stocking game fish.  That is why the bait list is so small, so you don't introduce a harmful species. ;)

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I cast a shiner yesterday and right in the middle of the arc it came flying off the hook. Excuse me a second, the police are at the door...

 

:police-car-004:

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Here's a little something to think about . . .

When I was a kid, my dad created a goldfish pond in our backyard.  We put goldfish in it and some mosquito fish.  Everything was fine.  One day I netted a couple mosquito fish from a local pond and put them in our goldfish pond.  A month later, our goldfish and mosquito fish were all infected with a parasitic copepod.  We had to remove the fish, pull out the copepods that were sticking out of the fish, drain the pond, treat it with chemicals, refill the pond with water, then put the cleaned fish back in.  All because I put in some fish that looked harmless to me.  The fish were harmless, but the parasites they had were not.

 

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It isn't just the baitfish that you dump that are the issue with dumping bait. Golden Shiners are perfectly fine and help in a lot of bodies of water, but zebra mussel and quagga mussel veligers are microscopic and can live in a drop of water. Eurasian Watermilfoil can take hold with just a couple small pieces of a plant or seeds and completely choke out a pond or small lake (I've gotten to witness this one personally destroy an amazing small lake). A lot of people out there couldn't tell a juvi Asian carp from a store bought minnow or cast net caught shad without some help. 

 

Is it a Chicken Little the sky is falling view of it? Perhaps, but I have the pleasure of fishing lakes with zebra mussels, Eurasian Watermilfoil, Curlyleaf Pondweed, White Perch, and all the species of Asian Carp. You don't want to have to deal with any of them. The little good those few shiners might do for a couple fish isn't worth the potential harm that could be done if one of those invasive species is accidentally introduced. 

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Zebra mussels, quagga mussels, round gobies, and EU milfoil have improved the fisheries up here.  Curly leaf pond weed is annoying, but isn't that bad.  Cat's already out of the bag, so we roll with it.

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 I totally disagree with the “it’s harmless for a pond” statements  and it’s absolutely something you have to be careful with. One time? Yeah, you’re probably fine but by no means make a habit of it.

 

    I have absolutely seen store-bought minnows dumped into a couple smaller very private ponds and take it over to the point were they choked the bass and bluegill population out of a small pond.  The actual species of what you’re discussing matters along with size a body of water of course. If it’s a true golden shiner that’s one thing.  But if its the run of the mill 2”-5” minnow every bait store around here sells it’s not a golden shiner...though A lot of people call them “shiners“. When released into a pond they can get larger, around a foot long- to the point they out compete all of the young fish...Maybe a legacy large bass or two likes to snack on em. Smaller ponds can only support so many lbs of fish per acre. Now again if this is an actual golden shiner, which we don’t even have available around here perhaps that’s different.

 

     The ponds I’m referencing If you cast a bobber with a nightcrawler into them they would attack it like piranha in a bad horror movie.  You need a tiny hook to Actually stick one...Otherwise they clean the hook in no time.  It’s absolutely a thing. People call those “roaches” around here.  Not to be confused with the actual species of Fish called a roach

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We're talking about a specific pond and a specific situation.  Anything other than that list of baitfish linked to is illegal in Mass.  If a top predator cannot dominate in a pond situation, there's some other factor holding their success back.  Plenty of managed ponds feed the bass with benefits to the bass population.

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