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Muad Dib

Why am i losing fish on a strike king red eye shad rattle trap?

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Hey fellas landed one fish about 2 lbs on a red eye shad 1/2oz. now i was ripping this lure through thick and pain in the arse cabbage and thick clumps of milfoil. every cast im cleaning stuff off. next cast i hook into a fish about 3 -4lbs and its on for 5 seconds then its off! no idea why. and it wasnt through the vegetable stuffit was in clean open water. 20 minutes later lost another 4lber! after it was on for a few seconds and a headshake under the water. Then i lose ANOTHER fish about 3 lbs. in clean open water. i almost broke my rod. i would have thought even if they swiped at it theyd catch a hook deep and i couldnt sweep my road any more. i need help before i break all my rods out of rage

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Check the sharpness of your hooks. I was having trouble with a Spinnerbait a few weeks ago,and lost at least 6 fish. Later on I discovered my trailer hook was VERY dull. Not sure if that was the whole reason,but it sure didnt help the situation.

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2 questions:

Is the rod your using too stiff?

A more flexible rod blank can allow the fish to load up better.

Try changing colors???

Sometimes this can be the difference between swipes and chokes.

Nonetheless these things tend to happen sometimes with cranks of any kind,especially lipless. It can totally depend on just how the fish are biting that day.

I don't think their is anything wrong with the red eye.Those baits are killer,especially ripped out of grass.

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im using a 7ft mh bionic blade. its not the best crank rod but ill check the hooks it was bran new and maybe look at some other color choics. thanks

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That rod is a little too fast for fishing traps. Don't get me wrong I used to fish two bionic blades exclusively, but I always had similar problems. Fish on then off multiple times in one outing and I decided to dedicate that rod to just plastics. It may be worth your while to get a BPS crankin stick for traps and other cranks. Good luck.

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That's fishing, it happens, don't read anymore into. There is not a person alive that has landed every hooked fish.

Keep the pressure on them, it may not be the equipment, it may be you.

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That's fishing, it happens, don't read anymore into. There is not a person alive that has landed every hooked fish.

Keep the pressure on them, it may not be the equipment, it may be you.

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Unfortunately it's part of fishing with that type of lure. It has the weight needed that the fish can use to dislodge it and it happens a lot. You can increase your hookup ratio by using a different rod, changing out the hooks after a day of fishing. Hooks can become dull from just hooking fish or draging the lure into rocks, stumps, and many other things. Keep the hooks honed up and it will help some, but it's a fact of life.

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The Red Eye Shad is a great bait out of the box!  My suggestion is to check the sharpness of the hooks after fishing it for a while, especially after hooking up a few time whether it be fish or veg, or logs.  Then I would suggest to have one of the red eye shads dedicated for open water searching and replace the back treble with a step or two larger treble hook and experiment with red or dressed trebles.   The larger hook will increase the hook up ratio in open waters a bit, I do it to alot of my crank baits.  The dressed trebles often give any bait a different look that might trigger better strike out of the fish.  Give it a try, and I hope it helps out.  

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Use a moderate action rod, easy, sweeping hooksets, and play the fish with merely constant pressure - no skiing the fish in to the boat.  That said, you'll lose fish with vibration baits - a lot of bait, little sticky hooks - it happened to me a couple of weeks ago.  Hadn't lost any fish the whole day fishing Aruku Shads and LVRs, lost a decent fish that just came unbottoned.  I can't really think of anything I'd have done differently.

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Suggestions:

Change hooks to sharper ones.

Are you using a rod designed for cranking?

Are you using mono?  Mono is for treble hook baits.

17 pound test as a max?

5:1 ratio reel?

Sweeping rod to left or right when setting hook?

I would think by changing hooks to sharper models you will improve your hookup ratio.

We need some pics, too, when you start catching those monsters.  :o

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ya i hear that felt like my heart just dropped outa my chest every time!!! im checking the hooks and looking at a new rod right now. couldnt think id do anything else differently o well.

t

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That rod is a little too fast for fishing traps. Don't get me wrong I used to fish two bionic blades exclusively, but I always had similar problems. Fish on then off multiple times in one outing and I decided to dedicate that rod to just plastics. It may be worth your while to get a BPS crankin stick for traps and other cranks. Good luck.

i agree. believe it or not my fav. lipless rod is a cheaper falcon original. gives the fish a chance to sink both trebles in it. for the longest time i used a 7' cherrywood that gave the fish plenty of time to catch the second treble.

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I had the same problem with a Strike King 1xs crankbait and the lure was about a year old and had 5-6 fish get off in one morning outing. I changed out the hooks and also purchased a couple more of the lures.  I changed the rear trebles on all of them with 1 white dressed treble, a red dressed treble and and also added red and white suresets to 2 other lures.

Today the sureset red treble on the same lure caught me my personal best of 3lbs.

I use a Berkley Amp rod 7 ft rod with 6lb P-Line CXX Crystal Blue

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I don't think the problem is the rod. You have that part of the set up right but are missing two key parts for my style of lipless crank fishing. You need heavy enough line to bring the fish to the boat with authority and a big enough hook to hold the fish while doing this.

For me soft forgiving rods and tiny hooks = lost fish since you are asking the rod to hold the fish and praying that the rod does it's job and keeps the tiny hooks that are to small to start with to hold. With traps I prefer to take the fight to the fish instead of letting the fish do all the fighting while I watch and pray the fish stays on powerless to do anything with wimpy equipment.

I can see no good reason to have small hooks on a trap. Put a size one or two Owner Stinger 2x strong hook on the front hanger and leave the rear hook off.  When the fish hits start reeling and don't stop or try to play the fish. If the fish starts to jump then reel even faster and use the back bone and fast tip of the rod to keep it from jumping. If the fish gets his head up I ski him into the boat so fast with his mouth open catching water that it can't shake it's head.

Since changing the way I fish most larger crankbaits to this style I lose very few fish compared to how many I lost in the past. Most of the time I use 50lb braid or heavier fluro and my 7'6" flipping stick. This set up will clear itself better in weeds also.

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well im using 12lb yozuri hybrid and that stuff is pretty strong. if i did change a hook on the back lets say one size would that change the action to a certain degree?

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well im using 12lb yozuri hybrid and that stuff is pretty strong. if i did change a hook on the back lets say one size would that change the action to a certain degree?

IMO the hooks on the red eye shad are big enough.

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I don't think the problem is the rod. You have that part of the set up right but are missing two key parts for my style of lipless crank fishing. You need heavy enough line to bring the fish to the boat with authority and a big enough hook to hold the fish while doing this.

For me soft forgiving rods and tiny hooks = lost fish since you are asking the rod to hold the fish and praying that the rod does it's job and keeps the tiny hooks that are to small to start with to hold. With traps I prefer to take the fight to the fish instead of letting the fish do all the fighting while I watch and pray the fish stays on powerless to do anything with wimpy equipment.

I can see no good reason to have small hooks on a trap. Put a size one or two Owner Stinger 2x strong hook on the front hanger and leave the rear hook off. When the fish hits start reeling and don't stop or try to play the fish. If the fish starts to jump then reel even faster and use the back bone and fast tip of the rod to keep it from jumping. If the fish gets his head up I ski him into the boat so fast with his mouth open catching water that it can't shake it's head.

Since changing the way I fish most larger crankbaits to this style I lose very few fish compared to how many I lost in the past. Most of the time I use 50lb braid or heavier fluro and my 7'6" flipping stick. This set up will clear itself better in weeds also.

WHAT?????? Using that set up, at least for me, would be asking to never land a nice bass on a trap. Using a heavy rod is bad enough for trap fishing, but to be using braided line with it, which has no stretch, is a great recipe for tearing those treble hooks out left and right.

More power to ya if this way of fishing works for you. For me though this make absolutely no logical sense at all

I however do agree on the larger hook. I always switch out the hooks for a larger size. Especially the front one.

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I don't think the problem is the rod. You have that part of the set up right but are missing two key parts for my style of lipless crank fishing. You need heavy enough line to bring the fish to the boat with authority and a big enough hook to hold the fish while doing this.

For me soft forgiving rods and tiny hooks = lost fish since you are asking the rod to hold the fish and praying that the rod does it's job and keeps the tiny hooks that are to small to start with to hold. With traps I prefer to take the fight to the fish instead of letting the fish do all the fighting while I watch and pray the fish stays on powerless to do anything with wimpy equipment.

I can see no good reason to have small hooks on a trap. Put a size one or two Owner Stinger 2x strong hook on the front hanger and leave the rear hook off. When the fish hits start reeling and don't stop or try to play the fish. If the fish starts to jump then reel even faster and use the back bone and fast tip of the rod to keep it from jumping. If the fish gets his head up I ski him into the boat so fast with his mouth open catching water that it can't shake it's head.

Since changing the way I fish most larger crankbaits to this style I lose very few fish compared to how many I lost in the past. Most of the time I use 50lb braid or heavier fluro and my 7'6" flipping stick. This set up will clear itself better in weeds also.

WHAT?????? Using that set up, at least for me, would be asking to never land a nice bass on a trap. Using a heavy rod is bad enough for trap fishing, but to be using braided line with it, which has no stretch, is a great recipe for tearing those treble hooks out left and right.

More power to ya if this way of fishing works for you. For me though this make absolutely no logical sense at all

I however do agree on the larger hook. I always switch out the hooks for a larger size. Especially the front one.

From my experience skin hooked bass where the hooks tear out easily are usually the product of not having the heavy set up in the first place. The bass clamps down on the bait and your rod and line setup can't move the bait in the mouth of the fish so your hooks don't set until the bass opens it's mouth. Sometimes the bass will open its mouth and the hooks miss everything and you can't figure out why the rod bent and the hooks didn't hold. You think the hooks ripped out but what really happend was the hooks just missed after the fish opened up and let your bait go. If they do catch that way often they just barely catch on the way out of the mouth. When I set the hook with my set up the hooks almost always penatrate deep where they can't be thrown and the bait is usually deeper in the mouth of the fish. It's like jig fishing with a flipping stick when you move up to that type of hook. The hooks are big enough to hook deep or fit around a big jaw bone and the line will not break. I can usually drag a big bass through hydrilla without the hooks coming out this way.

Also, I am not the only guy who fishes traps this way or a way very close to this. Ever heard of Kelly Jordan(Braid), Rick Clunn(Heavy action long rod), or KVD (one big hook) ? They all have used a method like this on shallow cranks or lipless cranks. I just took parts of what they do, adapted it, and applied it to my current setup. I also learned alot fishing big swimbaits and seeing fish throw them or spit them out. I fish the same hooks on many of my swimbaits and they will hold a twelve pounder being dragged across the surface without straighting out.    

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I am with Randall, light line, small hooks, and wimpy rods are less than ideal for ripping traps in grass. Just like I would never fish a square bill in heavy cover on  "wimpy" open water cranking gear. Too many people have taken what a few  "pros" say about cranking , and think it applies to all cranks in all situations.

Any time heavy cover is envolved I want a big rod, heavy line, and a fast reel...............yes even for cranking.

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All valid points made there. Makes sense. I just used to fish braid on cranks and traps and didn't have much luck on my hook up to land ratio. So i switched back and now have a great hook up to landing ratio. Granted, cranks and traps are not my strong point at all. They represent no more then 15% of my fishing, so i've still got a lot to learn. I honestly wasn't trying to step on your toes or prove your way of fishing was wrong so i appologize if i came across that way.

Oh yeah, who are these fishermen that you speak of...are they supposed to be good or something ;D. Don't get smart with me :o

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All valid points made there. Makes sense. I just used to fish braid on cranks and traps and didn't have much luck on my hook up to land ratio. So i switched back and now have a great hook up to landing ratio. Granted, cranks and traps are not my strong point at all. They represent no more then 15% of my fishing, so i've still got a lot to learn. I honestly wasn't trying to step on your toes or prove your way of fishing was wrong so i appologize if i came across that way.

Oh yeah, who are these fishermen that you speak of...are they supposed to be good or something ;D. Don't get smart with me :o

No need to apologize. We all have different opinions and experiences and can learn from all of them. There really is no right or wrong way in fishing many times anyway but I am highly opinionated on the ways I have found to work better. :) My point in naming the fishermen was that I took most of the ideas from them since they were the best at what they do and it worked for me in my style of fishing as well.

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I may not make any sense with this but oh well. Get a rat l trap red zone. its a suspending rat l trap. you can fish it slower. Maybe they were short striking. By using a trap that suspends you can stop and go retieve and give them a better shot at it. :o

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I know this will be hard to do without practice but try counting or saying to yourself "one thousand one" before setting the hook. You may be trying to set to early. The fish is also battling the foliage.

Good Luck

Tom

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Losing fish is just part of fishing lipless cranks IMO.  You can do things to improve your odds for landing fish, but you still will lose some.  As my buddy says, you live by them and die by them.  Unfortunately for me it seems to be the giants that come unbuttoned, especially during tournaments.  I'm still experimenting with different setups to figure out which improvems my catch rate the most.  I'll let you know if I ever figure it out.  Don't hold your breath!

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