Do you consider "live" bait cheating?

[Tackleholic]

17 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

I don't think there's any doubt that live bait increases mortality.  That's been proven by studies over and over.  It exponentially increases mortality in warmer water temps.

 

I wouldn't say that everyone using live bait is placed into the bucket brigade though.  At least not here.  Most walleye tournaments are catch, photo, and release now and they are using a lot of live bait.  I would say that there's more likelihood of the individual using it to keep their catch though.  Painting all of them with a broad brush would be inaccurate.

I hear what you say about the release factor in Walleye tournaments, I'd forgotten about that.  The PWT used to hold tournaments on my lake, but to my knowledge Bull Shoals and some other southern lakes were removed from the tournament circuit.  A friend of mine who used to participate in the PWT told me it was due to the high mortality rate of fish placed in livewells in the lakes with warmer water.  Some of the Brown Trout guides on our White River will use various types of live bait, and the ones I know will release every Brown Trout their clients catch.  That water is always cold, and the guides share the attitude of not killing the fish which are the source of their livelyhood.

[gimruis]

1 hour ago, Tackleholic said:

A friend of mine who used to participate in the PWT told me it was due to the high mortality rate of fish placed in livewells in the lakes with warmer water. 

Absolutely true.  Mortality amongst walleyes is sky high once the water temps goes above 70 degrees.  And since many of them are using live bait, it only adds to the problem exponentially.

 

And on many lakes, there is a specific slot for walleyes that can be kept.  Anything outside of that size range cannot be counted as a scoreable fish if there is a weigh in.  When you are a doing catch, photo, and release format, you try to catch the biggest walleyes you can rather than the ones in the keeper slot.  So now its a lot more like a bass tournament - you go for your 5 biggest.

[slonezp]

Why fish if the mortality of the fish is more important than the harvest itself?

[gimruis]

1 hour ago, slonezp said:

Why fish if the mortality of the fish is more important than the harvest itself?

In some cases, no harvest of fish is permitted at all.  So the legal harvest is technically zero.  But hooking mortality is always a possibility.  It may be low, moderate, or high based on the species, water temperature, and presentation being used.

 

Mille Lacs lake is not allowing the harvest of walleyes this season but they still must calculate hooking mortality based on fishing pressure and water temps which comprises the permitted quota in poundage.  So in this case, calculating hooking mortality is more important than the harvest itself, which is zero.

[J Francho]

That dataset presents all sorts of problems. Manipulation to suit an agenda not the least. 

[gimruis]

4 minutes ago, J Francho said:

That dataset presents all sorts of problems. Manipulation to suit an agenda not the least. 

There are definitely problems. Models used to estimate hooking mortality being one of them.

 

Manipulation is probably not the correct term. Inaccurate might be better terminology.

[TnRiver46]

9 minutes ago, J Francho said:

That dataset presents all sorts of problems. Manipulation to suit an agenda not the least. 

Thats what I was thinking, I’d love to conduct that scientific study. In college we called those days “make stuff up and then go fishing”

[J Francho]

It starts with inaccurate, then carving occurs.  Usually carving involves using some parameter to enhance desired representations. 

[gimruis]

When I worked for the DNR as an intern out there, I saw first hand how high hooking mortality was. It’s sky high in the warm summer months. Most people are clueless about handling walleyes. They sit there with slip bobbers and live bait, let the fish swallow the leech for 10 seconds, set the hook in the throat, yank the hook out, mishandle the fish out of water for a few minutes, take a photo, and release it back into bath tub warm water.

 

Now multiply that by thousands over a 2 month span and it’s not difficult to see how fish die. I tried to educate as many people as I could on the subject but it didn’t make much of a dent.