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Hotfoot17

BPT - Affect on local Team Tourneys?

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Very interesting interview on the last BTL. Boducket seems like a very slippery person, deflecting and dodging questions. I really don't care what they do... but will it affect us, Team tournament Anglers.

 

Even though the fish we chase and weigh in are a renewable resource…  from BASS to FLW and all the way down the line, I believe we love the fish we catch and do everything possible to make sure they are released in good condition. But is the “new tour” intentionally or unintentionally going to use some kind of political correctness as a weapon to attack BASS/ FLW and to eliminate their weigh in’s? They do use their "superior fish care" in some of their advertising. And they say they have no competition??  They may be hoping to influence states to outlaw the weigh in’s and flat out eliminate their competition.

 

I think they are fundamentally trying to change the sport… if you know what I mean. That could trickle all the way down to our weekend team tournaments…. No weigh in’s?

In the end will this new wave of kinder and gentler bass tournaments really grow the sport, or destroy it? 
If BPT is not intentionally using the fish care to eliminate their competition, will there be un-intended consequences on the tournament scene from the good intension of these type of tournaments?
Do we mange our lakes and rivers with science or not?
And where will the first weigh in’s of a renewable resource be outlawed? 
What takes more fish from a lake,  a non tournament person catching a limit and killing them or a 25 team tournament releasing all the fish they weigh in?
We all pay for a license to use the resource.... so just asking the questions.

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I've met and spoken to Boyd in person, and he's hardly what I'd describe as "slippery."  I think he, and the rest of the founding angler believe they have a better product.  The market will bear the truth in that.  I don't see how anyone could stop local tournaments from using what ever format is legal.  The whole point of the industry is to sell products.  How would attacking some other component benefit? 

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The conspiracy-theory part of me thinks that they are using the anti-livewell stuff to push for states that are already cracking down on tournaments to go over the edge and ban livewell usage....And snowball it from there.  MLF has their system in place and would be the only game in town for tournament fishing until other tours adapted.  

 

But the smart and logical part of me thinks that it's probably just their way of marketing themselves...Even though I don't buy what they're trying to sell.  I think they significantly overplayed that angle.  

 

I personally don't care for the BPT and every trickle of info or rumor that comes out about it only furthers those feelings...But I wouldn't go as far as buying into the conspiracy-theory stuff.  

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1 minute ago, Logan S said:

But the smart and logical part of me thinks that it's probably just their way of marketing themselves...Even though I don't buy what they're trying to sell.  I think they significantly overplayed that angle.  

Listen to this part of your brain. It’s all marketing. If they didn’t come up with a new angle to tournament fishing how could they even stand a chance to last more than a year? Others have tried and failed. Now they have a different format they stand a chance. 

 

Over playing the angle is marketing. We see it in every aspect of our lives. Your favorite TV show gives you a tid bit of action then cuts to the commercials. Advertising same deal. 

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I think there are still a lot of hurt feelings because of all the anglers leaving.  All three tours are trying to capitalize on their strengths. I read some comments where people were upset that MLF didn't want their anglers at other trails expos.  That seems obvious to me.  I wouldn't expect BASS or FLW to send their stars to MLF events to help them. I really hope all 3 tours do well. I love watching all 3 so I feel like I am the winner.   MLF really is a different format and business plan.  TV and live streaming are where the big money is made.  I have a hard time believing that the 80 anglers who went to MLF are trying to ruin bass fishing for the average angler.  For all these conspiracy theories to be believable you would have to convince me that guys like KVD, Mark Davis, Shaw Grigsby, and others are trying to kill club level fishing. I don't buy it.  

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You almost sound a little afraid :lol: ‘Growing the sport’ doesn’t necessarily mean creating more anglers, but look toward the existing college and high school ranks to see what develops and whether this new format will be the deal going forward or not. Political correctness will have little to do with changing the resource - science will.

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I'm a fan of MLF, not really a fan of Bassmaster, no fan of FLW even though I tried to watch but the coverage has been horrible.  At least Bassmaster and FLW can say they have existed outside of cable TV.  They are real sporting leagues.  MLF, at least before this year, has been all about being a cable TV show, and being a cable TV show is not really something to be proud of considering the amount of crap on nearly every TV channel.  MLF is going from a cable TV show to a real sporting league.  We will see if they pull it off.  After saying all that, MLF is 100% more fun than Bassmaster or any other fishing competition and connects with me more.  Heck, I just got on the MLF website and ordered an MLF T-shirt.  Their logos are so cool!!!

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Ducket seems like a straight shooter and I think he has been trying to take the high road in all his answers, he says he has respect for BASS and FLW.  I give him credit for that.  

 

 

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I don't fish tournaments but I enjoy watching bass and flw. I can't believe that no one ever mentions or pushes for a combination of the two, catch weigh and release best 5 fish. Professionals being rewarded for catching one lb bass makes me change the channel every single time. Might as well watch pro ball players do layup drills 

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43 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I don't fish tournaments but I enjoy watching bass and flw. I can't believe that no one ever mentions or pushes for a combination of the two, catch weigh and release best 5 fish. being rewarded for catching one lb bass makes me change the channel every single time. Might as well watch pro ball players do layup drills 

I too don't understand why it can't be that way. You could still do the same format, weigh/release and just count the biggest 5. Maybe it has to do with the score tracker or whatever, but I don't know why it wouldn't work. I like MLF/BPT way more at this point but I think it could work. Some guys "quit" fishing when they have a 40 lb lead, but IMO everyone would have to fish hard for all three periods with no letting up.

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On 4/19/2019 at 7:28 PM, Team9nine said:

You almost sound a little afraid :lol: ‘Growing the sport’ doesn’t necessarily mean creating more anglers, but look toward the existing college and high school ranks to see what develops and whether this new format will be the deal going forward or not. Political correctness will have little to do with changing the resource - science will.

Afraid of what? (maybe you were joking) I am concerned that intended or unintended consequences of BPT could wreck what a lot of us like to do on the weekends. If you believe science were the only deal that really mattered, then you must not have looked too deeply into some issues.

 

(2 examples) Mille Lacs was so loaded with walleyes that the first year the Elite Pros went on stage and said they walleye fishery was amazing, the second year they were told to zip it and not talk about it even though some did. I fished walleye tournaments there for 20 years, been through good and bad times. We have not been allowed to keep any walleyes for the last 3 years even though the lake is LOADED and at one of the highest points in my experience. Not regulated scientifically because of other possibly political issues.

 

Another example of how things work and progress. I have run a tournament series for several years. 2 years ago we decided we wanted to do the best for the fish (because we love bass and bass fishing tournaments) so we bought bags that had liners and made a rule that fish could only be brought to the scales in our bags. We only passed out 6 bags that had to be shared so there was never a long wait. The new bags allowed for the fish to be out of the water for just moments while it was placed on the scale. This year the DNR adopted our way now and all tournaments are supposed to abide by their new rule. So if you take that real life example of the DNR ruling on weigh bags,  and now say that CWR is better for the fish and lake, a person could argue that all tournaments should be CWR. Even though the following question would need to be answered about this renewable resource and who has the right to use it while paying for their license. So.... What takes more fish from a lake,  a non tournament person catching a limit and killing them or a 25 team tournament releasing all the fish they weigh in?

On 4/19/2019 at 2:10 PM, J Francho said:

I've met and spoken to Boyd in person, and he's hardly what I'd describe as "slippery."

I know what I watched....go watch that BTL show and then come back and say he was not slippery, dodging and deflecting questions. Apparently many people who comment on the youtube comments saw the same as I did.

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18 hours ago, Hotfoot17 said:

 So.... What takes more fish from a lake,  a non tournament person catching a limit and killing them or a 25 team tournament releasing all the fish they weigh in?

The 25 boat tournaments kill more, no doubt 😉 Numerous surveys in our area show almost no harvest of bass, with upwards of 96% C&R now days. The 25 boat tournaments are there on the lake every weekend and often a day or two through the week. No doubt that accumulated pressure is killing more fish around here than the few recreational guys who accidentally catch one or two and keep them. They even ran a tag reward program here to figure out how many people were catching and keeping bass. End result, big failure - they hardly awarded any prizes because only a couple people caught tagged bass and of those, just one or two actually kept the fish.

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On 4/21/2019 at 9:34 PM, jbsoonerfan said:

I too don't understand why it can't be that way. You could still do the same format, weigh/release and just count the biggest 5. Maybe it has to do with the score tracker or whatever, but I don't know why it wouldn't work. I like MLF/BPT way more at this point but I think it could work. Some guys "quit" fishing when they have a 40 lb lead, but IMO everyone would have to fish hard for all three periods with no letting up.

The 5 biggest format guys quit fishing as well.  They have an idea of what they need to catch each day, and once they get that they save those fish for another day.  T. Horton came back to the dock early and ordered pizza because he knew he had the tournament one.

 

I personally think the biggest thing BPT has done is figure out how to keep score live.  It's nice as a viewer to watch the coverage and know the standings.  Counting every fish keeps everyone in contention longer in the event vs. largest 5, where 1 big fish can completely change things.  

 

 

 

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On 4/21/2019 at 8:46 PM, TnRiver46 said:

I don't fish tournaments but I enjoy watching bass and flw. I can't believe that no one ever mentions or pushes for a combination of the two, catch weigh and release best 5 fish. Professionals being rewarded for catching one lb bass makes me change the channel every single time. Might as well watch pro ball players do layup drills 

The next BASS event is the Texas Bass Fest and they do exactly that.

They weigh all the fish only counting the largest 5.

 

I think they let them keep one fish in the livewell to show off at the weigh in

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On 4/23/2019 at 9:35 AM, Team9nine said:

The 25 boat tournaments kill more, no doubt 😉 Numerous surveys in our area show almost no harvest of bass, with upwards of 96% C&R now days. The 25 boat tournaments are there on the lake every weekend and often a day or two through the week. No doubt that accumulated pressure is killing more fish around here than the few recreational guys who accidentally catch one or two and keep them. They even ran a tag reward program here to figure out how many people were catching and keeping bass. End result, big failure - they hardly awarded any prizes because only a couple people caught tagged bass and of those, just one or two actually kept the fish.

That wasn't the question, and what do you base your "no doubt" answer on, fact or feelings?(maybe you just like to argue, or maybe you are being sarcastic) 

 

If a couple guys go out catch their limit and eat them, Thats 10 fish. (happens on Mille Lacs every day) But we have 25 boats weigh 5 fish =125 fish x 5% mortality = 6 fish. That is 2 guys having more affect on the population that 50 guys who all paid the same price for their license? See the point of the question was what has more affect on a population and as a renewable resource, don't we all have equal rights to the use?

 

I understand we have less affect up north, some of the water is still frozen... including Mille Lacs.

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1 hour ago, Hotfoot17 said:

That wasn't the question, and what do you base your "no doubt" answer on, fact or feelings?(maybe you just like to argue, or maybe you are being sarcastic) 

 

If a couple guys go out catch their limit and eat them, Thats 10 fish. (happens on Mille Lacs every day) But we have 25 boats weigh 5 fish =125 fish x 5% mortality = 6 fish. That is 2 guys having more affect on the population that 50 guys who all paid the same price for their license? See the point of the question was what has more affect on a population and as a renewable resource, don't we all have equal rights to the use?

 

I understand we have less affect up north, some of the water is still frozen... including Mille Lacs.

Yep, it is within their rights to take them out of the lake.

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1 hour ago, Hotfoot17 said:

That wasn't the question, and what do you base your "no doubt" answer on, fact or feelings?(maybe you just like to argue, or maybe you are being sarcastic) 

 

If a couple guys go out catch their limit and eat them, Thats 10 fish. (happens on Mille Lacs every day) But we have 25 boats weigh 5 fish =125 fish x 5% mortality = 6 fish. That is 2 guys having more affect on the population that 50 guys who all paid the same price for their license? See the point of the question was what has more affect on a population and as a renewable resource, don't we all have equal rights to the use?

 

I understand we have less affect up north, some of the water is still frozen... including Mille Lacs.

Your question/scenario isn’t reality where I live. Just using actual published statistics from DNR surveys done right here on my local reservoir. Surveyed and creel checked anglers for 6 months, both boat and bank anglers. C&R guys caught and released over 9,000 bass. Meat eaters harvested 187. That means unless you’re mortality rate, both immediate and delayed, isn’t under 2%, the C&R bass guys, including tournies, are killing more bass on my home lake than the guys who catch and keep. You’re numbers up there might be different.

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I like the MLF format.  The more I watched the other two tours, especially BASS, it convinced me that many of the anglers had no respect for the fish.  However I wouldn't be surprised if MLF changes things up a bit so they don't count all the bank runners.

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As a guy who runs local tournaments...the MLF format of catch/weigh/record/release with only the 5 biggest fish counting OR everything over a certain weight (say 2.5+lbs) counting, is the future of my events. I just don't quite know how to pull it off yet. My biggest hurdle is that I run mostly solo angler events, having a second person on board as an impartial observer/marshal/spotter/referee is far from practical and nearly impossible. These tournaments will have to be closed, and be invite only to anglers who have gained my trust. The prize money will have to be low, so the incentive/motivation to cheat will be lower, and the penalty for attempting to cheat and/or getting caught cheating will have to be so severe as to ruin anyone's reputation, and have serious legal ramifications to anyone who attempts it.

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2 hours ago, ww2farmer said:

As a guy who runs local tournaments...the MLF format of catch/weigh/record/release with only the 5 biggest fish counting OR everything over a certain weight (say 2.5+lbs) counting, is the future of my events. I just don't quite know how to pull it off yet.

Have you considered going to a length based scoring?  It works for kayak tournaments, using TourneyX app.  There has been a couple instances of cheating, but it's few and far between.  My only resistance is that I'm always thinking in mass, not length.  Both might be wrong, and we need a livewell that determines displacement in order to measure the fish, lol.

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