First off, fish don't think or reason - everything they do is a trade-off between instinct and fear.   Gary Borger said it best - big fish aren't smart, big fish are cowards.  

This is reinforced in the gene pool, because inquisitive fish become dinner for larger fish, birds, etc.  

Heavily hit fish will feed on cycle driven by fear - when another fish eats, then competition-for-food instinct takes over.  

 

@Catt is correct about there's enough natural fiber drifting in all waters.  

Even with trout, vision is not related to tippet size, but tippet limpness - how your fly behaves in the current compared to the natural food.  

 

Many times, I've stood with a fly rod over big redfish and black drum with their backs sticking above 6 inches of water - they don't know you from a bird in a funny hat.  If your presentation is stealthy, you get a lot of chances while your heart is skipping beats - when your presentation looks like natural food, they eat it.  

Same thing is true sight-fishing big bass - lead their patrol so your cast doesn't spook them, and your fly is in the right place when they arrive.  

I see all sorts of different fish... bluegill, baby bass, shad, shiners, etc that will come to check out clear 4lb mono line...not the bait; they very clearly see the line, even in dirty water.   I have convinced myself that trying to make my line less visible is not close to being worth my efforts.  I am far more concerned with whether I can see the line.

Think about it..

What do bass have to compare what fishing line is?
Do they determine that it doesn’t belong there so it’ll just move on?
Do they rationalize what it is and its intended purpose, slow down and turn away?   

The answer is nothing in its world is as thin as fishing line

So as @Catt asks…

“what do they think it is?
My answer is they have no idea and don’t care, as they look at what’s at the end of it. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike

There was a study done many years ago talking about the sound that mono made as it came thru the water. It was years ago, but the jest of it was that 10 pound and below made the least amount of noise and above 10 made the most. Whether that matters or not I can not say..

There are certain instances that I will use #80 original Power Pro braid which is the equivalent of 18# mono. 
I wonder what that sounds like??

 

 

 

 

Mike

7 hours ago, Catt said:

I think bass can see our line but that's not my question. My question is what do they think it is?

I cannot read the mind of a fish.  I’ve haven’t seen any evidence that they a capable of pondering the nature of anything.  They more likely respond to things in their environment based on instinct and past experiences.   There is very strong scientific evidence that bass learn to avoid lures.  There is very strong scientific evidence that some bass are harder to catch than others.  Are bass line shy?   I think a more realistic question to ask is are some bass line shy.  I don’t think we can say with certainty that no bass are line shy.  My thinking is it’s not a big problem if it ever is a problem.  Very few fishing lures look remotely natural.  Hooks are usually more visible than line and we don’t worry about hooks.  Still I try to reduce the visibility of my line when I can but I’m not obsessed with it.

Line color, diameter, type, and invisibility is a variable I can control, so I'm going to maintain my control over it.  Regardless of whether the fish can see it and gets spooked or not. There are enough variables out there I cannot control already.  No reason to add another one to that list.

Reading water and thinking like fish has always been innate for me - not a huge accomplishment, since fish IQ ranges from 6 (trout) to 12 (carp).  

One hot summer night off a lighted Lake LBJ tee-pier, fishing Daiwa Minicast and 1/16 oz Panther Martin, I cast out as far as I could, stripped some extra line, leaned the rod and sat down until everything sank to the sandy bottom.  

Stand up, slow retrieve, I caught a fish every 3rd cast and filleted 17 white bass when I got up the next morning. 

Coming from the cooler, deeper lake, the fish couldn't breathe well in the hot shallower cove, made a run along the bottom, turned up to the light to feed, and ran back out.  

My presentation exactly followed that route.  How I figured this out - could see the flash of feeding fish turning in the light.  

I had an audience lining the pier, and I was the only one catching fish.  

(we had a fish fry and invited all the neighbors in the park -Mom's hush puppies were epic)

@bulldog1935 I was fortunate enough to be around some of the Legends of our sport. I believe I learned more about fishing from a WWII freind of my Dad's. He was a world renowned flyfisher man & won multiple awards for  the flies he tied. 

One of my favorite observations was in Rosevelt Rhodes Puerto Rico. After maintaining Aircraft, I was down on the moorings (WW2 built) and it was just dark, there was light but relatively dim, as I drank a screwdriver I watched a huge ball of shrimp move in, in essence they were trapped, then Tarpon appeared easily 50 pounders, and began a feeding frenzy.. 

 

Some of us (a very few) had brought rods n reels as well as deep fryers, woks etc. our schedules were typically 2 days on 2 days off, then we would fish for snapper and yellow tail etc then fish fry. This was during the day. 
 

Then the Tarpon observations happened, I asked my buddy you have anything that looks like a shrimp? He laughed and said hell no, I had some grubs in chartreuse and jig heads and said let’s try! So we did, I stuck one and fought him for maybe a minute and broke off.. he caught a Mauri eel which was pretty freaking cool but we fished that place for 5 nights, every night was the same, tarpon pushing in shrimp, occasionally we would stick a Tarpon but only to break off. Nonetheless we were and did have a complete blast with it. 
We caught several hundred yellow tail, red snapper along with juvenile Barracuda. Barracuda is actually very tasty. I went there a dozen times and always enjoyed the fishing..

@alonerankin2...and?!?!? You left out most important detail: What color line does tarpon break?

5 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

@alonerankin2...and?!?!? You left out most important detail: What color line does tarpon break?

Oops. Stren 16# clear/blue 🤪

Years ago I spooled on the Stren clear blue and the Stren golden line.  These days I use Big Game green most of the time.  I've had fish sit and stare at all three colors, but this seems to mostly in water that sees a lot of fishing pressure.

On 8/30/2024 at 8:54 AM, Mike L said:

There are certain instances that I will use #80 original Power Pro braid which is the equivalent of 18# mono. 
I wonder what that sounds like??

 

 

 

 

Mike

A chainsaw

1 hour ago, OHBuckets said:

A chainsaw

Or a 3 piece band!

Either way I have no complaints 

 

 

 

 

Mike

On 8/29/2024 at 7:49 AM, gimruis said:

Take a close look at virtually every single pro bass angler's setups.

 

Almost all of them are using some kind of main braided line attached to a fluorocarbon leader, with just a few exceptions.

 

Only the individual angler can decide if fish are "line shy" and whether that affects the number of bites they get in any giving outing and in any given conditions, but if pro anglers are all doing it with their livelihood on the line...well, you get the point.  That alone was enough to persuade me, especially if the water is on the clear side.

 

Keep in mind most of the fish they seek are highly pressured too.  YMMV

On spinning rods I would agree you see a lot of braid to leader. I don't see it much on bait casting unless it's on a top water rod or down in Florida.

2 hours ago, rangerjockey said:

On spinning rods I would agree you see a lot of braid to leader. I don't see it much on bait casting unless it's on a top water rod or down in Florida.

I agree, if it’s a faster more aggressive presentation then it may not make as much of a difference since the fish has to make a split decision.