Hey guys, been reading alot here behind the scenes and have learned a ton. Recently got into bass fishing and have dove in head first. Learning a ton from places like this and YouTube. And ofcourse fishing 3-4 times a week. 

 

But there's somthing i wanted to run by you guys. I understand i need more experience. But I'm experiencing something contradictory. This will get wordy, so I apologize. But bear with me. 

 

I have a few lakes by me. 

Lake 1 is shaped like a 3 leaf clover. There's some lily pads in one corner but that's it. Sand bottom. Real gradual slope into deeper water. No grass, rocks, docks. Nothing. Very little shade as well. The middle gets 6-8 feet deep but it's mostly 4 ft deep. Iv caught a few bass here and it's known as one of the better spots. 

 

Lake 2 is actually a number of similar lakes. Tons of cover. Grass, docks, rocks, pads. But the problem is access is very limited so there's only a handful of spots to fish from the bank. They look like they hold bass, but i have not caught a single fish at any of these lakes. 

 

Lake 3 is similar to Lake 1. Some shore line cover in spots. 2-4 feet deep all around. And it's in a state park, a good amount of the bank is actually a little wall. But for the most part the lake is just open water. Iv caught my biggest and most fish here along the wall and in open water. Never in the cover. 

 

So my question is this. How do you guys attack spots with limited structure or cover? I know there are fish, iv had my most success here. But it's almost counterintuitive. 

 

And second, would you guys go to lakes with limited access, but good cover? What i have been doing is looking at wind forecasts and heading to the lakes that allow me to fish where i think bait fish will be blown into. 

 

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to pick the brains of the more experienced. Although iv had success in these open lakes over the others, i feel like im randomly casting or guessing. And the spots that have areas to target i feel confident in, but can never get a bite. Iv had success with moving baits in these open lakes. But when things get slow and i move to bottom contact lures, i get lost. Does it make sense to throw bottom contact in open water with no structure or grass? 

 

So how would you guys go about things in my situation? 

For context, how big are these bodies of water?  If you are fishing from the bank, how have you determined the depth and the structure/cover that exists throughout the lake…especially lakes 1 & 3?  Also, it doesn’t need to be dramatic cover/structure to hold bass.

 

Edit:  I’m sure you know this but just to clarify, all bodies of water have structure though definitions of what is considered part of the structure may vary.  I define structure as simply the bottom contours (the canvas the lake is created on) and cover as what’s on top of those contours. 

size and part of the country will help.  Also if you know what forage are in the lakes would be good.

 

it doesn't take a lot of cover or structure to concentrate fish.  Put yourself in the bass's position and pick out what the best place to hide would be to ambush baitfish.  that's where bass will be.  If there is a little bed of lilies, then there are fish around or in it.  If there is a concrete wall, then there are fish around it.  They'll hide in the first and use the second as a barrier.  Heck, if there is a single concrete block or tire in the middle of the lake that is otherwise sand, you'll have a couple bass on it.  Bass will relate to a black line painted around the outside of a white tank.

 

For me mentally, I like to throw at some type of cover so that's what I'd be doing myself.  I'd figure out a way to get access to the water in lake(s) 2 because no one else is.

If the lakes aren't very big and the wind isn't blowing a float tube is a great way to fish in places others can't.  As c-b-f said any cover is where the bass will be.

Without knowing where you are located makes difficult to understand the regional climate or topography and bass species you are trying to catch.

Do you use casting or spinning tackle?

Tom

Ok so these lakes are 20-30 acres in NY, long island to be specific. And I'm getting the depth from contour maps that iv found. As far as cover, I'm getting that from feel. I can drag a jig across the bottom and feel nothing. 

 

As far as forage, bluegill and little baitfish. I'm assuming shad and minnows. Iv seen them, just don't know the species. 

 

By the way, thanks for the responses. But that's sort of what I'm getting at. Take lake 3 for example. Id had some success there casting along the wall/bank. I get why and how. But when i target those heavy cover spots on that lake, i get nothing. Throw a random cast a few feet off that wall and im getting bites. I should mention this lake is dark. Tannic? Like tea. The others are clear. 

 

As for lake 1. I do target those lilys. Again that i get. But i suppose that's my question. If i strike out on the lilies, do i just head to another lake? Or is fan casting into open water the right play? 

 

I hear guys talking about ledges. Like i said lake 1 is a gradual slope. No hard drop. Do bass hold tight to a gradual slope like that? 

4 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

I hear guys talking about ledges. Like i said lake 1 is a gradual slope. No hard drop. Do bass hold tight to a gradual slope like that? 

What some of these guys are trying to relay to you is that you are over-generalizing a bit.  "Do bass hold tight to a gradual slope like that?" can be a yes or a no because, depending upon season, recent weather, wind, cloud cover/sun, and other potential structure in the area there may be a single rock or stump somewhere on that slope that will ALWAYS or SOMETIMES have a fish or multiple fish on it.  You are focusing on specific pieces of cover and looking for a yes or no answer from experienced fishermen, but the answer is "maybe".  Throw at the cover.  If you don't get a bite you have two choices; 1.  Be confident in your theory based on all available data (everything I listed about starting with the word 'season') and you feel strongly that there should be fish there so you keep changing your presentation and throw until you can't throw anymore or, 2.  Move on.

 

You are doing a good job of researching and learning, but remember that when you learn something specific about bass behavior that is specific only to the fine details of that statement.  A small change can be an enormous change.  This is why the pros have days when they get skunked.  It's one of the hardest and most rewarding hobbies, IMO.  

6 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

Ok so these lakes are 20-30 acres in NY, long island to be specific. And I'm getting the depth from contour maps that iv found. As far as cover, I'm getting that from feel. I can drag a jig across the bottom and feel nothing. 

 

As far as forage, bluegill and little baitfish. I'm assuming shad and minnows. Iv seen them, just don't know the species. 

 

By the way, thanks for the responses. But that's sort of what I'm getting at. Take lake 3 for example. Id had some success there casting along the wall/bank. I get why and how. But when i target those heavy cover spots on that lake, i get nothing. Throw a random cast a few feet off that wall and im getting bites. I should mention this lake is dark. Tannic? Like tea. The others are clear. 

 

As for lake 1. I do target those lilys. Again that i get. But i suppose that's my question. If i strike out on the lilies, do i just head to another lake? Or is fan casting into open water the right play? 

 

I hear guys talking about ledges. Like i said lake 1 is a gradual slope. No hard drop. Do bass hold tight to a gradual slope like that? 

Good info so far now lets talk about your rod, reel, line!

Tom

A lot of fish will be in that limited cover and structure. Another thing to pay attention to will be what the bottom looks like.

"fishing 3-4 times a week"   not sure you are going to get any better or faster improvements than simply doing this.      The best fisherman fish the most....it's that simple.   Be in their environment, throw multiple baits, document results and conditions, and start building your collective Bass fishing knowledge.      

 

Bass fishing is one of life's ultimate test in trial and error.   

15 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

Ok so these lakes are 20-30 acres in NY, long island

So yeah, these are tricky little ponds that we call lakes around here.

19 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

Lake 1 is shaped like a 3 leaf clover. There's some lily pads in one corner but that's it. Sand bottom. Real gradual slope into deeper water. No grass,

Just about any lake in this area without loads of weeds has had a bad algae bloom which has blocked out sunlight. No sun, no weeds. Places that were choked to the surface 2 years ago like Artist Lake are grassless now. Blydenburgh, which is typically 100 acres of shore to shore weeds, didn't have a sprout last year because of this issue. Laurel too, and many others. But there are plenty that weren't hit.

15 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

As far as forage, bluegill and little baitfish. I'm assuming shad and minnows. Iv seen them, just don't know the species. 

Regardless of what's printed on the NYDEC pages, just about every spot has a large selection of baitfish and craws, but not shad. Just a few places have runs of Alwife(river herring or American shad). Unless you're way out east, they aren't a factor for you. That's changing though. Fish ladders are being built into many south shore dammed lakes and ponds.

15 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

I hear guys talking about ledges.

Other than a few natural lakes way out east, there are no ledges to think about. If you're a resident of one of these scant selections, you're allowed to fish there. If you aren't, don't go. You will be caught, have your gear confiscated, and will have to appear in court and pay a fine. They're seriously cracking down in these places. I've witnessed this happen more than once. Ronk has steep drop offs, but has zero O2 below 15 feet, and is brutally choked out.

15 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

As for lake 1. I do target those lilys.

Most of the pad fields are in shallow water rarely greater than 3 feet deep. Typically those pad fields are in-filled with milfoil, except for the algae bloom lakes. Those still have pads if they had them before the algae, but no weeds. The problem right now is that the drought has dropped these ponds as much as 2 feet. You basically end up having pad fields in hot, ultra shallow oxygen depleted water. The dying plants in these zones aren't a plus.

 

The past month has been rough because of this drought, but it's typically tough anyway. The bait is everywhere, especially in the middle near deeper holes, and so are the bass. Watch the birds either diving for or skimming small bait off the surface. Right now this is exclusively way off the bank. It's been this way for a while now, but that should shift back closer to the bank in early October. Maybe. The low water levels have changed the normal patterns.

 

If you'd like to overcome this now, then get a something that floats. Every good fish pic I've had texted to me over the past month has come from quite a bit off shore, so from a boat or a yak. However, those came in unaffected grass lakes.

 

If this isn't an option, then keep plugging away. Dinks can deal far better with low O2 in super shallow water, so you'll nab random smalls occasionally if you catch an active bite window. Just understand that the bass are still very scattered, and with so much bait available to them your timing needs to be just right.  

 

Here's something to keep in mind about these smaller places here. Areas that are dead zones one day might be loaded with bait the next. Bait gets pounded out of one area then driven to the next one. Finding a concentration of small baitfish at the right time is your best bet right now. It won't be cloudy again until Monday through Tuesday, so the high sun days will be rough. Try early predawn or after dark until then. The cooler night air chills shallows quickly, and at some point after dark bait will need to push closer to the bank to survive as all the predatory species activate. Being there at that point is your best shot.  We didn't find an active bite until 1 am yesterday, and they were all dinks.

 

Thank you all, and thank you PhishLI for that local insight. That makes complete sense about the algae bloom blocking sunlight. I was under the impression spots like artist just didn't have grass since im new. This was the key to me understanding what i was experiencing. Seems so obvious now that the thought was put in my head haha. 

 

Thanks again to everyone for the input

42 minutes ago, JayMac89 said:

I was under the impression spots like artist just didn't have grass since im new.

Here are a few pics from a place that's the opposite of Artist. Taken yesterday. No major algae bloom, lush with weeds and pads, but now 2 feet lower than it was during the spring. Not a trickle over the dam which is usually a torrent. Just some seepage now. Bad news in a 10 acre spot where the mean depth is typically 3 1/2 feet. The weeds have collapsed into themselves. It's like casting your bait into jello. It's a stagnant mess now with no flow. I've caught several 6lbers here in the past, and plenty of solid bass. Hopefully they'll survive. If it gets any worse, I'm not sure they will. It simply won't rain.

 

Stick with it during this tough stretch. Things will turn around eventually. '17 was pretty bad. Not this bad, but very low levels everywhere. Things improved considerably by '18.

That is insane. You know, I'm the type of guy who gets into somthing and I'm all in. I have very few hobbies but the ones i do have im all about. And i quickly fell in love with bass fishing. Had some success in the beginning. Then started to struggle. Then had another blip of success. Then started struggling. And in my head it was me doing somthing wrong. Which i sure i am, I'm new and am 100% making mistakes. Got a ton to learn. But my point was that iv heard/read that summer could be tough and good. Iv heard the warm water ups activity and heard the exact opposite. Because of my blips of success i figured its an ok time to fish. But man, the lack of rain, vegetation growth or lack of, the effect that has on O2 levels, i never thought of as a factor. I was just thinking heat and sun. Very eye opening and somthing that will now be ingrained in my brain moving forward. This is somthing i hadn't heard anyone talk about, and would of taken me years upon years upon years to figure out. So thank you for sharing that knowledge. I'm primarily a surfer, i know how sacred some of that knowledge that took years to figure out is. I appreciate it very much. 

 

I got stuck going to the same places because i know there's fish, artist being one of those spots. But i have a whole list of spots i want to explore. I guess now would be a good time to hit new spots and get a lay of the land. Iv seen some bassy looking spots driving around. 

As mentioned above getting something floaty will transform your opportunity set, and put you ahead of most everyone. 

That is the plan. Was thinking Jon boat. Most of these lakes allow hand launched boats. But i actually just started looking into pedal kayaks. Weighing out my options. Think I'd like a jon boat better. But would also most likley use it less due to having to trailer it. Kayak i can just toss in the back of my truck and go. Plans to do my research, see what's out there, and pull the trigger by end of winter so I'm all set once spring comes around. 

54 minutes ago, JayMac89 said:

That is the plan. Was thinking Jon boat. Most of these lakes allow hand launched boats. But i actually just started looking into pedal kayaks. Weighing out my options. Think I'd like a jon boat better.

Whatever you choose, get something you don't need to trailer, because it will limit you to far fewer spots, or to places which get pounded regularly. There are a hundred off the beaten path spots that hold bigs specifically because they're hard to get into. Get a small small jon boat you're able to deal with by yourself out of a pickup bed, or the lightest yak within your budget. Even a 60 pounder can be a misery to hump several hundred feet through sketchy terrain. Some of the tougher spots to get into is where you'll want to be once you get bored with the usual easy-access suspects, and you will after you've figured this thing out.

It sounds like lakes 1 & 3 are great lakes to fish for the bank angler. If you can walk into cracks between the "leaves of the clover" you are basically on points which should all be good places to target, pretty much year round.

 

I would not give up on lake 2 yet but may put less time there until you get a bass. It's possible that the area you have shore access is a bad spot in the summer, but may produce better early in the spring or later in the fall. If it turns out it's just a bad spot altogether, you may want to skip this one but I wouldn't write it off just yet.

 

14 hours ago, JayMac89 said:

That is the plan. Was thinking Jon boat. Most of these lakes allow hand launched boats. But i actually just started looking into pedal kayaks. Weighing out my options. Think I'd like a jon boat better. But would also most likley use it less due to having to trailer it. Kayak i can just toss in the back of my truck and go. Plans to do my research, see what's out there, and pull the trigger by end of winter so I'm all set once spring comes around. 

It's definitely a lot more fun when you are able to get off shore and hit all of the spots. The pedal units are nice because you can jog yourself in place while you fish a spot in deeper water and wind which is really hard to anchor in which I face with a paddle kayak frequently. But you can rig them out pretty comfortably, check around the net, maybe on Youtube for various setups.

On 8/18/2022 at 11:27 PM, JayMac89 said:

Kayak i can just toss in the back of my truck and go. Plans to do my research, see what's out there, and pull the trigger by end of winter so I'm all set once spring comes around. 

If you go this route you're going to have to pull the drive unit in many solid locations or you'll be relegated to fishing only the southern ends of many  spots after June. They're all somewhat clear on the dam end, but quickly top out with weeds heading towards the north end. Think the Patchogue lakes, Upper Yaphank, etc. Factor in a quality oar and never leave without it.

We may be right on top of each other PhishLI. Your good man. The patchogue lakes and upper lake are the lakes i was including in Lake 2. Artist was lake 1. I actually live a 1 minute drive from west lake. But again, spot on advice about pulling the drive. Again didn't think of this. 

 

I think I'm going to get a pair of waders in the mean time. Just to get some better angles and slightly deeper. I was leaning jon boat, now I'm leaning kayak. This is all new to me so I'm really digging in and doing my research. Those pedal kayaks are pricey. Not that i mind spending money. Don't want to throw money away. 

 

I'm seeing Old Town is a pretty popular brand. Brooklyn kayak company (or somthing like that) seems less expensive but don't look as nice. And Hobbie look like the rolls royce of kayaks. Any other brands worth looking at?

anytime you have a lake that is basically a shallow "bowl" type of lake with very little structure, what little structure there is will be a major hotspot. i would focus on those areas, in the middle of summer any shade, deep water, or grass will make a big difference.

 

i had to wade into a pond to get back an A-rig the other day, its a smooth banked pond like you describe but has a layer of grass on the bottom. There must've been a ten degree difference between the 8 inches of water under the grass, and the 2-6 feet above it, that explains why im only getting bit near bottom on this lake, but actual depth didn't seem to matter.

 

on another pond its much like you described, this pond had a smooth sandy bottom, no grass due to grass carp that had been stocked very little major depth changes, and smooth treeless bank except for one small point that was very overgrown. i fished around the whole lake getting only one bite, a 3lber on a submerged stump. when i got to the point that had trees to provide shade, i caught nearly 20 bass, two crappie, and there were baitfish absolutely everywhere, it was crazy how many fish were in that one area compared to the rest of the lake. 

my lesson from my last month of fishing, in structureless ponds, structure is more important than ever.

1 hour ago, JayMac89 said:

We may be right on top of each other PhishLI

I grew up down the road from Ronk, but I'm in Nassau now. I fish the prime spots from here to the east end. I may do an overnight at West any day now.

1 hour ago, JayMac89 said:

Your good man. The patchogue lakes and upper lake are the lakes i was including in Lake 2. Artist was lake 1

Once you described Artist...I've put in the time at these places.

1 hour ago, JayMac89 said:

I actually live a 1 minute drive from west lake.

Then you couldn't be at a better spot, but only if you're able to take advantage of it. Fishing the dead-end goose-chit ramp from the bank, and the dam-ends is merely scratching the surface. It's a tough nut to crack, but take your time, learn the rhythms of it, and your reward will be great. For real.

1 hour ago, JayMac89 said:

I think I'm going to get a pair of waders in the mean time.

Good idea. Go slow. Be safe. My suggestion: Go to DSG and get a pair of Frogg Toggs Canyon IIs chest breath-ables, and whichever boots you find comfortable. Get the Rana IIs hip waders if you're not ready for chest breath-ables. You'll need gel insoles for those though, trust me. Wading is a game changer in many places.

1 hour ago, JayMac89 said:

I'm seeing Old Town is a pretty popular brand. Brooklyn kayak company (or somthing like that) seems less expensive but don't look as nice. And Hobbie look like the rolls royce of kayaks. Any other brands worth looking at?

The kayak forum here is great. Ask as many questions as you need to. My suggestion is short, extra wide for stability, and light as possible. The ramps at all of the places we're talking about are washed out and deeply rutted. Getting a 12' 120 lb old town down through that without breaking an ankle in the process is something to think about. It sounds easy until you actually have to do it.

HunterPRO1, that makes alot of sense. In lake 1 my gut is telling me the fish are deeper. I think I'm going to go to lake 3 tomorrow morning and I'll keep this thought in mind. Iv been casting along the wall there, which i think is a good idea. But i also sort of cast randomly based off of a bite i got in open water in the past. Which i think is slowing me down and taking away time from where i should be fishing. I'm going to take this advice and focus on the structure tomorrow until i find somthing. Try and fish the lake smart and with a plan. 

 

And once again PhishLI, thank you. Did not expect someone with local knowledge to be found here but your insight is extremely helpful. I was looking at those exact waders, and I'll definitely ask around in the kayak forum. Somthing short and wide sounds great. And once i do get floating i know there's a ton of opportunity in west lake. Very excited about that.