Hello everyone

I just got a dedicated high quality umbrella rig rod and since it’s rated for heavier lures I figured I’d finally add some larger swimbaits to the rotation. I’m in Michigan where you can definitely find 5 and 6 pound largemouths if you’re willing to work for them, but you find a lot more pike and there are musky in my local lakes and rivers too. I have intentionally avoided large baits for fear of losing them to those teeth until now. I figure my best bet is to throw them at isolated offshore cover where the larger bass will hangout and are less likely to also hold many pike but I assume that’s just hope. Anyone have a recommendation that doesn’t involve saving up money to replace the lures? Steel leaders are about the only thing I know of. Thanks!

13 minutes ago, Bucks Bass and Bourbon said:

 Anyone have a recommendation that doesn’t involve saving up money to replace the lures? Steel leaders are about the only thing I know of. Thanks!

 

I use steel leaders or tireable wire when I know pike and musky are around. Peace of mind and a lot better than losing a good lure at today's prices. I do not know of another answer other than heavy mono or braid. 

Tieable, COATED, wire like AFW Surflon. You can run it as a short, tie-in leader.

 

There are several grades but I believe the 7x7 Micro Supreme to be the gold standard for a tieable leader. Though the other grades (1x7, 1x19) may appeal to you.

 

There are those here who have used it for the exact same reason: pike/toothy fish biting off their expensive hardbaits. And, apparently, the Surflon does NOT affect the swimming motion whereas a traditional leader may.

 

Thanks! Can that be tied to 65 pound braid with an FG knot?

I use this rather effectively with a  uni to uni knot.

As for pike seasonal location in Michigan.

Early and late season where water temps in the shallows are less than 68 or so they will be there.

After it warms above that the bigger fish move deep.  Deeper than most bassheads fish anyway.

HOWEVER, the smaller pike and the ones that will still bite off baits, remain shallow all season, so you've got that to content with.

Good Luck.

A-Jay

 

Big risk, big reward. It's all part of the game if you want to fish that way. I would try throwing some cheaper swimbaits (S-Waver type) before going and investing in something like a Roman. 

100lb flour leaders work too

54 minutes ago, Bucks Bass and Bourbon said:

Thanks! Can that be tied to 65 pound braid with an FG knot?

I have no experience with anything that heavy, so I'll defer to someone who knows the answer.

 

Sorry! 

I use Seaguar Blue Label in 25 or 30 pound test when I am in known pike-infested waters.  I use about a 12 - 16 inch section of it above the lure.  I've used it for 3 whole seasons now and its greatly reduced the chances I lose lures.

 

Since its a fluoro material, you still need to check it for nicks and cuts, as any weak point could send your lure packing into the abyss forever.

I throw braid to Fluor leader on most of my stuff. I catch pike a lot and very large bowfin in southern Michigan. I have yet to loose a lure to the Fluro getting bitten off. Personally on my big glides and swimmers I run 50-65 lb braid to 20-30lb fluro.

The problem with adding any kind of wire leader is you are killing the action and more so the rate of fall for these baits when targeting bass. You are essentially setting up to target the toothy critters.

 

Just get some cheaper big baits like the Bass Pro shops swerve and others and fish them with 20-25# fluoro leaders.

I found a source that tied up single strand titanium wire in weights from 20lb up to 120lb. The knots were covered with a type of black plastic shrink wrap so you didn't have any sharp edges exposed with a quality swivel & cross lock snap. They were light enough that you could use them with jerk baits without affecting the action. 

4 hours ago, JediAmoeba said:

The problem with adding any kind of wire leader is you are killing the action and more so the rate of fall for these baits when targeting bass. You are essentially setting up to target the toothy critters.

 

I generally agree.  In some cases, it may not matter, in others, it does.  Where the water is murkier and you're using a faster presentation, it seems irrelevant.

 

And let's face it.  In many locales, at least around where I am, you can't avoid northern pike regardless of what your presentation is.  Especially the smaller ones that @A-Jay is referring to that are a bother almost all season long.

 

Thanks for all the great responses. I think I’ll give the Surflon a try and if nothing else just swing away with a 20 or 30 pound fluoro leader. There’s no guarantee so I maybe I’ll give some cheaper swim baits a try before I toss the brand new Bacca Burrito that just got delivered out there. Thanks again guys!

2 hours ago, Bucks Bass and Bourbon said:

Thanks for all the great responses. I think I’ll give the Surflon a try and if nothing else just swing away with a 20 or 30 pound fluoro leader. There’s no guarantee so I maybe I’ll give some cheaper swim baits a try before I toss the brand new Bacca Burrito that just got delivered out there. Thanks again guys!

Please update this thread after your Surflon experience! 

6 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

I generally agree.  In some cases, it may not matter, in others, it does.  Where the water is murkier and you're using a faster presentation, it seems irrelevant.

 

And let's face it.  In many locales, at least around where I am, you can't avoid northern pike regardless of what your presentation is.  Especially the smaller ones that @A-Jay is referring to that are a bother almost all season long.

 

It just wouldn't work the way I mostly fish swimbaits - very slow, suspended. Sinking about a foot every 5 seconds or more. 

I live in wisconsin and throw  hard swimbaits on 20lb mono. I don’t add any leaders I tie directly to the lure or use a decoy snap. I haven’t lost a lure to a pike or Muskie yet.  

My limited experience using swimbaits for musky the fish grabs the lure like a dog bone sideways rarely getting the line in it’s toothy mouth,

Pike however miss big lures as much as 3’ in front of the lure with a jerk or stop and go retrieve bitting off the lure. If the lure floats no problem, sinks it’s gone. If the Pike strikes the lure no problem bitting the lure off.

Wire leader if you use a jerk or stop & go retrieve, not needed with steady retrieve.

Tom 

1 hour ago, WRB said:

 

Wire leader if you use a jerk or stop & go retrieve, not needed with steady retrieve.

Tom 

That has not been my experience here and I've had to contend with these hammer handles my whole life.

 

It REALLY depends where they get hooked. Hook them in the tip of the mouth, and I rarely have issues. But hook them further down and to the side and they pretty much have all their teeth available to slash the line while head shaking. It's their long mouth and random hook set area that's problematic for the reasons you point to (they can miss wildly, even on straight retrieves). I've even seen these fish eject themselves from the water (like Air Jaws) when chasing a straight retrieve.

 

Here's an extreme example. Long nosed gar though. But I hooked this guy right on the tip of the mouth. Now imagine much further down, near the crook of the mouth. One head shake and its over. I see the same thing with Northern Pike.

 

And man, do I ever get bit off from Bowfin as well! 

 

On 3/28/2024 at 7:07 AM, A-Jay said:

I use this rather effectively with a  uni to uni knot.

I use this too thanks to A Jay, it works great. 

On 3/28/2024 at 7:00 AM, Bucks Bass and Bourbon said:

Thanks! Can that be tied to 65 pound braid with an FG knot?

Modified alberto is what I use with tieable leader.  FG needs to bite into the leader coating to work as well as it does, I don't trust it with metal.  I've only lost one swimbait to a northern in 6 years, it was a gantarel fully pinned flat in her mouth.  I had forgotten my net and had hands on her when her last boat thrashing snapped my line.  She was a definite double digit and at least 40".  Felt terrible for days that I left her in that condition and lost my $25 mostly because having a net wouldn't have led to that outcome.  My bigger problem is all the jigs I lose to northerns.  The tieable leader is a grass magnet and limits all my bites, still looking for a best option other than luck and 20lb mono as a leader.

 

scott

Thanks again for all the responses!