21 hours ago, AVGuy said:

All the internet chatter and even here would say not to go outside that realm. 

And then there's the real world where plenty of people have nothing but positive long term experiences outside of D or S reels. It's only on the internet and when the question is asked do certain people act like anything but a Daiwa or Shimano will spontaneously combust without notice which is total horse shyte.

 

Personally, I haven't needed to order a part for an other-than brand reel that I'd purchased new going back at least 8 years now. Most makers or re-branders with a logo on Tackle Warehouse's manufacturers list have got their act together.

 

Past a certain price point, I'd like to know for sure that I'm able to order normal wear parts like gear sets, springs, pawls, etc, so that's a valid concern. Beyond that, I buy what I'd like to try out with the idea in mind that all mag brakes approaches behave differently from one another as do all centrifugal braking systems. Lew's ACB braking suits me better than any other centrifugal system I've tried, so I'm glad I gave them a shot. I've punished both my Tournament Pro LFS and my BB1 Pro in some of the most choked out water imaginable and they're both still rock solid. I can say the same for other brands I've tried. With normal maintenance, they've all been trouble free.

 

Any brand can put out lemons. Look around and you'll find reviews where they've sworn off Daiwa and Shimano. It's just silliness.

 

Anyone who's paranoid about a reel can buy it from Amazon, try it out, then send it back within 30 days no questions asked if it's as horrible as some people claim it might be by default. It won't be, of course.

 

 

 

 

I like trying new brands and types of reels. That said, I pretty much like 80 and 100 size reels. Smaller reels in other words.

22 hours ago, AVGuy said:

Hi;

First time post, long time listener.....I am getting back into bass fishing later in '26 out of a Kayak in which I will drag around 6-7 rods ea. time.  I really haven't fished for bass-only since my youth in the 70's on an natural lake in MN in a 15' alum. boat with 4hp - 4-5 rods/reels then.  

 

Nonetheless, I know how to attack the lake (Saguaro-AZ) when I get my 62 y/o azz out there in my comfy kayak.  I'm starting out with 5 Baitcasters, and  2 Spinners.   Basically, I have aligned my style faves and the success out there as much as possible.

 

Here are the 5 slots of BC reel sets I will spend some bucks on to get that setup going, and I had marked No Shimano/Daiwa reels in it w/o any recent experiences.  All the internet chatter and even here would say not to go outside that realm.  I found via online shopping I want these -  Lews SS RX, Lews KVD, (2)13 Fishing Concept A2, and Ardent Apex Tournament.   Those aren't a Shimano or Daiwa, you Idiot.  I get some of that.  My Shimano Bantam reel  from 1979 was smooth as silk way back. Both of my current carbon frame bikes (about $5k ea) have top line Shimano drivetrains and brakes.

 

5 Cats of lures/presentations in BC reels I will start  with - 

1.FOOTBALL JIGS/TEXAS RIG WORMS,  2.SPINNERBAITS/CHATTER BAITS, 3. SWIM JIGS/SOFT PLASTIC JERK BAITS, WTLSS SENKOS, 4.CRANKBAITS DEEP/MID, & 5. PUNCHING/FLIPPING/FROG.

Spinning rod/reel will take several finesse setups and a little overlap of the above with soft jerkbaits, wtlss senkos.

 

Please rip me why I should only go with the Shimano/Daiwa reels and avoid those lines listed above....Maybe the Lews can stay?  Only change out the 13/Ardent stuff?  Thanks for the space and I am same poster on Golf WRX if anybody is a crossover!

 

 

 

Fish what you like and much more importantly can afford to damage or lose. Fishing gear as a whole is a tool designed to assist you in catching fish. My old Lews LFS still slings a frog with the best of them, it just sounds like a can of nails jangling around on the retrieve. 
 

I prefer using my zillions but I’m not going to toss a perfectly good reel just because it’s not a “good” brand. Find out what you like to fish and buy more of that. Price point and brand can kick rocks. 

29 minutes ago, TNBankFishing said:

Fish what you like and much more importantly can afford to damage or lose. Fishing gear as a whole is a tool designed to assist you in catching fish. My old Lews LFS still slings a frog with the best of them, it just sounds like a can of nails jangling around on the retrieve. 
 

I prefer using my zillions but I’m not going to toss a perfectly good reel just because it’s not a “good” brand. Find out what you like to fish and buy more of that. Price point and brand can kick rocks. 

I here the "break" part! 

 

I also have a great affinity towards JDM, where Daiwa/Shimano reside most.  In fact, before researching fishing sites, here, tackle shops, and Ytube reviews - I googled the reels where made, trying to avoid the C place....well, turns out in pro lines of golf nowdays, much of it is made there and is superb!  Of course, fishing reels moving parts, golf clubs are metal or graphite sticks....

 

Dang, even my last SUV buy/review I went deep diving and again realizing that Toyota and Honda are the kings of reliability compared to the many other brands from Japan, Korea, and US.  I bought a Honda, but also own a Kia and there are some differences!

 

I just had to look, but that Digitaka! site - can I actually get a Legit Daiwa Zillion there for $50-70 less than US sites?  I did this with Honma irons back in 2018 straight from JP site and they were actually "forged in Japan"  - highest level of manufacturing for irons around.

I buy only Daiwa and Shimano because I trust the quality and performance of the brands over years of use.  I have no doubt that other brands make fine reels but I just stick to what I know.  Plus, I try to keep my arsenal limited to a few brands.  Daiwa and Shimano reels.  Primarily Daiwa and Loomis rods but I do have some Dobyns, Croix, and a couple odd balls mixed in.  

8 hours ago, AVGuy said:

I just had to look, but that Digitaka! site - can I actually get a Legit Daiwa Zillion there for $50-70 less than US sites?  I did this with Honma irons back in 2018 straight from JP site and they were actually "forged in Japan"  - highest level of manufacturing for irons around.

 

14 hours ago, CaughtMeABiggun said:

Kastking now manufactures their own designs in their own factory. Okuma does as well.

I highly doubt this is true.  From what I have seen recently Okuma is using china reels and was using Banax in the past.  Kastking has was using Trulinoya for their reels then switched to whatever they are using now.  Both Kastking and Okuma have the same plastic reel from the same OEM in their lineup.  Just go look at the Kastking Ryoal Legend II and Okuma Halogen.  They're the same reel.  I have also seen that platform all over Amazon and Aliexpress for cheap and even own both a plastic frame and alumimum frame version of it.

I can't speak for Kastking, but the Okuma Halogen uses lightweight carbon-fiber sideplates, not plastic.  And Okuma does use their own factory for many of their reels.  So, no, they're not the same reels as other brands.

 

Man I hate it when people make assumptions and spread misinformation.  Either get it right or stop guessing.

Plastic with carbon fiber dust mixed in is plastic with carbon fiber bust mixed in.  It doesn't deserve to be called carbon fiber because it isn't and its properties are that of the plastic polymer that dust is encapsulated within.  See the video below for some comparisons of cast carbon fiber parts.  The graphite fiber blended polymer used in fishing reels is the same as the Onyx material tested.  We have allowed "reels made from graphite fiber filled polymer" to be shorthand referred to as "graphite reels" and further micegenation of this has turned that into "carbon fiber reels" which is highly misleading.

 

 

 

Also, these are the same reel.  

I am a ASU alum and knew the Salt River lakes very well back in the 60’s. My in-laws were snowbirds having a home in Mesa, we visited often in the 90’s so familiar with the lakes.

Saguaro has become a high traffic lake due to it’s easy access and proximity to  Phoenix the area. With that said Saguaro is a decent bass lake and has some big Florida strain LMB. Can’t think of any area on the Salt River lakes where you need a flipping or pitching rods. A swimbait rod will work.

Your vintage Shimano has value and still functional with a tune up. 
Finesse spinning requires braid to leader to reduce line twist. BFS combo is finesse casting no line twist. 
I wouldn’t go beyond 4 combos and focus more on soft plastics than hard bait with the exception of jigs and spinnerbaits.

All the Salt River lakes have moderately clear water to 6’ or so.

As far as brands Daiwa s casting reels are easy to cast, Shimano are generally smaller in overall size. Today’s casting reels have smaller spools and faster gear ratios. Spinning reels you want a good reliable drag system in the 2500 size.

Rods are another component that have changed completely the 20 years. Rods are longer, lighter to balance well with the lighter weight reels. 
Brands like rods and reels are a personal choice and suggest a visit to local tackle shops that specialize in bass tackle to get up to date.

Tom

WRB-2.0    "I wouldn’t go beyond 4 combos and focus more on soft plastics than hard bait with the exception of jigs and spinnerbaits."

 

That above advice is music to my fishing ears!  Lure pricing has gone totally Pear-Shaped with the hard baits of $20-45.  I would like to have crankbaits, but now your advice gets my focus out of treble hook stuff - which I prefer!  Jigs and Spinnerbaits became my faves for bass way back, and soft plastics I will learn better as they were so-so in natural lake MN.  I gotta try those chatterbaits, which should be same rod as the spinnerbait.

 

What consensus is there for the few US made-only rods...?  Cashion, Cajun, or ALX?  Pair those with Daiwa/Lews BC reels.  Shimano/Lews Spinning.

 

1 hour ago, Glenn said:

I can't speak for Kastking, but the Okuma Halogen uses lightweight carbon-fiber sideplates, not plastic.  And Okuma does use their own factory for many of their reels.  So, no, they're not the same reels as other brands.

 

Man I hate it when people make assumptions and spread misinformation.  Either get it right or stop guessing.

Mr. Glenn - It's a lotta hoopla here also all about this topic of graphite-carbon-plastic in the reels and even rods build components.  I would hate to have plastic parts in most of a reel than perhaps the handle could be fine as "carbon".

 

In golf clubs, carbon driver heads are fine.  Faces - not so great, but can be good.   Shafts are called graphite, but they are way stiffer than fishing rods. There's titanium in drivers still and it has worked for over two decades.  

 

Both my latest bikes are carbon frames.  They have great allowances for absorbing terrain, but crack one and your done.  I had aluminum frame prior and titaniums still out there - heavier. 

No skin on my undercarriage is grated or otherwise damaged if someone else chooses different models or brands. Use what you want to.

 

I own reels from Daiwa, Shimano, ABU Garcia, Okuma, KastKing, and I think I still have a Quantum spinning reel lurking around somewhere. The combos I use most have Shimano or Daiwa reels, with the exception three KastKing BFS reels. My KastKing BFS reels have earned their spot in terms of value and performance for what I am asking them to do. The others can work adequately enough when called upon, but my first team gear handles most situations with precision, skill, efficiency. 

 

Shimano and Daiwa both have made many, many excellent reels. They have IMHO also made a few guajolotes (at least from a bang for the buck perspective) along the way. I own two or three of them. They are still the brands I look to first, mostly because I choose to.

 

Fender (Honda) and Gibson (Yamaha) make great guitars (dirt bikes) and a musician (rider) could go their whole life using (riding) just those two brands and do OK. But sometimes, you just want to play (ride) a Gretsch (Suzuki/Kawasaki). It's the same dilemma in many of our endeavors.

38 minutes ago, AVGuy said:

Mr. Glenn - It's a lotta hoopla here also all about this topic of graphite-carbon-plastic in the reels and even rods build components.  I would hate to have plastic parts in most of a reel than perhaps the handle could be fine as "carbon".

 

In golf clubs, carbon driver heads are fine.  Faces - not so great, but can be good.   Shafts are called graphite, but they are way stiffer than fishing rods. There's titanium in drivers still and it has worked for over two decades.  

 

Both my latest bikes are carbon frames.  They have great allowances for absorbing terrain, but crack one and your done.  I had aluminum frame prior and titaniums still out there - heavier. 

Plastic is commonly used in fishing reels and rods.  Most rod reel seats are plastic as are the side plates of many reels and some of the frames as well.  There are also little plastic parts inside reels such as level wind gears, clutch parts and pinion yokes.  The material is fine for these applications.  For my money I prefer aluminum and machined and anodized bar stock on the high end but I'll never say that the material is insufficient for a bass reel.  It gets the job done.

For anyone confused on the graphite fiber filled polymer vs carbon fiber thing, think of it like this:

 

I like the engineered wood sheets analogy.  Imagine is we just called plywood, chipboard and MDF all "plywood".  That's what we do with graphite filled polymer fishing reels.  We call them "graphite" or "carbon fiber" reels.  When we think of carbon fiber object we imagine layers of carbon cloth sandwiched together and impregnated with resin and formed into an object.  This is the 1st thing people think of as that is how most carbon fiber objects we use are made.  For years I have seen people on this very board come out and explain how great ABS plastic pellets with 30 nano meter long graphite dust mixed in are as a reel material because airplane wings and bike frames as if they are somehow related or made from the same material.  It is like if someone came out and defended MDF as a material because "houses are made out of plywood".  

My newest bait cast reels are Daiwa Tatula. Have bc reels Garcia Revos, BPS Carbonlites, Lew’s from $100-$250. While the Daiwa Tatula are very nice they are no better than my Revo ALXs (discontinued) and Lew,s Tourney Pro. Only own Shimano spinning reels. Vanford at top end Sahara at bottom end. Vanford is no better than Daiwa Tatula and even Fuego

1 hour ago, AVGuy said:

I would hate to have plastic parts in most of a reel than perhaps the handle could be fine as "carbon".

In this case most carbon fiber handles are in fact accurately described instead of some version injected molded polymer/plastic.

 

See the quote below for the distinction:

19 minutes ago, Bigbox99 said:

When we think of carbon fiber objects we imagine layers of carbon cloth sandwiched together and impregnated with resin and formed into an object.  This is the 1st thing people think of as that is how most carbon fiber objects we use are made. 

 

To be honest, I'm surprised and impressed by how long this thread has endured.

Well done.

A-Jay

Ya, it seems EVERY time we have a Shimano vs. Daiwa thread (which we have many), they get closed down because people are very loyal to their brands.  There's also a lot of guessing and misconceptions spread as truth, and folks get upset when they realize they were one of them.

 

A lot of emotions and egos over...fishing.

 

It's supposed to be fun folks.  No reason to get all bent up because somebody buys for different reasons than you.  What's important to you, often isn't for others. 

 

As long as they're out fishing and enjoying it, I'm happy for them.

Look at it this way, we didn't get into OP's warped perception of Shimano bicycle component history.   

 

Other than two innovations, chain lift designed into FD cage, and superior index shifting, they first copied Campagnolo, then they produced SunTour's 1964 patent two years before it expired.  

Just my opinion here :  an angler is more efficient on the water when using one brand of rod, reel, and line than he would be with 2 or 3 from different brands.  That same angler would have a more efficient assortment of rods, reels, and line if he purchased them all within the same parameters, instead of making guesswork purchases from assorted brands he is less familiar with.

@Tackleholic I’m sorry but I’m going to have to quote @Glenn here. And yes I’m one of those people who like trying a bit of everything 😉

1 hour ago, Glenn said:

 

It's supposed to be fun folks.  No reason to get all bent up because somebody buys for different reasons than you.  What's important to you, often isn't for others. 

 

As long as they're out fishing and enjoying it, I'm happy for them.

 

Edited December 23, 2025Dec 23 by Eric 26
Added content

As far as composite materials it’s yesterday, now and the future. I have 1 Daiwa Zillion 1016 and it has a composite gear side cover. No problem, no flex, I don’t see why anyone would whine over composite materials, whatever they are comprised of. Besides, we can’t prove otherwise..even aluminum alloys have changed, gear sets, etc. buy the cheaper reels and try them and do reviews, I like to read them. As for me, I’ve purchased 5 Zillions this year & 4 rods.. My Shimano Bantam 8:1 is a little tank. 

Aerospace business went through the stigma that composite material was plastic and fragile. Today composite make up major content is aerospace parts because they offer light weight with strength plus corrosion resistant.

Tom

It’s winter.