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Ben Miller

Baitcasting Reels backlash vs weight of lures?

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Hey Guys and Gals,  I've always been a spinning rod combo guy and only bought my first casting combo a few years ago.  Ugly Stick and a Abu 5500 used.  It was a good deal and rigged with 20 lb braid.  I wasn't ever accurate  with it but I could through heavier things like an Alabama Rig.  Never ever did I backlash it and I only through the heavier stuff.

 

So I got an Abu Pro Max recently, (I know not the best but my first low profile) rod and reel combo and I put 12 lb Floro Carbon on it.  I back lashed almost every cast with finesse type or light lures.  (Think I had the adjustments right).   But doing the same and even going to no brakes, I never had a problem with back lashing it on heavier lures.

 

Spinning for lighter and Casters for heavy?  Thanks for any response! 

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Flourocarbon is the hardest line to control.  If your learning get something soft manageable and cheap.  Berkeley xl in 12 or 14 would be a great learning line.  Braid sucks to learn on but if you go that way use 50 or 65 as it's much easier to deal with than 20.  

Use heavier lures to practice. A 3/8th jig wit trailer like a beaver or even a 1/2 will be easiest.

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20 minutes ago, Ben Miller said:

 

 

Spinning for lighter and Casters for heavy?  

^^^This. Casting light weights has more to do with the rod than the reel. What might be happening is you are trying to cast the small lures too hard because of the rod and that is causing the backlash. Of course, this is just a guess. For light lures (1/4 ounce or less) I use a spinning rod that way I don't have to buy a special baitcasting rod just for light lures.

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6 hours ago, Ben Miller said:

So I got an Abu Pro Max recently, (I know not the best but my first low profile) rod and reel combo

That is a great baitcaster I have 3 myself. Don't let the $200-500 casters make you feel bad about yours. These are excellent and will serve you well for years.

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Having taught literally hundreds to throw a baitcaster as a guide, I would have to watch you cast to be able to tell you exactly why you are backlashing.........but...........Here are some general rules of thumb...

Reel Adjustment:  Cheaper the reel, the harder it will be to cast lightweight lures.  Less quality bearings and braking systems will require a more skill to cast (I call it a very educated thumb).  Make short casts adjusting the backlash system(s) on the reel as you go.

Technique: Casting heavier weighted lures doesn't require much technique, just rare back and throw it.  The heavier lure will keep constant pressure on the line.  When you go lighter you have to really pay attention to your arm/wrist position and how you are moving the rod.  Normally, you snap the wrist with a Spinning Rod to get the maximum distance but if you do that with a baitcaster rigged light, you will backlash every time.  A baitcaster is more of a whole arm type of cast.  If you could see in slow motion what happens when you snap your wrist with a baitcaster, you would see a hump in your line heading out towards your lure and then traveling back to your reel.  When it gets back (very quickly by the way) you get your backlash.  

Edited by TOXIC
Mis spoke Said baitcaster, meant spinning.
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8 hours ago, Gundog said:

^^^This. Casting light weights has more to do with the rod than the reel. What might be happening is you are trying to cast the small lures too hard because of the rod and that is causing the backlash. Of course, this is just a guess. For light lures (1/4 ounce or less) I use a spinning rod that way I don't have to buy a special baitcasting rod just for light lures.

 

OP  For me the rod is major for light lures.  The reel isn't so important for 1/4 oz. up.  However, personally once I get below 3/16 oz. the reel also becomes very important.  Some guys with many years of experience can cast 1/8 oz. on a MH rod.  I can't.

 

Like John said, fluorocarbon is not a good line to learn on for light lures.  Also a lighter line will help get more distance....which may keep you from throwing too hard.  I would suggest dropping down to 8# mono or co-polymer if light lures is going to be what you plan on throwing most of the time with that combo.

 

What do you consider light?

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54 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

 

OP  For me the rod is major for light lures.  The reel isn't so important for 1/4 oz. up.  However, personally once I get below 3/16 oz. the reel also becomes very important.  Some guys with many years of experience can cast 1/8 oz. on a MH rod.  I can't.

 

Like John said, fluorocarbon is not a good line to learn on for light lures.  Also a lighter line will help get more distance....which may keep you from throwing too hard.  I would suggest dropping down to 8# mono or co-polymer if light lures is going to be what you plan on throwing most of the time with that combo.

 

What do you consider light?

It sounded to me like he was just learning to use the reel.  Going below 3/8th before he is comfortable with the setup is an exercise in fustration.  I have never used the reel in question is it even capable for lite lures.  I use an alphas for lite lures but never went bfs.  Throwing a weightless trick worm was enought for me.

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great advice from everyone. i throw a 3/16 oz texas rigged worm/lizard on a bc reel w/12 lb fluoro, with a 7’ mh rod, far more than any other presentaion. it can be done! you’re gonna have to practice that smooth cast like the guys are telling you even if it costs you some distance. once you find that sweet spot with your reel settings and casting motion, you’ll  be dropping those worms in a five gallon bucket from way out there.

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Did you say going to no brakes?  Wow, that will create a nightmare for you.  I know anglers far more experienced than I and they will not fish with no brakes on.  I only have 18 years at it following my retirement and sure as heck will not cast with no brakes on.

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Backing the brakes off completely isn't unusual but you better be on your game because there's no room for error.  :lol:

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I always keep at least one click on the brake because although I know that I could throw lures without brakes, I'm not a fan of picking out backlashes!

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The low pro reel has way more free spool than the ambassaduer. More brake and more thumb till you get used to it. Ditch the Fluoro for s soft mono like trilene xl. Pull off a long cast worth of line and tape the spool down. Practice lob casts with a heavier weight. Go from there

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1 hour ago, lo n slo said:

great advice from everyone. i throw a 3/16 oz texas rigged worm/lizard on a bc reel w/12 lb fluoro, with a 7’ mh rod, far more than any other presentaion. it can be done! you’re gonna have to practice that smooth cast like the guys are telling you even if it costs you some distance. once you find that sweet spot with your reel settings and casting motion, you’ll  be dropping those worms in a five gallon bucket from way out there.

You hit it on the head. Exactly my set up with the pro Max. 

 

A nice fluid cast is required. If you try and toss it to the other side of the lake you're picking line. Great advice Lo

2 hours ago, Angry John said:

It sounded to me like he was just learning to use the reel.  Going below 3/8th before he is comfortable with the setup is an exercise in fustration.  I have never used the reel in question is it even capable for lite lures.  I use an alphas for lite lures but never went bfs.  Throwing a weightless trick worm was enought for me.

I started out throwing weightless T-rigged worms with the Black Max (cheaper little brother) and it works great. The Pro Max is even better! The Silver max I can't and haven't tried too hard to dial in for weightless worms. 

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6 hours ago, TOXIC said:

If you could see in slow motion what happens when you snap your wrist with a baitcaster, you would see a hump in your line heading out towards your lure and then traveling back to your reel.  When it gets back (very quickly by the way) you get your backlash. 

Interesting.  I'd like to see a slow motion video of that!

 

BTW, has anyone experienced those computerized-braking reels from Japan, the ones that are supposed to be backlash proof? Haven't heard about them for a while now.  They are expensive, probably heavy, and perhaps unreliable.  But my gut tells me that something akin to that technology will eventually be the standard for high end casting reels. They have a system that won't allow the spool to spin faster than the line flowing out from the reel. There is a sensor monitored by a chip that controls the brakes. Can't recall off the top of my head what it's called, but sounds cool as hell.

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How light are the lures you are trying to cast?

Watch Glenn's vedio on how to cast a baitcasting reel, although you can cast the old Ambassadeur reel.

FC line isn't good to learn with, try Trilene 10 lb Big Game for lures between 3/16-1/2 oz like T-rig bullet weights or jigs, 12 lb for heavier lures to 3/4 oz.

The tape suggestion by DVT is good, especially for braid line.

The physics envolved with baitcasting reels is a spinning spool is the same as a spinning wheel, the lure weight starts the spool spinning, inertia keeps the spool spinning as the lure slows down from the line and air resistance. If the inertia isn't slowed from friction or brakes or your thumb the spool spins faster then the line comming off the spool creating a backlash.

Slowing down your casting motion to let the rod launch the lure without whipping the rod helps tremendously. 

Tom

 

 

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Late last year, I threw 17lb Suffix Siege mono on my reel I use for moving baits since most of my fishing is done in shallow water so depth is not an issue but pulling through weeds is. I liked the Siege line because it had less memory than Big Game and casts much smoother and the 17lb diameter line was almost impossible to bird's nest. When I switched to my other rod with 40lb braid, I'd almost be guaranteed to bird's nest that the first few casts until I adjusted.

 

I would recommend trying larger line than you need. Since you are looking at finesse lures, start with 14lb line and work your way down to 10lb or 40lb braid. I don't recommend starting with braid as it's the least fun to pull backlashes out of. You'll thank me later ;)

 

Also with 10lb mono or equivalent, I still find sidearm cast is often easiest.

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Perhaps it is speaking the obvious but it is not simply the weight of the lure that matters.  It is also the "surface" area of the lure.  It's much easier to cast a 1/2 ounce bullet weight than a comparable (in weight) buzzbait.  On a windy day a buzzbait can be quite a bugger (no offense to any Brits reading this).

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I learned by casting a big crankbait. Not to keep the line straight, but because it was easy to see as it was going out. Practice thumbing the spool while the bait is going out so you can get a sense of how fast the spool is letting out line. 

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The electronic reels are called DC and are made by shimano.  The claim to be backlash proof is from the daiwa sv spools.  Some of the sv spools are better than others and most have an agresive breaking profile.  A few trips to the back yard this winter to practice will make spring a lot easier.

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Thank you everyone for the replies!  Just got home and am reading them all for the first time.  There were some questions that I would like to reply in the order that were asked.  But appreciate reading all the replies for sure!!!  I think everybody makes a good point!

 

"What do you consider light?"   A weightless 3" senko with a 1.0 hook

 

"Did you say going to no brakes?"  Yes, that's referring to the abu 5500 with 20lb braid.  I only throw heavier stuff on it and never had a problem with backlash and so I decided to get another baitcaster "Max Pro" but have had tons of back lashes unless I throw 3/8 oz or less

 

"How light are the lures you are trying to cast?"  I've only used it 3 times and I have tried a 3" money minnow with a 1/8" jig head and a weightless 3" senko with a 2.0 hook and it back lashes at least a little every cast!  However and weightless swim senko with a 6.0 hook, I never had a problem and that's even with dialing the adjustments to almost nothing.

 

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6 hours ago, hawgenvy said:

Interesting.  I'd like to see a slow motion video of that!

 

BTW, has anyone experienced those computerized-braking reels from Japan, the ones that are supposed to be backlash proof? Haven't heard about them for a while now.  They are expensive, probably heavy, and perhaps unreliable.  But my gut tells me that something akin to that technology will eventually be the standard for high end casting reels. They have a system that won't allow the spool to spin faster than the line flowing out from the reel. There is a sensor monitored by a chip that controls the brakes. Can't recall off the top of my head what it's called, but sounds cool as hell.

 

I picked up a used Exsence DC just before the weather turned.  Got out with it once.  As long as I leave it on Max, PE, F, BB or SP there is no backlash even with the spool set very loose.  No thumb required.  Japan tackle calls it a no backlash reel.  http://japantackle.com/shimano-exsencedc.html 

 

Not true as any setting below Max and I can backlash it.  :(

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27 minutes ago, Ben Miller said:

Thank you everyone for the replies!  Just got home and am reading them all for the first time.  There were some questions that I would like to reply in the order that were asked.  But appreciate reading all the replies for sure!!!  I think everybody makes a good point!

 

"What do you consider light?"   A weightless 3" senko with a 1.0 hook

 

"Did you say going to no brakes?"  Yes, that's referring to the abu 5500 with 20lb braid.  I only throw heavier stuff on it and never had a problem with backlash and so I decided to get another baitcaster "Max Pro" but have had tons of back lashes unless I throw 3/8 oz or less

 

"How light are the lures you are trying to cast?"  I've only used it 3 times and I have tried a 3" money minnow with a 1/8" jig head and a weightless 3" senko with a 2.0 hook and it back lashes at least a little every cast!  However and weightless swim senko with a 6.0 hook, I never had a problem and that's even with dialing the adjustments to almost nothing.

 

 

Senko weights are tough to find.  A 5" Senko weighed .4 oz.  Using a little extrapolation I would guess that a 3" with 1/0 hook would weigh around 1/4 oz.  Most of the reels today should be able to handle that weight.  I do have a few baitcast reels I would not use for 1/4 oz. lures.

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I wouldn't even bother trying throwing a 3" senko weightless on a casting rig.  I can throw a 4" senko as long as it's texas rigged and there isn't a strong breeze in my face, otherwise that's going on the spinning rig too most days.   Most of my weightless presentations are the standard 5" senko and up.  

 

Just weighed a 4" senko and it's a hair under 1/4 oz, which I can only imagine is the lowest rating on that rod in that combo.   

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Keep in mind a 3" Senko is less then 1/2 the mass of a 5" Senko, it's smaller diameter.

I don't I would try to cast anything 1/8 oz or less with the OP's outfit with 12 lb FC line, that's is why I have finesse spinning outfits.

Also look up how to remove a backlash by reeling over it before trying to pull any loops out. You simple pull out slowly the loose line then put your thumb snugly onto the spooled line and reel all the line back onto the reel over the backlash. Now pull off the line being careful not to tangle it, I drop the line into the water, until you reach a loop nd slowly pull out the line until past all the loops. Reel the line back onto the reel running it between your fingers to apply light pressure...done.

Tom

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3" Senko, a bit over 1/8oz.  A 3' BPS Sticko weighs a little under 1/8oz. 

 

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