Help me with my SV spool reels (Zillion/Tatula).

[MediumMouthBass]

Ive made several comments on here about my US 21 Zillion and Tatula SV TW and received quite a bit of backlash from them.

They are just garbage for what i paid for them, and what others have said their experience with their reels has been.

Both have sat on the shelf or in a box for the last few months because im not sure what to do with either, so i figured maybe you guys that are more experienced with Daiwa reels might be able to help, if not right for sale they go.

 

First up the Tatula SV TW, ive tried several different rods, brands, actions, powers, lengths, etc.... It cant cast light baits or heavy baits far.

Ive adjusted the so called "Zero Adjust", tried almost every brake setting too. I get about 20-40' tops (doesnt matter if im casting a weightless fluke or a 1/2oz aerodynamic lure). If i try really getting distance i might get to 60 feet but that will result in a backlash even with the thumb.

Im very upset with this reel, but i love the way the reel feels and looks, so i put it on a heavy rod and its purpose is to cast buzzbaits. It does it well but id like it to be able to handle more than just that. (12lb Yo Zuri Hybrid line if it matters).

 

Second on the list the highly praised 21 Zillion (US version however), i got it for the same price as the JDM ones just with a small factory blemish.

I did alot of research on this reel, everyone loves them, except the really big Shimano guys that hate on Daiwa for any and all reasons.

I waited for it to get lower and lower in price and bought it. From what i heard about the reel i decided it was going to be for my weightless soft plastics combo. I would rotate it from a medium-medium heavy rod depending on the brand fluke or senko.

The size of the reel was not good, i have average sized hands and it felt like the worlds smallest reel. But if it let me skip and cast weightless baits a mile i could overlook that very easily.

 

With anything heavier and more aerodynamic it was truly a phenomenal reel, but with a 1/2oz Warpig (lipless crank) i was beyond impressed.

The ease of casting, and then the distance? I was able to cast 20' further with the Zillion then with my Tatula CT or Lews BB1 Pro, and those were my 2 farthest casting reels!

But i didnt buy the reel for that, so i switched it over to a weightless senko and then a fluke. I was blown away with how poorly and awful it performed.... We are talking 20-40 feet at the furthest in distance, tried a medium and medium heavy rod, every spool tension and braking adjustment i possibly could. Nope. Switched to heavier Caffeine Shads, still awful. I actually backlashed it the first few times, but thats my fault. (i didnt thumb the spool, because if its an SV spool i thought i wouldnt have to).

 

Then on to the skipping part, even worse. Again tried all the different adjustments and even with a thumb it would result in a backlash.

Im not the best skipper, but i could do it just fine on the $30 Black Max using tape to make it a shallow spool....

(10lb Yo Zuri Hybrid on this reel)

 

 

 

Really not sure what to do here, i know i will get called a liar because "how could a Daiwa ever not be perfect" but these arent the only ones. My Tatula 150 is the same, no matter the bait after 40-60 feet, thats it. Thats 3 Daiwas with the Same issue. Bought apart, from different places.

2 with SV spools one without. Not sure if these were made during Covid where every and any company no matter what industry had 0 quality control and used whatever parts they could find, or what?

And i also know ill get called a Daiwa hater, well guess what? I love Daiwa, about the same as Shimano. But i have more Daiwa than anything else, i praise on here weekly about their Aird X rods, best rods money can buy in my opinion. I also talk about how much i enjoy using my 2 Tatula CT's and Fuego CT, along with my Revros reels. Do i like my Shimano reels? Absolutely. I like to be unbiased about brands because no 1 brand has everything i need, or want. If any of you can offer insight or ideas on what could be the issue with these reels i would greatly appreciate it, because i paid alot of money for them and really would love to use them, thank you.

[bulldog1935]

I never cast my Zillion with stock Boost SV spool with less than 1/8 oz for a test-cast, but I was getting 90' with mag set at about 4 -  stock spool w/ 12-lb fluoro.  

 

My real target was to fish this same lure on PE#1.2 braid, and I've fished it 4 years matched with Ray's Honeycomb SV spool, and it has never backlashed.  Normal mag set here is 6-7  

 

Daiwa over-builds their stock spools to make sure they will never be damaged by mono/fluoro stretch/ relaxation.  Here's the Ray's spool next to Dawia PE special that comes on Silver Wolf.  

The PE Special spool will hold a working charge of 10-lb fluoro, holding more line than Daiwa rates, and I bet it would fill your weightless senko niche just fine.  

 

But casting weightless, you don't really need the moving-SV function, because start-up backlash isn't a concern (unless you snap your wrist).  You can get 30+% more distance swapping to a fixed-rotor (braid only) BFS spool, such as Roro-X.  Mag gets set even higher, and I run this about 10-12.  The biggest part of this mag need, the spool only weighs 4 g, and the fixed inductor mass is also much lower than the SV inductor mass in the spools above.  

 

Another spool to consider for casting weightless and PE line is the new fixed-inductor BFS spool from Avail.  

[MediumMouthBass]

@bulldog1935 i appreciate the write up, however i dont think the BFS spool is what i need since the weightless soft plastics i would be using the most (Caffeine Shad) from what ive read weigh between 3/8-1/2oz. And for all the money i have into these reels, i really dont want to have to spend more money on additional spools.

I was thinking about maybe using braided line to get more distance? But i put some on my SLX MGL 70 and i learned how much i dislike braid for anything other than fishing in grass.

[softwateronly]

@bulldog1935 can you run through what kind of damage that can be done when not properly backing out the zero adjust on the zillion when opening/closing the side plate?  

 

scott

[bulldog1935]

Something's wrong with your mag number set-up if you're not getting effortless 100+' casting 3/8 oz.  

I have the advantage of a metered casting range in the back acre to works things out.  

Maybe check your rod rating to make sure the weight properly loads the rod.  

 

@softwateronly - first off, don't do that - always open zero adjust before you open the palm plate latch - before you fasten the latch, put the reel in freespool and make sure you have spool side play - and always re-set zero as the very last thing you do.  

 

If the spool spindle is too long for closing, you can damage the latch, you can deform/indent the palm plate spindle shims, which can affect pinion alignment on main gear, and you can buckle/bow the spool spindle.  

[softwateronly]

3 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Something's wrong with your mag number set-up if you're not getting effortless 100+' casting 3/8 oz.  

I have the advantage of a metered casting range in the back acre to works things out.  

Maybe check your rod rating to make sure the weight properly loads the rod.  

 

@softwateronly - first off, don't do that - always open zero adjust before you open the palm plate latch, and always re-set zero as the very last thing you do.  

 

If the spool spindle is too long for closing, you can damage the latch, you can deform/indent the palm plate spindle shims, and you can buckle/bow the spool spindle.  

I do now because of you and this site but there was a time when I didn't know and thought this might be part of the lack of lightweight casting on @MediumMouthBass part.

 

scott

[F14A-B]

I’m a Shimano guy that tried a Daiwa this past spring, grossly overbraked (sv) you want to throw lighter rigs buy a metanium shallow spool edition and prepare to smile…

 

Research the reel Jun will tell you about on Japan tackle. 

12 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Something's wrong with your mag number set-up if you're not getting effortless 100+' casting 3/8 oz.  

I have the advantage of a metered casting range in the back acre to works things out.  

Maybe check your rod rating to make sure the weight properly loads the rod.  

True. Even with the Daiwa I bought and tried with a zillion rod w regular bend I could get 130 feet easily w 3/8 just wouldn’t pitch worth a d**n..

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

Something's wrong with your mag number set-up if you're not getting effortless 100+' casting 3/8 oz.  

I have the advantage of a metered casting range in the back acre to works things out.  

Maybe check your rod rating to make sure the weight properly loads the rod.  

I tried Aird X M 7', Aird X MH 7'3"

rod ratings for both

1/4-3/4 for M, 1/4-1 for MH.

 

Both rods were able to fling the lipless crank for what felt like the farthest casts of my life.

Ive tried the same rods with Caffeine Shads (flukes) and 5" Ochos (senkos) with the regular Tatulas and didnt have an issue with distance. I know the rods can load them, i was able to narrow down the issue to these 3 reels, Zillion, Tatula SV, Tatula 150. Somehow they all have the same problem. But the Zillion is the only one that can break through that barrier with heavier baits.

But i have no idea what it is.

[bulldog1935]

The mass of the loaded spool may be the most important factor.  

I'm not really a Shimano guy, and I have specific targets/niches  for my Daiwas, but a shallower/ lighter spool per @F14A-B on a Shimano may be the solution you're looking for.  

[MediumMouthBass]

3 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

The mass of the loaded spool may be the most important factor.  

I'm not really a Shimano guy, and I have specific targets/niches  for my Daiwas, but a shallower/ lighter spool per @F14A-B on a Shimano may be the solution you're looking for.  

I might just have to call it a quits on the Zillion for lighter baits and just move it to a rod where it can be a primary lipless cranking combo. Since thats what it excels at and what i use the most. And just take off the braided line from the SLX MGL and put on some lighter hybrid line and that will be my fluke combo.

But for the Tatula SV and 150 im not sure what to do, since they cant even cast heavier stuff....

[little giant]

I have both sv and non sv diawa. Alphas, tats, zillions.

You might be overwhelming the sv brake at the beginning of the cast by using you wrist and trying to get distance. Try some sidearm casts. Probably have to do brake adjustments. I easily get 100' casts but I like moderate rods that load a lot and I use braid on all my baitcasters.....

[new2BC4bass]

I think you should send them to me! 

 

Kidding aside, I've only had a casting problem with one of my Daiwa reels, and that was with the much vaunted SV105.  Distance wasn't a problem.  Backlashing was.  I don't think it was me because I had about 40 Daiwa reels at that time.  A professional corrected the problem.  (And increased casting distance a bit.)

 

If max distance is a must, then an SV spool wouldn't be my first choice.  However, I believe they can be modified to cast further but you lose some of the inherent braking force of the SV spool.

 

I have no advice as to why your distance is so bad.  I would suggest having them checked out by a professional.  Or contact Daiwa about the problem and see what they will do for you.  I have 8 Daiwa baitcast reels with SV spools and have never had a problem with getting decent casting distance.

 

The SV Boost reel was getting the same distance as the other reel I was setting up (as best as I could tell on the water).  The other reel was an Okuma Hakai which the TT review said got very good distance.  Same hook and lure but different lines.

[ABU is overpriced]

I have no idea about Tatulas because i don't use entry level reels anymore. As for the Zillion, i don't know what to tell you, this is best bang for buck reel that was ever made by shimano or daiwa. If you find it too small, don't bother, and sell it. Comfort is important, so don't force yourself to use it if you find it too small, but i do wonder how it could feel too small unless you have hulk hands. Reels like the aldebaran, slx, etc are smaller, and i don't see anybody complaining about those reels being too small.

[MediumMouthBass]

6 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

I have no idea about Tatulas because i don't use entry level reels anymore. As for the Zillion, i don't know what to tell you, this is best bang for buck reel that was ever made by shimano or daiwa. If you find it too small, don't bother, and sell it. Comfort is important, so don't force yourself to use it if you find it too small, but i do wonder how it could feel too small unless you have hulk hands. Reels like the aldebaran, slx, etc are smaller, and i don't see anybody complaining about those reels being too small.

Oddly enough my hands are average size, the 100 sized reels like the Tatulas, SLX's, and LFS models fit perfectly. The 150 or larger reels feel awful, the Zillion isnt bad but its not great either in size for me.

Im on the fence about selling it, i thought about it for awhile but after taxes it would be a major loss. And in my journey of dozens upon dozens of casting reels i havent found one yet (until the Zillion) that will let me cast lipless cranks as far with 0 effort or backlash. I really prefer my Tatula CT for lipless cranks because it matches my Aird X rod in color (minus the gold) and it fits perfect, but the distance isnt as far. And i make lonnnnnnnng casts. Its comfort isnt pleasant but if it means i can cast how i like ive now convinved myself ill keep it and it will just be my primary lipless/chatterbait reel.

Just a little upset it isnt on par with every other Zillion ive heard about.....

 

Edit (maybe the reason i feel its smaller than most is the rods i use it with? The foam grips arent very thick)

Edited November 9 by MediumMouthBass

[casts_by_fly]

Find someone near you (maybe a helpful member here?) that knows how to cast and have them cast it. Or send it off to DVT for a once over and ask him to cast it first before pulling it apart. If it was one reel, bought as a blem, then who’s to say. But three of them and my original opinion (from your previous thread) still stands. There is something you’re doing in your casting stroke that the rod/reel combo doesn’t like. 
 

I’ll even make you an offer(genuinely). If you can’t find someone local, send them here. I’ll put all three through their paces to give you a second opinion and fresh set of eyes before you give up on them. I’ll do side by side vs my own zillion and shimanos. For the $10 shipping to get them here you can have an answer once and for all. And if I’m wrong in my above statement, I’ll send them back with a handwritten apology. PM if interested. 

 

[Bigbox99]

Do you know how to cast?  Not everyone does and I see people really softly lobbing baits all the time because they don't understand how to cast for distance.  I've seen people cast with the rod parallel to their arms the whole swing with no wrist snap or no understanding of casting over their shoulder and just swing from right to left or even upswing like their are golfing or something.  The less energy put into the cast means less energy sent to the bait and less distance. 

[PBBrandon]

SV spool Daiwas are different animals than Shimano reels. Casting with them is completely different than Shimanos.

 

All my Zillions I have the adjuster to minimum play in the spool, and typically am at 4-8 on the dial depending on lure weight. I can go down to 0 on my Tatula because of how aggressive the braking is. The Zillion and Steez reels have the boost spool which is slightly less aggressive than the Tatula and Alphas regular SV spools. 
 

With Shimanos you can be real hard and put a lot of force into casting, if you try that with a Daiwa SV, you will backlash like crazy. A Daiwa cast should be more snappy, less arm, more wrist. I personally sidearm cast 90% of the time, and prefer using Daiwas in that regard. Overhead bombs, I like Shimanos a bit more. 
 

Shimanos and Lews have a higher casting distance ceiling than Daiwa, but you should be able to cast 80-90% the distance with a Daiwa using half the effort

[MediumMouthBass]

7 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

Do you know how to cast? 

I have 23 casting reels at the moment, ive used all. Only had an issue with these 3 and these 3 only.

Im not the best when it comes to accuracy, but for ease of cast and distance im very good with most reels. However i wasnt very good 2 years ago, i was always trying to hard to cast and put in too much effort and some reels really didnt like that. Ive since then trained myself to try a more gentle and free flowing movement throughout the cast and its been working well. Ive tried side arm roll casts, side casts, overhead casts, tried really slowing the motion down, or speeding it up, it doesnt make a difference with Tatula SV and Tatula 150. The Zillion only has issues with weightless soft plastics and skipping, put a 1/2oz lure on it and that thing flies farther than anything. But those 2 Tatulas cant go past 40-60' no matter what. Which is odd since my other 2 base model Tatulas are my main reels for getting distance easily.

10 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

But three of them and my original opinion (from your previous thread) still stands. There is something you’re doing in your casting stroke that the rod/reel combo doesn’t like. 

I would agree with this for the Zillion, but the Tatula 150 no matter what i do after 40' the lure just drops straight down, maybe too thick grease in the gears? The Tatula SV might be how i cast, its the first reel i bought with an SV spool and i cast it the same as every other reel. Ill have to try a few different things the next time on the water to see if it makes a difference.

 

How are you guys casting your reels with SV spools to get good results?

[casts_by_fly]

1 hour ago, MediumMouthBass said:

 

I would agree with this for the Zillion, but the Tatula 150 no matter what i do after 40' the lure just drops straight down, maybe too thick grease in the gears? The Tatula SV might be how i cast, its the first reel i bought with an SV spool and i cast it the same as every other reel. Ill have to try a few different things the next time on the water to see if it makes a difference.

 

How are you guys casting your reels with SV spools to get good results?

there are no gears when you are casting. When you click the button, you are in freespool. There are a number of bearings and bushings (it varies by reel) that keep the spool spindle in place. When you click the button, your lure should free fall to the ground (fast or slow is personal preference and style. The zillion should be fast if you’re using the brakes). The gears and bearings should have negligible resistance on the spool when the lure is in flight. The amount is governed by the spool tension knob which on a zillion should be ‘negligible’ tension.  On other reels that have good brakes you also may want negligible spool tension and let the brakes do the job. 
 

There are two different but acceptable ways to set up a reel. 
 

1- negligible spool tension and enough brakes to not overrun. 

 

2- negligible braking and enough spool tension to not overrun. 
 

you could crank both up to eliminate backlashes but distance will be poor. You can crank both down and just use your thumb like old timers but it takes a lot of practice. 
 

Scenario 1 above is the recommendation for a zillion, SV spools, other reels with shallow spools and good braking mechanisms. The spool is free and flows with no effort or restraint from tension.  When the spool spins fast from a cast (like a hard cast or quick flick) the brakes slow down the spin to help prevent overruns.  This type of reel setup works well with high lure speed wrist casting, roll casts, etc because the brakes help tame that initial burst of input. 
 

Scenario two is often where new casters start and many never leave. It’s the “add enough spool tension so the lure drops slowly and the spool stops when it hits the ground” club. This is how my dad has cast for 40 years and how I learned. The spool tension is constant through the cast and more than negligible. It’s constantly slowing the lure. This type of setup works best for casting styles that have a smoother application of power and more constant lure speed. A casual sidearm cast is a good example. This often pairs well with slightly more moderate actioned rods that have a smooth power stroke over a longer casting stroke. 
 

If you are experienced, you can pick up either type and get on just fine. I sometimes have both types set up in the boat at the same time. You just have to remember which one you picked up before you make that first cast. 
 

 

are you sure you haven’t over spooled the reels?  Shallow spools don’t take much line and over spooling would cause the issues you’re seeing. 

[ABU is overpriced]

15 hours ago, MediumMouthBass said:

Oddly enough my hands are average size, the 100 sized reels like the Tatulas, SLX's, and LFS models fit perfectly. The 150 or larger reels feel awful, the Zillion isnt bad but its not great either in size for me.

Im on the fence about selling it, i thought about it for awhile but after taxes it would be a major loss. And in my journey of dozens upon dozens of casting reels i havent found one yet (until the Zillion) that will let me cast lipless cranks as far with 0 effort or backlash. I really prefer my Tatula CT for lipless cranks because it matches my Aird X rod in color (minus the gold) and it fits perfect, but the distance isnt as far. And i make lonnnnnnnng casts. Its comfort isnt pleasant but if it means i can cast how i like ive now convinved myself ill keep it and it will just be my primary lipless/chatterbait reel.

Just a little upset it isnt on par with every other Zillion ive heard about.....

 

Edit (maybe the reason i feel its smaller than most is the rods i use it with? The foam grips arent very thick)

The rod can play a role, yes. Reel seat as well. Also, how long have you been using it? It might just be a matter of getting used to the frame. I remember getting the 2016 steez, and absolutely hated it for the first 5-10 days on the water, but then i got used to it, and the discomfort was gone (even tho i never liked it for jerkbaits because the palming side plate is digging into my palm). From day one, i found the Zillion very comfy, tho, but i do have small'ish hands.

[little giant]

"The reel test" on yt got 165' zillion sv tw using a 6'6" rod. Just saying.....

[bulldog1935]

On 11/8/2024 at 7:09 PM, little giant said:

I have both sv and non sv diawa. Alphas, tats, zillions.

You might be overwhelming the sv brake at the beginning of the cast by using you wrist and trying to get distance. Try some sidearm casts. Probably have to do brake adjustments. I easily get 100' casts but I like moderate rods that load a lot and I use braid on all my baitcasters.....

@little giant is onto something here.  

I have two friends who can't load a rod for boo.  While both swing their arm/rod back, they always stop and let the rod unload completely (even turn around and look at it), then snap their wrists hard for forward cast stroke.  

Their rod acceleration is only one half of a normal cast, and they make up for it with severe wrist jerk.  

This gets a working cast result with spinning tackle.  If they tried this with linear-mag-brake baitcaster, they'd get bad start-up backlash.  

If they tried this with MagForce/Z/SV baitcaster, they'd only get half a cast, because the brake design is doing its job, subtracting all that jerk at start-up.  

 

[woolleyfooley]

23 hours ago, ABU is overpriced said:

The rod can play a role, yes. Reel seat as well. Also, how long have you been using it? It might just be a matter of getting used to the frame. I remember getting the 2016 steez, and absolutely hated it for the first 5-10 days on the water, but then i got used to it, and the discomfort was gone (even tho i never liked it for jerkbaits because the palming side plate is digging into my palm). From day one, i found the Zillion very comfy, tho, but i do have small'ish hands.

Did you find the steez big or small? I find the steez a2 to be quite wide. 

[ABU is overpriced]

2 hours ago, woolleyfooley said:

Did you find the steez big or small? I find the steez a2 to be quite wide. 

Exactly, way too wide, especially in the front. But what killed it for me most is the palming side plate digging into my palm when using jerkbaits. Same issue with the 2013 Metanium frame, but instead of digging into my palm during a jerk, i just find this frame to be too long and very poor to palm. Very excited to test the 2024 met dc that i hope gets delivered from Japan before it snows here. Really curious of how i feel about it palmability, especially during a jerk motion.