No, it's definitely about fishing for me.  That's why they're called fishing records or record catches.  Not a world record from some DNR person doing an electrofishing survey.  Most lakes around here have zero management for bass, and the bass do just fine.

18 hours ago, flyfisher said:

So any fish caught outside its native range would not be eligible for a record.  

So wipe all the record Brown Trout off the books for North America.

 

Brown Trout were imported from Europe - they're not native to this side of 'The Pond'.

 

How many other species are in the same boat?

50 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

How many other species are in the same boat?

off the top of my head, brown trout, rainbow trout, largemouth bass, and probably a few types of sunfish

 

also not sure, but the record Nile Perch might be an invasive as well

Just now, J Francho said:

off the top of my head, brown trout, rainbow trout, largemouth bass, and probably a few types of sunfish

Rainbows are at least native to North America - though west coast only...anything beyond that is old transplant. https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=910

Largemouth are North American from the start - though only Mississippi and Great Lakes and points east - anywhere else in the world, they're a transplant. https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=401

 

The record rainbow is a genetically modified triploid trout plant.

1 minute ago, J Francho said:

The record rainbow is a genetically modified triploid trout plant.

Yep - but they were talking non-native in the general...at least rainbows are N.A. native...browns aren't...LMB and SMB are...though the ranges of both have been artificially increased.

no dog in this fight.  but this is one of those situation where someone had to draw a line in the sand. 

 

side hookage doesn't count.  I get it.

 

personally, I would still have a billion pics of my catch and I would be showing it off like a nut job.  I did after all, present a bait that convinced a bass to take a swipe at it.  that's a win on my part.  not being able to declare it the grand-poo-bah of bass?  I'll live.  

32 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Yep - but they were talking non-native in the general...at least rainbows are N.A. native...browns aren't...LMB and SMB are...though the ranges of both have been artificially increased.

They aren't native to the lake in Canada, and they are a man made variant.

 

Don't get me wrong, the rainbow record counts in my book.  I'm just proving my point about record fish all having some special set of circumstances that may have had an affect on their size.  A triploid trout is sterile and has no drive to make a costly run upstream or devote any calories toward egg production.  Just eat, eat, swim, eat, eat.

California native fresh water game fish is a short list.

King Salmon

Silver Salmon

Pink Salmon

Steelhead Trout

Rainbow Trout

Golden Trout

Paiute Trout* endangered species.

No Black Bass species all are transplants. 

Tom

 

On 6/5/2022 at 12:59 PM, king fisher said:

   In order for a fish to qualify for a IGFA record it has to be caught according to IGFA rules as well as be a legal catch according to the regulations of the state it was caught in.  Weather the regulation in a particular state is unpopular,  legal in other states, or makes zero sense to most anglers is irrelevant.  Being a record does not mean it is the biggest fish of that species.  It only means, it was legally caught by sport fishing means, and all IGFA rules were adhered to.  If a world record bass was caught in the state of Idaho at night it would not qualify, because it is illegal to fish at night in Idaho.  It wouldn't matter if the angler thought it was still day light, or hooked it before the closed time, but landed it afterword's, it would still be an illegal catch and would not qualify for a record.

      Many potential saltwater records get disqualified because of an IGFA rule infraction.  The fish was the biggest, but a mate touched the line above the leader, leader length was to long, main line tested above line rating, mate helped move rod and many other rule violations, that doesn't take away from the quality of the fish, but does break the rules of a record sport catch according to the IGFA.

      In Alaska it is illegal to snag salmon in fresh water.  A skilled angler can perfect a skill called lining or flossing.  It involves having the line slide through a salmon's mouth and hooking the salmon in the mouth with a single hooked fly.  It is illegal to intentionally snag a salmon, but impossible to prove the salmon was snagged intentionally.  In order to have some way to enforce the no snagging law, they consider a fish snagged if it is hooked behind the gill.  If Dottie was caught in Alaska, it would have been a legally caught fish and a new world record.  She was caught in CA where the definition of snagging is different, so no record period.

       I agree Dottie was the biggest bass of all time, but she was not a world record sport caught bass in CA, therefore no IGFA record.  She does have the record for the biggest large mouth bass ever weighed on a certified scale.  No other bass, even ones farmed raised or caught in a commercial net have ever been as big

Great writeup.  Unless the regs have changed, I do believe that your Alaska example is incorrect.  When fishing for salmon, it is considered "snagging" if the hook is not in its mouth. If the hook is not in the mouth, the fish has to be immediately released. 

When I lived up there, I witnessed a guy next to me that brought in an obviously snagged silver (Coho). A couple of anglers said that it was snagged and he should release the fish. He laughed and said that he didn't care and proceeded to bonk it and put it on his stringer.  A gentleman that was a couple of anglers down was watching and slowly reeled in his line, walked up and asked the angler about the fish. He opened his fishing vest and flashed his Alaska Trooper badge and proceeded to write a significant ticket. 

On 6/9/2022 at 1:11 PM, hunterPRO1 said:

if anything, that pic was proof that properly holding a bass by just the lip without putting angle in the jaw doesn't hurt them.

 

even when she died, she didn't look malnourished, as evidenced by the pic at the bottom of this article. World Record Chasers | The Story of “Dottie” the 25 pound Largemouth Bass – Bass Fishing Facts

 

that fish died of old age.

This  article above says it all about Dottie and how she became that big.  Nothing natural about it!  

5 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

So wipe all the record Brown Trout off the books for North America.

 

Brown Trout were imported from Europe - they're not native to this side of 'The Pond'.

 

How many other species are in the same boat?

A whole lot which was the point of my post actually.  

On 6/9/2022 at 7:48 AM, flyfisher said:

so by your definition I'd be curious as to what would constitute a world record.  Would the fish have to be a native to the area and not stocked at some point?  The largemouth is only native to a few areas really.  

 

You'd need to be a third generation native of the area to catch it too. 

On 6/10/2022 at 9:17 AM, Bankc said:

To me, this kind of record is held by the fish, not the angler.  Sure, there's some skill involved with catching a record fish, just like any fish.  But there's also a whole lot of luck, indicated by the names at the tops of these lists (several are not serious anglers).  And it requires access to a body of water that holds a record fish, something most of us do not have.  

 

If you want to give the record to a person, I think a more deserving recipient would be the people who managed the water that allowed a fish to grow to record size.  Having a bunch of poorly managed lakes near me, I can't stress the importance of that enough.  

That makes zero sense.

Some guy that opened the gate at 6 am and a fish that may potentially weigh more than all other swimming around get the record. No fishing necessary. 

The concept of fishery management for LMB In California doesn’t exist. 

Larry Bothroff was the San Diego biologist for Orville Ball city manager to study the progress of planting Florida strain LMB in San Diego city lakes in 1959. The FLMB goal was to increase overall catch rates of larger average size bass. The program failed it’s intended goal as man hour per catch rate dropped dramatically. FLMB proved to be harder to catch then their Northern cousins. 

The unintentional result of FLMB growing 50% heavier over their 15 year lifetime created a demand for these giant bass.

FLMB started to be introduced in several California lakes with a initial 1 time planting of bass from San Diego lakes in the 70’s. 

FLMB are wild fish introduced in a wide range of lakes and river systems that have adapted to California’s environment.

No different then introducing Southern Spotted Bass that grew to record size...ideal ecosystems. 

Tom

8 hours ago, J Francho said:

Some guy that opened the gate at 6 am and a fish that may potentially weigh more than all other swimming around get the record. No fishing necessary. 

LOL. There is a reason why a good fishing clique includes some guys who can't fish a lick, but have other useful life skills, I would suggest a LEO, a chef, a locksmith, and a marine mechanic goes without saying, you would think guys with hot wives, but that always goes south in the end...

 

I thought Dottie was hooked on a swimbait not a jig?

 

Allen 

38 minutes ago, Munkin said:

I thought Dottie was hooked on a swimbait not a jig?

 

Allen 

Jig