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BigAngus752

Missing with the Toadrunner

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I've spent nearly every outing this summer fishing a hollow-body frog for at least part of each fishing trip and I feel I've gotten very good with my hooksets.  My perfect wife bought me a new frog rod and a couple Toadrunners for my birthday a few weeks ago and I was very disappointed today when I missed three fish.  One of them was a really good LM that blew the frog up within seven feet of the boat.  Do the paddletail frogs require a different hookset?  Or do the Toadrunners need a modification?  

 

I know everyone likes complete details so I'll try to cover them:  Fishing a heavy Daiwa Aird with a Gen4 Revo SX and 50lb Sufix 832.  I was fishing long casts over a huge, dying lily pad field in 6 to 10ft of water.  Water temp 58 degrees, 100% cloudy with on and off rain, 10-15mph wind.  All three fish made solid hits on the frog, rolled it under, I did my usual "1-2" count while reeling down and swung hard up and in the opposite direction that the fish rolled (I'm positive I did that on two fish, not certain I had the direction right on the last fish).  I also did what I do with all my frogs and slathered a healthy dose of MegaStrike over the frog before I started.  I felt like my hookups went from 80% to 95% when I started doing that this summer.  Could just be superstition for me now.  

 

 Wondered if I need to wait longer before pulling the trigger with the colder water?  Bend the hooks out on the Toadrunner?  Any suggestions appreciated.  

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I tried one this year with similar results. I think I only landed 1 fish out of probably 10 bites. I normally have a pretty good hookup on frogs. Personally I hate Trokar hooks (really any cutting point hooks) and felt the gap on these are a little smaller than I'd like for a frog so I mostly just stopped using mine. If I try mine again I'm gonna try bending the hook out a bit and use them in sparser cover. 

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I had the same issue when I gave them a shot. Quite a few blow ups and zero fish. Went back to a ‘regular’ hollow body and had much better luck. Maybe smaller fish taking a shot at it that wouldn’t normally mess with a frog that size? 

 

Don’t know what the issue is, but I really want mine to work. It’s like a whopper plopper that I can toss into the middle of a field of lily pads. It comes through them great, but that doesn’t do me any good if I can’t catch a fish. Would be interested to see if others had similar experiences. 

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14 minutes ago, BrackishBassin said:

Maybe smaller fish taking a shot at it that wouldn’t normally mess with a frog that size?

I thought about that with one of the fish that tried to take it but the other two were good fish.  In fact (I'm not going to say "It was a ten pounder!") the one that I missed right next to the boat was probably 4lbs.  I'm disappointed also but clearly it draws the fish in.  These were three catchable fish in 30 minutes of fishing.  I'm thinking I'm going to bend the hooks out a little.  

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I also have struggled with this frog. I was disappointed they put trokar hooks on them. Maybe over the winter I will switch them out for regular frog hooks. I too habe had good blow ups with few fish landed. 

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2 minutes ago, CroakHunter said:

I also have struggled with this frog. I was disappointed they put trokar hooks on them. Maybe over the winter I will switch them out for regular frog hooks. I too habe had good blow ups with few fish landed. 

Darn it.  I'm seeing a pattern here.  

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 I sold mine. Hook up % was actually OK, but I was constantly frustrated by "other" issues with them. 

 

I recently got to see in person a Teckel Sprinker, and was impressed enough to buy a couple. So far so good with them. 

 

BUT....your real problem is an Abu reel, on Daiwa rod. I'm going to lose sleep knowing you do that LMAO.

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A bit off topic, and purely out of curiosity, but what do y’all have against trokar hooks? I’ve never used them, not for any particular reason, I’ve just always used gamakatsu and owner products. They work well so I’ve stuck with them. I’ve tried others like vmc which I did not like, and mustad products which were ok. But most of those were on clearance or when the shop didn’t have the size I needed in my preferred brand, or out of a mystery box. 

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5 hours ago, ItsHardwick said:

A bit off topic, and purely out of curiosity, but what do y’all have against trokar hooks? 

A cutting point hook makes a larger entry hole than a needle point, and some people have issues with fish coming unbuttoned on cutting point hooks. Meanwhile others, (I'm in this camp) take issue with the way a cutting point shreds baits and makes them useless prematurely.

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I’ve had similar issues. I bought two to try, probably had 15-20 blow ups before I finally caught one. I have only caught two. I am still on the first bait and it’s holding up well, but the original tail is starting to poke the wire through. I love the concept, it seems like a pretty decent bait, but my hookups are far better on my popping frogs and scum frogs. Maybe I’ll make a couple homemade ones over winter to try, like what was posted here in the past.

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I noticed in the promo vids that they don't show hook sets, just fish eating the bait.

 

Can't be a good sign :wacko:

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The problem is with a roadrunner vs a normal

hollow body is the fact that your twitching the bait with pauses or slowly twitching with no pause which allows the fish to eat the frog better. The roadrunner your reeling it back in and the fish doesn’t have a chance to grab it like a normal frog so the hooksets aren’t as good. 

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Once again, I should have just started selling people fishing stuff that doesn’t work years ago!!! I would be retired in a lake house 

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I noticed same thing with teckel sprinker,small bass were short striking it,if a bigger bass is around and he wants it that won't be an issue.

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On 10/19/2018 at 10:52 PM, ww2farmer said:

BUT....your real problem is an Abu reel, on Daiwa rod. I'm going to lose sleep knowing you do that LMAO.

AND I’m a Daiwa guy!  All my baitcasters are Daiwa except for my two heavy rods which have the Revos to take advantage of the massive drag. Mixing brands doesn’t bother me with fishing stuff. I’ll use whatever works best for me. But anyone that puts a Chevy LS engine in a Ford should be kicked out of the country...

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Think about it.  Would you be having the same problem with a weedless toad bait?  Perhaps you aren't considering that you've located a feeding fish, yet haven't adjusted you're retrieve.  Something blows up my bait, but is not hooked, I kill that bait and dead stick it, throw back at the fish, or use a follow up bait.  There's nothing different in the way this bait hooks fish than any other hollow frog.

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On 10/20/2018 at 1:59 PM, Ksam1234 said:

The problem is with a roadrunner vs a normal

hollow body is the fact that your twitching the bait with pauses or slowly twitching with no pause which allows the fish to eat the frog better. The roadrunner your reeling it back in and the fish doesn’t have a chance to grab it like a normal frog so the hooksets aren’t as good. 

I think this is it.  I spend a good bit of time with the Toadrunner this summer and bass would miss it by feet sometimes.  I feel like my hookup rato was good if the bass actually got the the lure in it's mouth, but it seems like they have a real hard time zeroing in on it.  I eventually learned to fish it slower and started adding more pauses, so more like a Frog and less like a Toad.  

 

I don't mind Trokar hooks in general and use Owner Cutting Points for a lot of my soft plastic fishing, but I do not like them on a frog.  Even trying to be careful I have cut myself a half dozen times by nicking the hook with my fingers while grabbing to to squeeze water out.  

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Haven't used the ToadRunner but I do like the Sprinker...I haven't really had issues with hook ups or landing, nothing that made me think the frog was the problem.  

 

Something with trebles like a plopper or walker can still stick a fish if they swipe and miss or don't eat it all the way.  The plopper toads have to be eaten all the way to hook the fish, not really surprising that it has a lower ratio.  I fish them the same way I do buzz toad or buzzbait....Rod tip high and a speed that keeps a slight bow in the line.  Give you a little built in delay time between strike and hookset.  Works for me.  

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2 hours ago, Logan S said:

I fish them the same way I do buzz toad or buzzbait....Rod tip high and a speed that keeps a slight bow in the line.  Give you a little built in delay time between strike and hookset.  Works for me.

Perfectly described.

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Haven’t fished the toad runner but have fished the teckel sprinker frog. I too have had lots of blowups with a subpar landing ratio. 

 

As others have said, fish seem to swipe at mine a lot and often bite the tail but don’t engulf the entire bait. You can’t hook them if they aren’t sucking the whole thing down! Fun to fish, but much more productive baits out there imo.

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On 10/20/2018 at 1:59 PM, Ksam1234 said:

The problem is with a roadrunner vs a normal

hollow body is the fact that your twitching the bait with pauses or slowly twitching with no pause which allows the fish to eat the frog better. The roadrunner your reeling it back in and the fish doesn’t have a chance to grab it like a normal frog so the hooksets aren’t as good. 

 

22 hours ago, J Francho said:

Think about it.  Would you be having the same problem with a weedless toad bait?  Perhaps you aren't considering that you've located a feeding fish, yet haven't adjusted you're retrieve.  Something blows up my bait, but is not hooked, I kill that bait and dead stick it, throw back at the fish, or use a follow up bait.  There's nothing different in the way this bait hooks fish than any other hollow frog.

 

18 hours ago, Logan S said:

Haven't used the ToadRunner but I do like the Sprinker...I haven't really had issues with hook ups or landing, nothing that made me think the frog was the problem.  

 

Something with trebles like a plopper or walker can still stick a fish if they swipe and miss or don't eat it all the way.  The plopper toads have to be eaten all the way to hook the fish, not really surprising that it has a lower ratio.  I fish them the same way I do buzz toad or buzzbait....Rod tip high and a speed that keeps a slight bow in the line.  Give you a little built in delay time between strike and hookset.  Works for me.  

I’ve been on the road for 3 days straight so it’s been tough to keep up with this post. This all makes perfect sense to me now. I greatly appreciate the help. 

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I had pretty good hookup ratio with mine but not until I really got myself to not set on the blow up but make sure the frog was gone. I'm fishing it over grass flats and fish are coming out of heavy cover and probably never getting a good look at it, which I think attributes to the high number of misses by the fish. 

I hate Trokar hooks, for both reasons ww2 listed. I pulled the hooks out of a regular pad crasher and put them in the toadrunner and that seemed to help even more.

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