6 minutes ago, Columbia Craw said:

It’s winter.

It’s reminding me of the Senko vs knock off threads.

 

Wait...there are Senko knock offs?

 

1 hour ago, bulldog1935 said:

Look at it this way, we didn't get into OP's warped perception of Shimano bicycle component history.   

 

Other than two innovations, chain lift designed into FD cage, and superior index shifting, they first copied Campagnolo, then they produced SunTour's 1964 patent two years before it expired.  

Ahhhhhh....I got caught on this forum!  Hey, I'm really just a runner (quit 5 Y/O due to fading performance) who replaced it full bore for my Workouts Only with both Gravel Biking and MTB - which I always did.  It's actually more fun with higher end bikes than I really needed,  that higher reliability and smoother performance  have eased me into the endeavor where I never would be confused as a real cyclist - maybe I look the part!   Yep, All the Italian OEM stuff kicked but B4 JDM Shimano, what I call silly SRAM;  and we can go on and on about Carbon frames - the most are made in Taiwan, alot are made by Giant, rebranded.

 

I hope to not pit Daiwa vs. Shimano here at all.  But those two vs. the rest;  THAT sounds fun!  Keep throwing their stuff on the wall here and see if it sticks.  I think my eventual gear will resemble my golf bags that feature three OEMs with a couple stray lesser known lines not feeling or performing any lesser at all.  I just can't imagine a $250 reel from 13 Fishing Concept, Ark, Ardent, Bates Hundo, Okuma or even Abu Garcia as being vastly inferior to similar priced Daiwa or Shimano.  And in comparisons, I would spec compare the frame, side plates, gears, spools, drag washers, line guide and more in reviews - if all are similar.

 

I might know less about reels than all the other Bass Resourcers, however my reels might have endured more than most. I've driven down logging roads with ruts so deep the rides were violent. And then after being shook like they were strapped to a Sherwin Williams paint mixer, they had to endure portages, tumbles, and storms...for decades...and I'm still using many of the same reels...and they're still catching thousands more bass. I don't know if forty to fifty years of service matters to you in extreme conditions, but if it does, I'd buy Shimano or Daiwa. 

The only thing more fun than rigging kayaks

 

and bench-tinkering reels

 

is building bicycles

 

unfortunately, it costs more, and bikes are harder to store than reels.  

But, you can also build your bike to haul the reels to fishy places you can't get to by car or boat.

 

Taiwan is the Mecca of quality bicycle frames and components, since too strong JY forced the Japanese bicycle industry to move there in 1984.  The French - aside from surrendering to the Bosch, always famous for complicating bicycles and cars, though made every important bicycle innovation before and during WWII.  The best still made in Japan emulates prewar French.  Great logo on the company that became SRAM, adopting the new name when they moved offshore and copied SunTour RD along with everyone else.  

Taiwan was also building fishing reels 10 years before Daiwa began, who in turn was building reels two decades before Shimano.  Regarding SunTour, Mr. Maeda has returned with Sun XCD, DiaCompe Ene, and Microshift.  

I use Daiwa and Shimano going back to the E series. I personally don't think it takes the Rolex of baitcasters to handle a bass but some guys are into that side of the sport.

With that said ,I have a Bates on order and if I dig it I'll order a few more.

 

12 hours ago, AVGuy said:

I just can't imagine a $250 reel from 13 Fishing Concept, Ark, Ardent, Bates Hundo, Okuma or even Abu Garcia as being vastly inferior to similar priced Daiwa or Shimano

They won't be be as long as your expectations are realistic.  There will be some nitpicky things like the incredible smoothness under load of Daiwa hyperdirve gears, the ease of skipping with an SV spool and free braking profile at the end of the cast Shimano SVS and other centrifugal reels that you may not find with some reels depending on what you buy.  You need to start somewhere and you won't know what your preferences even are in a reel let alone what you would be missing by using x in place of y.  Just buy some and have fun.  I did that recently with my $248 gravel bike.  I wanted a gravel bike and never had a steel bike so I got this rebadged Kent called a  Giordano for cheap on clearance.  I have a bunch of old rail lines converted into crushed limestone gravel trails near me including a trail head a half mile from work so I wanted something to ride when I wasn't on my MTB and a type of riding that was lower intensity and longer duration than the single track MTB trails I have.  Something I can go ride in my work clothes and boots to get my heart reat up a bit.

 

The gravel bike shaped onject came with Microshift R8, some prowheel chineasium 34T/50T cranks and external BB, 11-28Y cassette, cheap 700c wheels and 40mm CST tires. It was actually pretty decent for $248. 

 

After adding some parts to make it more to my liking it has some cheap aftermarket tubless 27.5 wheels, 2.2 Race Kings, 9 speed Microshift sword 1x, 11-46T cassette and a 46T crank.  While I like it, it is not worth what I have into it since there is no market for no name bikes like this.  You'll see this in the fishing reel market too where if it is not a Shimnao, Daiwa, Abu or Lews its hardly worth anything.  

On 12/22/2025 at 7:38 PM, Eric 26 said:

@Tackleholic I’m sorry but I’m going to have to quote @Glenn here. And yes I’m one of those people who like trying a bit of everything 😉

 

I didn't get bent up, didn't even mention a brand name;  just voicing my opinion from personal experience.  There was a time when my tackle was some of this and some of that, but not anymore;  most of the better known rod, reel, and line manufacturers can cover all the bases for a bass fishing enthusiast.  Personally, I've been loyal to Daiwa, Loomis, and Seaguar for quite a while, no reason to change.

10 minutes ago, Tackleholic said:

I didn't get bent up, didn't even mention a brand name;  just voicing my opinion from personal experience.  There was a time when my tackle was some of this and some of that, but not anymore;  most of the better known rod, reel, and line manufacturers can cover all the bases for a bass fishing enthusiast.  Personally, I've been loyal to Daiwa, Loomis, and Seaguar for quite a while, no reason to change.

All these reels are pretty competitive at the same price point. Some features a little better here and there across lines, like anything. I can feel the tiniest gear issue, so the Daiwa hyperdrive wins for me. I have a few "not those brands" and they work just fine too. 

 

JDM availability swings it all in favor of Daiwa and Shimano though, because it breaks the price/performance curve. 

11 hours ago, txchaser said:

All these reels are pretty competitive at the same price point. Some features a little better here and there across lines, like anything. I can feel the tiniest gear issue, so the Daiwa hyperdrive wins for me. I have a few "not those brands" and they work just fine too. 

 

JDM availability swings it all in favor of Daiwa and Shimano though, because it breaks the price/performance curve. 

Have you got a lot of use on the new hyperdrive Daiwas like the 100?

On 12/21/2025 at 6:42 AM, Jig Man said:

I only own Shimano reels.  Durability is a big reason.  I have Curado E7s that are around 20 years old and still look and work like they did when new.  Only one of them has had to have parts and that was because I dropped it on the garage floor.  I also have Stradic and Symmetry reels from the same time period.

I have a 25 year old Symmetry spinner that feels better than most of my new Shimanos from the last few years 

On 12/22/2025 at 12:20 PM, Bigbox99 said:

I highly doubt this is true.  From what I have seen recently Okuma is using china reels and was using Banax in the past.  Kastking has was using Trulinoya for their reels then switched to whatever they are using now.  Both Kastking and Okuma have the same plastic reel from the same OEM in their lineup.  Just go look at the Kastking Ryoal Legend II and Okuma Halogen.  They're the same reel.  I have also seen that platform all over Amazon and Aliexpress for cheap and even own both a plastic frame and alumimum frame version of it.

 The Royal Legend was released before Kastking started making their own stuff. I would imagine since it is not a new design it would still be made where it has always been. That being said, Aggressively Average Anglers YouTube channel got the information about Kastkings's factory from Kastking. I believe the MG12 was the first or one of the first designed and manufactured reels from Kastking. Yes the Okuma Halogen shares a frame with the KastKing, Calamus, and Dobyns casting reels. It is not uncommon for brands cough cough Daiwa to have their lower end models produced by a Chinese or Korean OEM. As far as Okuma using their own factories, that came from Okuma themselves responding to someone in another Bass Fishing forum. I think that Kastking and Okuma are taking the Diawa model and having their lower price point reels made by an OEM. I remembered the first time I saw an Okuma reel in the 90s. They had a booth set up at a fishing expo and they told us that they were trying to break into the states with their own name as they had been an OEM of other reel brands at that time. Keep in mind that Okuma is Taiwanese so it would not be out there to consider that the Halogen is their reel and they are making versions of it for other brands. With all that being said it would be a good idea for people to not be so naive to think that any company could not start as a budget offering and turn in to a major player in an industry. Take Hyundai/Kia or Samsung as examples. 

While most of my baitcasters are Shimanos. I wouldn't say I'm loyal to them. I have a few Daiwas but I'm not really a fan of those. The reel on my skipping rod is a Lew' and I love that.

 

Because I like Kistler rods, I bought one of their baitcasters this year and I was pleasantly surprised. I don't care if it's a knock off of a knock off. I just know I like it enough to be part of my base arsenal.

 

Any reel is going to land fish. Whatever is comfortable in your hand and with your bank account is just fine.

On 12/24/2025 at 10:23 AM, Brycecover said:

Have you got a lot of use on the new hyperdrive Daiwas like the 100?

Yes and I love them. 100/200 are both great. Like "cmon man there's no way this thing feels like this at this price"

 

Smoothness is important, but what people don't mention enough is for how long that smoothness lasts compared to all other brands.