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.ghoti.

Boxing is dead, or dying ?

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Boxing has indeed been in a long, slow decline for the last two decades. And, any of us who follow the sport know why. The blame can be placed firmly on the heads of the promoters. Without going into all of that nonsense, I will say there are quite a few really talented boxers out there, right now. Let me list a few, by division., guys who I think are really worth watching

 

Heavyweights Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder

Cruiserweights Oleksandr Usyk, Murat Gasiev, Denis Lebedev, Mairis Briedis

Light heavyweight Ande Ward, Sergei Kovalev, Adonis Stevenson, Artur Beterbiev

Super middleweight nobody interests me here

Middleweight Gennady Golovkin, Daniel Jacobs, Canelo Alverez

junior middleweight nobody here either

Welterweight Keith Thurman, Errol Spence, Danny Garcia

Junior welterweight Terence Crawford

Lightweight Mikey Garcia, Robert Easter, Jorge Linares

Junior lightweight Vasyl Lomachencko, Miguel Berchelt, Takashi Miura

Featherweight Leo Santa Cruz, Carl Frampton, Abner Mares, Gary Russell

I haven't seen enough in the lowest four divisions to have a valid opinion except Roman Gonzales

 

Pound for pound, my version, who is the hardest to beat, right now.

1 Vasyl Lomachenko There is simply nobody, anywhere near his weight, who has a chance to beat this guy. Widely considered the greatest amateur boxer of all time, he made the transition to professional with no problems. His only problem is he's too good. Nobody wants to get in the ring with him.

 

2 Terence Crawford- Bud easily beat the best of the 135lb division, has done the same at 140. He has two belts at 140. Julius Indongo has the other two. They will fight soon. Crawford will win that to unify, and then move up to 147. There's nobody there who can beat him either. He can fight from either stance. The best switch hitter since Marvin Hagler. And has a serious mean streak in the ring. He says he wants to fight Pacquiao. If that fight happens, and I would bet good money it doesn't, Crawford will beat Pacman into a final retirement. It would be a good fight for a few rounds, then would turn into a serious beat down.

 

3 Mikey Garcia- Mikey is one of the most technically sound boxers you will ever see. Offense, defense, transition between the two, footwork, postioning, he does it all very well. And, he can put you to sleep with either hand. A titleist at 126 and 130, he is currently one of the 135lb champions. There are two good fights for him at 135. Linares and Easter. Both good fights, but I dont think either has the skills to beat Mikey.

 

4 Gennady Golovkin- Undefeated, 23 consecutive knockouts. The streak ended with his last fight against Daniel Jacobs, which had many saying he was slipping, it was over, he was vulnerable, and other nonsense. That fight proved how good Danny Jacobs really is, not how GGG has declined. It also proved how fickle boxing fans can be. And how stupid. His only issue is defense. He is so offense minded that he can be hit. Curtis Stevens, a knockout puncher, hit him. David Lemieux, a knockout puncher, hit him. Danny Jacobs, a knockout puncher, hit him. He proved he has a granite chin. All they did by hitting him was slow down the onslaught for a little bit. Nobody at 160 wants to fight him, because nobody at 160 can beat him. Which brings up the next guy.

 

5 Canelo Alvarez The best at 154. But, he hasnt had a challenging fight since he lost to Mayweather. Floyd outclassed him completely. Hebahs however outclassed everybody at 154 who would get in the ring with him. It seems nobody at 154 wants to fight him. He is a big junior middleweight. Henthinks he canfight at middleweight, and has stepped up to face Triple G. This may be a good fight. I'm looking forward to it, but I think he has bitten of more than he can chew. Canelo has fast hands, is a very accurate puncher and counter puncher, has good defense, but has slow feet. Mayweather beat him with superior footwork and a fast jab. Golovkin has excellent footwork and positioning, and a great stiff jab. The only way Canelo wins is by knockout, and I just dont see that happening. He will be back down to 154, and will reign there as long as he wants to. There are some great fight to made there, think Chatllo brothers, if they will go for it.

 

6 Anthony Joshua. An Olympic gold medalist, turned pro, he and Vladimir Klitschko just had the best heavyweight fight in a very long time. There will likely be a rematch. AJ probably wins that too. The heavyweight division is looking the best it has in a couple of decades. Some very good fighters here. Deontay Wilder, Luis Ortiz, Big Baby Miller maybe, Joseph Parker. Can any of them beat Joshua. Probably not.

 

7 - 10 Andre Ward, Sergei Kovalev, Danny Jacobs, Keith Thurman

 

That's my list. Dont agree? Cool. Let's see yours.

 

There are too many quality fighters, and too may good fights to be made for boxing to die.

 

To all you promoters, you freaking wingnuts, make the fights.

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Having been a Golden Gloves Light Welterweight (5' 11 3/4" 137#) it's my opinion pay per view is killing the sport. Boxing used to be a blue collar sport & front page news. Now it's doesn't even make the back page of the sport section. 

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43 minutes ago, d**n Yankee said:

I think Don King,Bob Arum ect. turned the sport into a circus.

I miss Marvin Hagler.

 

Marvin Hagler was The Man !

Ran in the sand with workboots. 

:smiley:

A-Jay

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1 hour ago, d**n Yankee said:

I think Don King,Bob Arum ect. turned the sport into a circus.

I miss Marvin Hagler.

Those promoters made boxing big in the 70s and 80s, it's the everyone gets a trophy crowd that dislikes boxing and subsequently it's pushed out of the mainstream. Not too mention the younger crowd needs more than just the sweet science..boxing and baseball are too slow and require too much strategy and thought.

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2 hours ago, deaknh03 said:

Those promoters made boxing big in the 70s and 80s, it's the everyone gets a trophy crowd that dislikes boxing and subsequently it's pushed out of the mainstream. Not too mention the younger crowd needs more than just the sweet science..boxing and baseball are too slow and require too much strategy and thought.

Sadly, those same promoters really ripped off boxers. I heard Mike Tyson talk about Don King and you can hear the anger towards him in his voice. I don't think Don King ever thought about the future of boxing or even the future of the fighters he promoted. He only thought about the money he was making and how to make more. Keep in mind, during the 80's and into the 90's a fighter couldn't get a title shot unless he had Don King behind him. Also King has been sued by a who's who of fighters. Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes and Tim Witherspoon. All for not paying fighters what was promised. How can a sport thrive or even survive with corruption like that.   

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The explosion and popularity of UFC over the years has also pushed boxing into a secondary tier sport.  Not saying that its better than boxing but there seems to be a lot more people that follow instead of boxing now.

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6 hours ago, .ghoti. said:

Boxing has indeed been in a long, slow decline for the last two decades. And, any of us who follow the sport know why. The blame can be placed firmly on the heads of the promoters. Without going into all of that nonsense, I will say there are quite a few really talented boxers out there, right now. Let me list a few, by division., guys who I think are really worth watching

 

Heavyweights Anthony Joshua, Deontay Wilder

Cruiserweights Oleksandr Usyk, Murat Gasiev, Denis Lebedev, Mairis Briedis

Light heavyweight Ande Ward, Sergei Kovalev, Adonis Stevenson, Artur Beterbiev

Super middleweight nobody interests me here

Middleweight Gennady Golovkin, Daniel Jacobs, Canelo Alverez

junior middleweight nobody here either

Welterweight Keith Thurman, Errol Spence, Danny Garcia

Junior welterweight Terence Crawford

Lightweight Mikey Garcia, Robert Easter, Jorge Linares

Junior lightweight Vasyl Lomachencko, Miguel Berchelt, Takashi Miura

Featherweight Leo Santa Cruz, Carl Frampton, Abner Mares, Gary Russell

I haven't seen enough in the lowest four divisions to have a valid opinion except Roman Gonzales

 

Pound for pound, my version, who is the hardest to beat, right now.

1 Vasyl Lomachenko There is simply nobody, anywhere near his weight, who has a chance to beat this guy. Widely considered the greatest amateur boxer of all time, he made the transition to professional with no problems. His only problem is he's too good. Nobody wants to get in the ring with him.

 

2 Terence Crawford- Bud easily beat the best of the 135lb division, has done the same at 140. He has two belts at 140. Julius Indongo has the other two. They will fight soon. Crawford will win that to unify, and then move up to 147. There's nobody there who can beat him either. He can fight from either stance. The best switch hitter since Marvin Hagler. And has a serious mean streak in the ring. He says he wants to fight Pacquiao. If that fight happens, and I would bet good money it doesn't, Crawford will beat Pacman into a final retirement. It would be a good fight for a few rounds, then would turn into a serious beat down.

 

3 Mikey Garcia- Mikey is one of the most technically sound boxers you will ever see. Offense, defense, transition between the two, footwork, postioning, he does it all very well. And, he can put you to sleep with either hand. A titleist at 126 and 130, he is currently one of the 135lb champions. There are two good fights for him at 135. Linares and Easter. Both good fights, but I dont think either has the skills to beat Mikey.

 

4 Gennady Golovkin- Undefeated, 23 consecutive knockouts. The streak ended with his last fight against Daniel Jacobs, which had many saying he was slipping, it was over, he was vulnerable, and other nonsense. That fight proved how good Danny Jacobs really is, not how GGG has declined. It also proved how fickle boxing fans can be. And how stupid. His only issue is defense. He is so offense minded that he can be hit. Curtis Stevens, a knockout puncher, hit him. David Lemieux, a knockout puncher, hit him. Danny Jacobs, a knockout puncher, hit him. He proved he has a granite chin. All they did by hitting him was slow down the onslaught for a little bit. Nobody at 160 wants to fight him, because nobody at 160 can beat him. Which brings up the next guy.

 

5 Canelo Alvarez The best at 154. But, he hasnt had a challenging fight since he lost to Mayweather. Floyd outclassed him completely. Hebahs however outclassed everybody at 154 who would get in the ring with him. It seems nobody at 154 wants to fight him. He is a big junior middleweight. Henthinks he canfight at middleweight, and has stepped up to face Triple G. This may be a good fight. I'm looking forward to it, but I think he has bitten of more than he can chew. Canelo has fast hands, is a very accurate puncher and counter puncher, has good defense, but has slow feet. Mayweather beat him with superior footwork and a fast jab. Golovkin has excellent footwork and positioning, and a great stiff jab. The only way Canelo wins is by knockout, and I just dont see that happening. He will be back down to 154, and will reign there as long as he wants to. There are some great fight to made there, think Chatllo brothers, if they will go for it.

 

6 Anthony Joshua. An Olympic gold medalist, turned pro, he and Vladimir Klitschko just had the best heavyweight fight in a very long time. There will likely be a rematch. AJ probably wins that too. The heavyweight division is looking the best it has in a couple of decades. Some very good fighters here. Deontay Wilder, Luis Ortiz, Big Baby Miller maybe, Joseph Parker. Can any of them beat Joshua. Probably not.

 

7 - 10 Andre Ward, Sergei Kovalev, Danny Jacobs, Keith Thurman

 

That's my list. Dont agree? Cool. Let's see yours.

 

There are too many quality fighters, and too may good fights to be made for boxing to die.

 

To all you promoters, you freaking wingnuts, make the fights.

I'm glad you had Canelo Alvarez on here.IMO the only fighter worth watching at the moment. He's the only guy keeping me interested  in boxing.

PPV is absolutely killing the sport though. 100$ a fight is getting ridiculous. 

Even Tyson vs Holyfield was like 60 bucks.

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6 hours ago, d**n Yankee said:
5 hours ago, A-Jay said:

 

Marvin Hagler was The Man !

Ran in the sand with workboots. 

:smiley:

A-Jay

 

I miss Marvin Hagler.

 

Sugar Ray Leonard ;)

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13 hours ago, MassBassin508 said:

I'm glad you had Canelo Alvarez on here.IMO the only fighter worth watching at the moment. He's the only guy keeping me interested  in boxing.

PPV is absolutely killing the sport though. 100$ a fight is getting ridiculous. 

Even Tyson vs Holyfield was like 60 bucks.

Canelo is fun to watch. He' on my list because, at 154, he is unbeatable by anybody in the division. But he's not the only guy worth watching right now. If you haven't seen Lomechenko, you really need to do so. 

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1 hour ago, .ghoti. said:

Canelo is fun to watch. He' on my list because, at 154, he is unbeatable by anybody in the division. But he's not the only guy worth watching right now. If you haven't seen Lomechenko, you really need to do so. 

I'll have to do that. It's been awhile since I could say I was excited about a fight.

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3 hours ago, andyfender said:

It still ticks me off that the powers that be gave that fight to Leonard! 

 

The powers that be was Marvin Hagler!

 

Hagler give that fight away ;)

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30 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

The powers that be was Marvin Hagler!

 

Hagler give that fight away ;)

 

Granted he should of went south paw earlier and cut the ring off.

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Gennady Golovkin vs Canelo Alverez should be in the top 5 fights of the year.

 

let's face it, we love to see knockouts.  there are so many knockouts in MMA b/c so many guys aren't trained well in boxing.  makes it more exciting but it's no sweet science.  true enthusiasts appreciate both.

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On 7/15/2017 at 5:42 PM, A-Jay said:

 

Marvin Hagler was The Man !

Ran in the sand with workboots. 

:smiley:

A-Jay

 

If you like Marvin, then you have to love Rocky Marciano.  If memory serves, both hailed from Brockton, MA.  Rocky retired undefeated.  He even beat Muhammed Ali in a computer generated boxing match, long after he was retired.

 

How could Rocky lose?  All the stats were fed into the computer.  How could the computer have a boxer with an imperfect record beat one with an unblemished record?

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Hagler moved to Italy when he retired and acted in Spaghetti westerns. Weird.

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2 hours ago, Fishing Rhino said:

 

If you like Marvin, then you have to love Rocky Marciano.  If memory serves, both hailed from Brockton, MA.  Rocky retired undefeated.  He even beat Muhammed Ali in a computer generated boxing match, long after he was retired.

 

How could Rocky lose?  All the stats were fed into the computer.  How could the computer have a boxer with an imperfect record beat one with an unblemished record?

Rocco Francis Marchegiano or Rocky Marciano held the Title from 1952 to 1956 which was just a little before my time as a boxing fan.

Would have love to see him fight live. Known for his incredible stamina, relentlessness, and ability to fight rough and swarm on the inside.

Rocky was also famous for punching his opponents arms while they were blocking punches. Didn't score points but seemed to have a serious detrimental effect in later rounds. 

A-Jay

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I would agree . to much shadiness or contriversial decisions.  nascar not far behind .let men be men in boxing, and go back to if its not  on the street you cant run it!!

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I put promoters as the number one reason for sure. If it isn't Triple G, Canelo, or Maywhether than you don't here about it. The Broner/Alverez fight this weekend should of had more promotion. Boxing was dead in my town but living in Toledo, OH Robert Easter has brought the sport back. I think MMA is still more popular but they are willing to put the dollars in to market each and every fight and majority of their fighters.

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This weekends fight should be good!  Mikey Garcia vs Adrien Broner.  Also one of the Charlo brothers on the undercard.  I'm looking forward to the GGG vs Canelo fight.  I think that fight can go either way, but I'll give the edge to Canelo as he's younger, faster, and has been improving with every fight.  Golovkin has been looking a little tired in his last couple fights. 

 

Vasily Lomanchenko is on another level.  No one can touch him.  I'd also like to see Wilder fight Joshua.  My money would be on Wilder.  I don't care for Andre Ward.  Kovalev was robbed in the first fight! 

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Redline, is this a case of great minds think alike? Or is it fools never differ? I agree with everything you said. 

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Depending on the day, both are probably relevant.   :P

 

Mikey Garcia looked good tonight.  Did I hear correctly?   Garcia vs Lomanchenko!?  That would be a great match, although I don't think Mikey is ready for that!

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I've followed boxing for about 50 years. I have never seem anybody as good as Lomachenko. I think Mikey is one of only two guys who could cause him any problems. Terence Crawford is the other. Both are too big for Loma.

 

Lomachenko won his second Olypmic gold at 132. Then went down to 126 to join the pro ranks. He went to 130 because nobody would fight him at 126. So those are his natural weight classes. He could probaly beat anybody at 135, but would have to muscle up the go up any further. Muscling up typically does not work well for boxers.

 

Mikey lost his 126 title on the scales. He is still growing. He looked stronger and more comfortable at 140. He may stay there. Depends on who they can make a fight with at 135, where he holds a belt. He says he would like to unify, then move up. I hope they can make the fights at 135? There a couple of good ones to be made. We will see him at 147 in a couple of years.

 

Crawford has one more fight at 140. He'll beat Indongo to unify the titles at 140, and then go looking for big money at 147.

 

What is really intriguing is we could see Mikey and Crawford both at 147, with Keith Thurman and Errol Spence. There are a bunch of good fights there. Any combination of those four would produce a great fight. Can't wait.

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Boxing has it's problems, and I agree with a lot of what's already been stated.  The thing is, the sport is far from dead just because it isn't major American news the way it once was.  It's still a huge sport through the rest of the world, despite it being a mess thanks to promoters, having 5 different major governing bodies, etc.  

 

As for talent - there's a TON of talent right now.  Andre Ward and Kovalev just had two amazing fights.  Klitschko, at 40 something, just looked better than ever in a loss to Joshua less than two months ago.  I missed most of the Broner/Garcia fight last night to watch the UFC card, but both are talented fighters.  Garcia is technically really, really good, and Broner is just a phenomenal athlete.  GGG v Canelo is going to be a fireworks fight since both hit hard, set up power punches off the jab, and neither are particularly great defensive fighters.  I would be shocked and disappointed if this goes the distance.  Lomachenko is incredibly talented and a beautiful defensive fighter that sets up KOs with movement/angles and by taking his opponents off balance.  Guillermo Rigondeaux also does these things, and he's a southpaw.  If this match happens, it could be the best technical boxing match in years - and someone will probably get knocked out.  If you aren't familiar with Guillermo Rigondeaux, hit up youtube - he's the best defensive southpaw since Whitaker and his movement is good enough to get Lomachenko out of position.  Also, his story about defecting from Cuba is incredible.  If you aren't watching him, you're missing one of the best boxers of this, or potentially any generation.  He's sorta a southpaw version of Lomachenko that Lomachenko is currently running from.

 

As for the Mayweather v McGregor thing... I don't expect a great boxing match, and we can all talk about why it's a mess.  HOWEVER, at this point, anything that brings more mainstream attention to boxing is a great thing.  What's likely is that an all-time top 10 boxer ends up knocking out probably the best self-promoting fighter any of us have ever seen.  It creates a lot of talk and a lot of attention.  What's important is that boxing actually do something positive with that attention.  

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