Florida Strian Bass (Very hard to catch)

[RoLo]

There are pure Florida strain bass in many locations of this country. However, given time and recruitment, in not a lot of time the intergrade, (F1) will outnumber the pure Florida strain. In Florida the delineation is relatively clear and follows what is know as the weather line. This line runs just south of Melbourne, Florida west to Tampa. Stick Marsh/Farm 13 sits just south of that line.

I've always based the line of demarcation on lakes rather than cities, which from all

appearances runs from Lake Tarpon near the Gulf coast to Cypress Lake

in the Kissimmee Chain. George and I are on the same page, because if cities were used,

the Florida-strain line would run from Tarpon Springs to Melbourne.

Lake Tarpon has produced many behemoths, in addition to the former uncertified

Florida bass record weighing 19 lbs even.

With respect to bass longevity, I'm afraid George and I part company.

Like most fish and animals, the greatest number of bass die within their first year of life.

Among the precious few Florida-strain bass surpassing the age of 8, about forty percent

are expected to die within 1 year and 90% will be dead within 2 years (10 years old).

To be sure, there's the occasional bass that reaches 12 years of age, which is popularly

accepted as the age-ceiling for pure Florida-strain bass.

Northern-strain bass live significantly longer than Florida-strain bass.

The age ceiling for northern-strain bass is about 16 years, or about 33% longer

than Florida-strain bass. There is more than one account of a northern bass

living longer than 20 years. I also read about a ~30-year old northern-strain bass

in the In-Fisherman magazine, but don't recall the details.

Back On Topic

As Fish Chris stated and few would disagree, northern-strain bass are more aggressive

than Florida-strain bass. I've been fortunate in having fished extensively for bass

in Florida, Georgia, New Jersey and Canada. Jersey bass are much smaller,

but practically jump in the boat with you. In my experience at least,

Florida-strain bass are clearly the least aggressive.

Roger

[George Welcome]

Roger,

Life span is not something that is George's opinion, but rather published information from various DNR's and fish and game departments.

The popular age may be 12, but Florida's fish and game put it at 13+-. The oldest bass from Florida whose age has been determined by fisheries biologists was 16 year of age. A typical 10 pound Florida strain is 10 years old. Unless they make a major weight gain immediately how do you account for the large numbers of bass caught that weigh considerably more?

Minnesota DNR directly addresses life span of northern strain: Lifespan to 13 years.

The reality is, as long as the fish got big, it really doesn't matter its age.

[Hale]

Shiner presentation can be farily easy when starting out...as long as you start out basic. I would say use a 3/0 hook and put the hook through its back behind the dorsal fin. Use a strike indicator run about 3' above the bait.

Hooking it in this way allows the shiner to run about somewhat freely, which makes for good excitement when being hunted down by a bass. That shiner will get frantic and may even come out of the water.

Try to leave it in a good area and make casting minimal. Hooking it in the back like this will usually kill the shiner after a few casts. I would suggest setting up two rods in this manner and run both at the same time. Until you get a little more effecient at it I wouldnt run more than two lines at a time. Trust me, it can be chaos at times (multiple fish on, tangles, etc).

You can also hook it through the bottom lip and come up through one of the nostrils. Someone on here may be able to give a good reason to hook it like that, I personally dont see one. It seems to cause the shiner to swim about in a way that is unnatural.

One more tip: You can clip part of its tail to make it swin erratically, a shiner swimming like this is a bass aphrodisiac.

[Guest the_muddy_man]

Especially through the ice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

[gjones2397]

Shiner presentation can be farily easy when starting out...as long as you start out basic. I would say use a 3/0 hook and put the hook through its back behind the dorsal fin. Use a strike indicator run about 3' above the bait.

Hooking it in this way allows the shiner to run about somewhat freely, which makes for good excitement when being hunted down by a bass. That shiner will get frantic and may even come out of the water.

Try to leave it in a good area and make casting minimal. Hooking it in the back like this will usually kill the shiner after a few casts. I would suggest setting up two rods in this manner and run both at the same time. Until you get a little more effecient at it I wouldnt run more than two lines at a time. Trust me, it can be chaos at times (multiple fish on, tangles, etc).

You can also hook it through the bottom lip and come up through one of the nostrils. Someone on here may be able to give a good reason to hook it like that, I personally dont see one. It seems to cause the shiner to swim about in a way that is unnatural.

One more tip: You can clip part of its tail to make it swin erratically, a shiner swimming like this is a bass aphrodisiac.

Thanks Hale.

I am going to go fishing this weekend at the pond/lake that is stocked with the Florida strain bass. I am going to attempt to use some shiners. I have no experience using live bait in bass fishing, so all the tips are helpful. I will make a post again on Monday to give an update on whether or not the live bait has helped me catch more Florida bass in this particular lake. And I know that I can't make a decision on one weekend.

[George Welcome]

Hook to use - small shiner: 3/0 Kahle hook - medium shiner: 4/0 Kahle hook - large shiner: 5/0 Kahle hook. Kahle hooks are shiner hooks.

Rod: MH - H, 7.0 - Line: anticipating possible fish over 5 pounds: 14-20#

Back hooked in front of dorsal fin: (don't go too deep) shiner will swim forward and up working the surface - behind the dorsal fin: the shiner will rise quicker. In front of the anal fin: the shiner will swim forward and down. Through the lower lip and out one of the nostril places the hook where the fish will take the shiner: (head first) Lip/nostril is the most damaging to the shiner, but puts the hook in the right place for quick hits. Also lip/nostril is used if trolling the shiner.

With or without a float: With if you have a lot of cover that the shiner could get caught up in - without, (free lined) if you have open water. If you have deep water try C-rigging the shiner. Experimentation pays off in this area.

Setting the hook: This is a timing issue that takes some experience to get right: you must have an absolute straight line to the shiner/bass. If not you will hit air as the bass will drop the shiner in a heartbeat. If float fishing let the bass take the float down and be swimming off before setting hook. If free lining let the bass get going with the shiner and when you sense straight line to the bass, hammer it.

Good luck!

[gjones2397]

George -

Great informaiton. That is just what I needed. Thank you so much. ;D

[Keithscatch]

I don't know where this information keeps coming from but everytime I do a google search on the age of bass I continually run into statements like this one:

"On the other hand, northern bassthe native bass in most statesrace each other to smash lures. Unfortunately, northern bass don't live as long as Florida bass and seldom reach more than 8 pounds."

Or here is another one from the same article:

"For years, researchers and southern fishing guides have known that Florida bass don't bite aggressively after they're about 3 years old. Researchers call this becoming "bait-shy," and it's the reason most Florida guides use live shiner minnows when they take their clients fishing for trophy largemouths.

"We knew that after age 3 Florida bass became increasingly difficult to catch with artificial baits. But we didn't realize it would be such a serious problem in private ponds," says Smith."

Both of these comments come from this site: http://www.progressivefarmer.com/farmer/outdoor/article/0,24672,1224142,00.html

An FWC biologist told me they have seen a 16 year old Florida bass. That is the oldest they have seen. So if other states have seen older northern strain bass then perhaps that is true that northerns live longer. This FWC biologist told me that these subspecies do better in the areas of the country that they are native too. A Florida bass doesn't do as well in places it is not native too just like a northern strain doesn't do as well down here in Florida.

Also, I know that George can't be advocating that Florida bass bite just as well after a cold front moves through as they do before one. If so, this flies in the face of everything I have ever heard from biologists, guides, fishermen, and my own experience which I suppose I trust more then anything else. Do fish bite during or after a cold front? Sure they do. Are they as aggressive and as easily fooled? Not on your life.

I can't imagine using the 2000 Toho results that Shaw Grigsby won as any indicator of post frontal fishing success. January on Lake Toho is right in the midst of spawning time. So fish would not be eating a lure to eat they would be mouthing a lure to remove it from their bed. Which more then not is the cause of the high weights for that tournament.

If someone has well documented proof that Northern bass live longer then Florida bass then please show a link or two that shows this.

Here is an interesting article: http://digital.library.okstate.edu/oas/oas_htm_files/v59/p47_50nf.html

Also, I agree with this statement by Roger:

As Fish Chris stated and few would disagree, northern-strain bass are more aggressive than Florida-strain bass.

I base this on my own personal experience fishing here in Florida and in Texas. But thrn again I have never had a 100 fish day either   So experiences change with time. For now though, I would stand by this assessment.

Thanks.

[George Welcome]

"Researchers call this becoming "bait-shy," and it's the reason most Florida guides use live shiner minnows when they take their clients fishing for trophy largemouths.

"We knew that after age 3 Florida bass became increasingly difficult to catch with artificial baits. But we didn't realize it would be such a serious problem in private ponds," says Smith."

Most Florida guides that recommend only shiners as a way to catch Florida trophy bass do so for several reasons, which in most cases has nothing to do with catching trophy largemouths. To start you down the right road to discovery, they also recommend shiners, (and in most cases only take clients using shiners) if you want to catch fish. Shiners have their place, but you need to look at my pages if you thing that it takes them to catch trophy bass.

I love excerpting to make a point: Smith goes on to talk about his developement of "tiger bass". There are two strains of Largemouth Bass, and Mr. Smith's tiger bass isn't one of them. If you wish to believe that he has developed a new strain, that's your perogative. If you wish to think his quoted statements have nothing to do with a sales pitch, again that's your perogative.

"my own experience which I suppose I trust more then anything else." If you wish to believe that your experiences are the end all to bass fishing that is also your perogative. I make it a point to try to learn something from every client that I take out, and most often I am successful. Having fished for these critters I have found there are no hard and fast rules to catching, but I have found that most rules for not catching, are in most cases, nothing more than excuses for not being on fish.

Very few biologists, (not counting this one), are fishermen, so they really don't have the vaguest idea what fish bite like after a frontal passage. Those that are fishermen most often are busy doing other things when most cold fronts pass this way. Their job is fishery managment and fishery research so the information they give out is second hand and received by fishermen.

A hard cold frontal passage in Florida causes most fishermen to stay home. Not because the fish aren't biting, but because it is downright uncomfortable out there. Winds, cold air, and rain associated with these frontal passages just aren't pleasant fishing conditions. However, for those that venture forth and find the fish, the rewards are there.

 

I could bore you silly with photos of cold frontal and post frontal bass. The key is to find the fish. If you do that you will catch, if you don't you can always blame the frontal passage. I am not saying that weather cannot affect the fishing because it can. It makes finding the fish more difficult. Being on a lake in excess of 320 days a year gives me a distinct advantage on that score, but even I will say on some days: darn it was that stupid cold front.

Whether it be short or long, as long as the life span is long enough to create another record for any state, then they have lived long enough. Be that as it may, Florida GFC calls the southern span as 13+-, and Wisconsin calls the northern span 13+-. Sounds good enough for my book.

[Keithscatch]

I love excerpting to make a point:

You mean like this one:

"my own experience which I suppose I trust more then anything else."

Then to go on and say this:

If you wish to believe that your experiences are the end all to bass fishing that is also your perogative.

Seems to me that you are guilty of excerpting yourself.

Well, I never said that my own experiences are the end all to bass fishing knowledge. Friends that know me know I would never suggest such a thing. My point was this: I trust other people's opinions allot especially if they are experts in their field such as yourself. So with that in mind I try to apply the information that I have learned. When I hear from other experts that tell me that fish bury themselves in hydrilla during cold fronts or suspend in open water or just do not bite very well, I have no reason to argue with them. So I go and apply my own experience to the equation and if after several years of fishing frontal passages and weather changes I see that this is in fact true then in my opinion the matter is settled. I have opinion from experts and my own experience telling me the same things. For those of us who are not able to fish 300+ days we are limited to say 50 days or so on the water. Believe me it takes a whole heck of allot to keep me off the water on a weekend. So I have spent my fair share of cold frontal type days fishing. Even broke ice off of my eye guides before.

Now, I can also post picture after picture up of nice bass with me wearing a coat. Heck I used to live in Texas  and it gets allot colder there then it does here in S.Central Florida. In fact, George, the majority of my biggest fish have come from cold weather days with sunny blue bird skies. However, like I said before their is no way anyone can say with a straight face that bass are just as aggressive and bite just as easily after a cold northerner has just blown through as they were in the summer or fall. That all you have to do is find where they went. Your point seems to suggest that bass are not affected by sudden weather changes and eat just as much as they do before, during, and after the storm or cold fronts. This is what I am saying is just silly to me.

So we will just have to disagree on this one.

[RoLo]

In my post above, I stated that northern-strain bass live about 33% longer

than Florida-strain bass. Like most things I write, this is not my opinion,

but an average I arrived at using several sources (many years ago).

In any case, I've noticed that the In-Fisherman suggests that the northern-strain

lives about 50% longer than the Florida-strain, which I feel is on the high-end of reality.

Roger

[bitman]

We have them in Lake Alan Henry near Lubbock TX and they are pretty tough to catch, at least for me  Although you will catrch a large fish ever once and a while.  But the number of fish you catch in a day are few.  I do know alot of folks catch bass and some bigger ones on minners out of the crappie house, Im guessing the fish know where the easy meals are, LOL

DannyG

They also have it stocked with Smallies and Spots, Ive never caught even one of either so they are very hard to catch

[tennsopher]

George Welcome just told you more about shiner fishing in a few short paragraphs than most people know.Well worth paying attention to no matter the weather.Kudos George!

[gjones2397]

I went fishing in the private lake that is stocked with the Florida strain bass. This is the lake that I was referring to when I started this post. I fished with some large minnows (varied between 2 - 5 inches) that I caught from another pond using a casting net.

Well........I was surprised. Although I didn't have long to stay and fish, I caught several fish. I caught several bass in one area. Since I don't have a lot of experience with fishing with shiners or minnows, I tried hooking the minnow a couple of different ways. I hooked behind the dorsal fin and also on some occassions I hooked behind the anal fin. I seemed to get more action when I hooked the bait behind the anal fin and the bait seemed to live longer.

Although I did catch several fish in a short period of time, I didn't catch any big ones.

I need to fish the lake a few more times before I change my opinion on how hard Florida strain bass are to catch. If future fishing trips at this lake go like the one I had today, I have a feeling that the outcome will be that Florida strain are much harder to catch on ARTIFICIAL lures. While I was catching the bass, I also had another reel with a spinner bait and I was throwing it about the same places that I was catching the fish with the live bait, and didn't even get a bite.

Although I did catch fish, I will have to get use to fishing with minnows or shiners. It almost feels like I am fishing for catfish. As a matter of fact, I caught 3 or 4 catfish while I was fishing. I don't know what I can do differently to prevent catching catfish :-/. And something happened that was really funny, I caught a turtle. The turtle was hanging on to my minnow, I didn't even have the hook in him. I pulled the minnow and turtle completely out of the water and eventually the minnow came loose from the hook.

Anyways, thanks to everyone that posted and suggested using live bait, it worked. But, the only thing that I don't like is that it feels like I am catfishing or bream fishing, it is too slow. I am so use to fishing artificial and a lot of action. Does anyone have any more suggestions on how the best way to hook or present a minnow or shiner. Would I have more success using a bobber, rather than "tight lining"?

[noway]

how long have you been fishing in this lake?

I have been fishing the lake for about 3 or 4 years. And the lake has always been hard to catch fish.

Someone replied an didn't know where I lived. I live in Northern Mississippi.

I have seen several suggestions to use shiners. I will have to read up on a good presentation for shiners. I have little or no experience with live bait.

I am new to this forum and I have learned so much within this first day of reading posts and replies. There is such a difference in opinions about bass fishing across the readers of these forums. Everyone has a differenct view and brings something unique to the table.

Good info here.

http://www.fishin.com/articles/BassCoach/wildshiners.htm

[GAMEOVER]

I tell you what, that sounds like crankbait heaven to me. Its a proven fact that Bass expecially larger ones will eat the forage in its home body of water. Match the forage when getting a good crankbait like the Rapala DT w/ Sure Set hooks or your favorite (whichever you prefer) and do some hardcore pattern fishing. Some people dont believe crankbaits will catch big Bass but let me tell you, I know for a fact, that they do. Also if they are really that hard for everyone to catch I suggest you get something like a swimbait from http://www.mattlures.com. Id deffinatly take fishing a place like that where you dont get many bass for days but when you do they are big rather than a pond or lake taken over by smaller Bass.

Trust me on this one to, get an all black jointed Jitterbug and fish it with a slower then faster retrieve. Dont give up on it, fish it every chance you get when the water is calm rather it be a week or a month. Show me pics of that hawg.

BTW, ive also heard Florida is one of the hardest states to "pattern fish" in. I have no idea why even David Fritts mentioned something about it but that doesnt mean it wont work.

If you have two rods try rigging a Fat Ika in watermellon seed on one and throwing it out there then continue on pattern fishing.

[mudcatwilly]

In CA, we have a mix of Northern and Florida Strain.  In the CA Delta, they are mostly the northern variety and I have seen them blow up some topwater lures like it was their last meal.  These fish also get very big.

[Catt]

Try putting some shiners out there and see what happens.

There are no facts when it comes to bass. As quickly as you state one, someone will come along and show you how wrong you are. Bass don't live by rules other than the ever changing ones that they make up.

Fishermen live by facts and rules, whether they be made up by someone else or by themselves. I so disagree with the tougher to catch theory. I do agree that they are more difficult to hook until you get it through your head that you need to set the hook on anything that feels different. There is no waiting or counting with Florida strain bass.

Weather affects both strains of bass and it is real handy to be able to blame it when we aren't catching. The moon was too full, the sun too high, the barometer too low, the barometer too high. Most often however, the fish weren't there, or the bait chosen was wrong.

Your choice: the fish aren't there, or the bait you are using was wrong for the moment. Use some wild shiners and you will find out if the fish are there.

Extremely will put

Add this to it

People often respond to failure and frustration by over-complicating theory and technique. As much as it helps our egos to regard a difficult task as complex, this type of thinking is often the biggest obstacle between you and fishing success.

[KingBass69]

On 9/25/2006 at 3:27 PM, JiggaMan512 said:

First off, welcome to the forum. Second, im not sure that "Florida Bass" get bigger or are harder to catch, that may just be a myth. i WILL suggest to try some live bait though, if your not against it.

Florida strain bass absolutely get bigger and get bigger quicker than northern strain bass.   That’s why the share lunker program in Texas is working so well. They take the dna from those double digit Florida strain bass to produce genetically perfect bass.   Definitely not a myth 

[woolleyfooley]

On 9/26/2006 at 9:59 PM, George Welcome said:

There are pure Florida strain bass in many locations of this country. However, given time and recruitment, in not a lot of time the intergrade, (F1) will outnumber the pure Florida strain. In Florida the delineation is relatively clear and follows what is know as the weather line. This line runs just south of Melbourne, Florida west to Tampa. Stick Marsh/Farm 13 sits just south of that line.

Jan. 2000- Shaw Grigsby wins Toho with 53-11. This was on a hard cold front with winds in the 40's.

Think this was a cold hard front period.

Cold front accompanied by high winds.

Another one of those cold front windy days.

Fronts affect us far more than they do the fish - weather in general affects us more than the fish. If you think that weather has adverse affects of Florida strain bass than you already have two strikes against you and are quickly headed for the third strike and out.

@George Welcome

 

I live in southwest Florida. I’m curious of what type of bass live here? I assume strictly Florida strain given this is south Florida?

[softwateronly]

@woolleyfooley this thread is over 18 years old, the poster George Welcome has last logged in under that name in 2017.  From what I understand, you should have pure florida strain bass in your location.  To be absolutely certain, check with who manages your water or pay for a test.

 

Here's a recent discussion from the summer that will have respondents....

 

 

scott