Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
roadwarrior

D T & D D How, When And Where?

Recommended Posts

Just looking for comments on deep diving crankbaits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might not be what you are looking for specifically, but here are a couple things I would mention on DD cranks:

 

- Best suited on lighter line.  8-10lb flouro in open water if possible.  That being said, I caught my PB on 40lb Daiwa Samurai braid with a Bomber BDF8(18ft).  Just have to be more cautious on the hooksets and make sure your drag is set lighter.

- Moderate action rods.  You already have the sr705r Lamiglass rod.  I didn't like it, but you do.  My DD rod is a St Croix Avid 70mhm.  It is the difference in glass and graphite.

- Crank it on the bottom, or run it into anything you can find.  Stumps, rocks, trees, don't be afraid to loose it.

- Lure retrievers become your friend. ( get a flabadabadoo reel.  that is all they are good for!!! :eyebrows: )

- Don't be afraid to burn em.  Many people reel em down to depth fast and then slow down.  My best day ever I was burning DD22/CBD20/BDF8 and wore them out.

- Use the proper reel- 5/1 or less. My personal is a Curado E5

- Make sure you use good hooks and o-rings.  Some of the less expensive baits come with inferior hooks.  Change them for best results.

- Practice deep cranking even when it is not a crank bite.  Throw one for at least 15 mins every trip.  That way when you have to throw one all day, you can. ( crankers know what I mean there)

 

 

I'm sure I will think of some more!
 

Jeff

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had my best success on deep cranks in the summer and fall. I also noticed that anytime I can hit wood out deep with them I usually catch more fish than off any other type of structure. You WILL lose some baits doing this but it can be worth it to locate a few good deep cranking holes. Some guys can catch them with deep cranks around rip rap but I can't, doesn't mean you can't though so try it. Some current always helps to make a good cranking spot.

As was already disscussed I usually change at least the hooks that come on most cranks. Some have ok split rings with junk hooks, just give them a look and you can tell ( very light wire ) if you need to replace them as well. I use either Owner ST trebles or Mustad KVD 1X strong 2X short. The majority have the Mustads. Spro baits come with good hardware and hooks, as do some others this brand just came to mind.

I really like the Strike King 6XD baits because they catch fish but don't cost like Lucky Craft or Spro. Both of those brands make good cranks I just got tired of throwing away $15 + each time I lose one. On the other hand the hooks on the 6XD definitely need replacing so that does add to their cost each time.

As for gear I use 7' to 7'7" technique specific cranking rods and either a Calcutta TE DC 201 or a Citica E 201. I always use either 10 or 12# CXX. My rods are all graphite rods, I don't like glass rods.

As was also mentioned earlier time on the water is really the only way I've found to get better at this technique. After fishing these baits for a while you'll get a "feel" for them and you'll know you're coming over a limb or hitting rockys and you can adjust your retrieve accordingly to help cut down on the number of sagged and lost baits. I know there's plenty I left out and plenty more that I myself don't know yet but I hope what I did know helps you some.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My favorite for now is the lil john dd. I like that it vibrates harder than a lot of other cranks I threw. I havnt gotten it down to more than around sixteen feet. Ill throw it down to sixteen fow, down the slopes of steep banks and even in shallower water just pausing it after every bump and done well. If it is windy ill always throw a shallow crank to cover the first drop/ledge. If not much goin there ill swith to the deep diver and bring it down the whole ledge and down the next if theres a second drop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like a few. I don't like a few. Like: Strike King 5xd, and 6xd, Spro Little John DD + Fat Poppa. No like: Rapala Dt's, Bandit Deep Flat maxx. No opinion on Normans, or Bombers, have not used them enough to say so. Change hooks out of package on SK's, run Spro's with stock hooks untill they need to be changed. Rapala Dt's and Bandit Flat maxx have had lots of bill breaking issues for me, I don't bother with them anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've had my best success on deep cranks in the summer and fall. I also noticed that anytime I can hit wood out deep with them I usually catch more fish than off any other type of structure. You WILL lose some baits doing this but it can be worth it to locate a few good deep cranking holes. Some guys can catch them with deep cranks around rip rap but I can't, doesn't mean you can't though so try it. Some current always helps to make a good cranking spot.

As was already disscussed I usually change at least the hooks that come on most cranks. Some have ok split rings with junk hooks, just give them a look and you can tell ( very light wire ) if you need to replace them as well. I use either Owner ST trebles or Mustad KVD 1X strong 2X short. The majority have the Mustads. Spro baits come with good hardware and hooks, as do some others this brand just came to mind.

I really like the Strike King 6XD baits because they catch fish but don't cost like Lucky Craft or Spro. Both of those brands make good cranks I just got tired of throwing away $15 + each time I lose one. On the other hand the hooks on the 6XD definitely need replacing so that does add to their cost each time.

As for gear I use 7' to 7'7" technique specific cranking rods and either a Calcutta TE DC 201 or a Citica E 201. I always use either 10 or 12# CXX. My rods are all graphite rods, I don't like glass rods.

As was also mentioned earlier time on the water is really the only way I've found to get better at this technique. After fishing these baits for a while you'll get a "feel" for them and you'll know you're coming over a limb or hitting rockys and you can adjust your retrieve accordingly to help cut down on the number of sagged and lost baits. I know there's plenty I left out and plenty more that I myself don't know yet but I hope what I did know helps you some.

 

Everything that 00Mod said but I would add try them right before and during the spawn too. Throw a DD 22 in 6-10 FOW on heavy line in the back of spawning pockets. They dig in hard and when they deflect they can go several feet sideways. I also like the suspending DD's too when the fish are hanging out right below the thermocline in deep water. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Comments:

Takes time and effort to develope confidence.

One of the best techniques to search for fish.

They catch largemouth and smallies equally as well.

You can spend a fortune to get a good bait or less than five bucks.

Four or five color patterns cover about all your needs.

The term deep is relative to the body of water.

Having equipment that permits long casts is an advantage.

Parabolic action rods seem to improve hook and land ratios.

8 ot 10 pound test line is stronger than you might think.

There is a dog's breakfast of opinions on what rod reel, baits, line, snap or no snap and or hook to use. Just find something you like and go fishing.

They can flat wear you out.

Before you buy one deep diver, buy a lure retriever.

If you want to fish for fish other anglers leave alone, fish DD crankbaits.

In the right siuation, in the right spot, you can load the booat and not move it one inch.

Kent already knows all this and is setting us up. Happy cranking !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you guys know how deep your bait is running? I am assuming it is because you are hitting bottom of a known depth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kent already knows all this and is setting us up. Happy cranking !

 

Yes sir, you are correct.

 

How do you guys know how deep your bait is running? I am assuming it is because you are hitting bottom of a known depth?

 

That is the easiest way!

 

Jeff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Silent / non-rattling DD crankbaits work - even in less than clear water conditions.

 

I found that little longer handle on a cranking rod (behind the reel seat) helps reduce the angler wear & tear on an all day crankbait trip.  Distance casting requires less effort and I find the under arm tuck of the rod during the retrieve is quite comfortable.  I added 5 inches or so to my Lamiglas rods.

 

And finally I love glass rods and thin braid for cranking.

 

A-Jay

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Equipment designed to fish deep cranks and high resistance lures is a major factor,  rods over 7ft moderate or moderate fast,  lower gear ratio /IPT reels, I prefer FC line in 12 or 15 lb test, I can get a bait 1-3 foot deeper and it has great abrasion resistance.      

 

Use your knowledge of the thermocline to limit unproductive water, no need to fish 20ft divers if the TC is at 16 ft.    If your bait is not digging into the bottom, bumping rocks, logs, whatever is there, it needs to be.    

 

Lots of great suggestions already.            

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't talk about gear other than I throw them with floro and like A-Jay like a slightly longer grip, instead of my standard 10" rear grip I prefer 12.5-13".   

 

I love throwing them in late fall.  I fish alot of rivers so I concentrate on deep gravel bars and rocky points banging the bottom the whole time.  I have also been known to drag them through deep sandy flats every once in a while.  On the rivers I like to crank against the current.  It helps drive the crank deeper, while allowing for a slower retrieve if needed.  During these types of times color hasn't been to much of a factor in my opinion, more of a reaction bite.

 

My favorite retrieve on DD's is to crank down to the bottom and then use long sweeping strokes then reeling down.  I get alot of hits on the pause/reel down.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was honestly my first year of putting some serious time into deep cranking.I learned how extremely important it is to have a dedicated combo. In the past I'd tried to fish deep crank on my same rod I fished shallow runners on. It was so much work to try to fish one that I'd make a couple casts and put it away again. I got a 7' 8" Mojo "Big Crankster" and paired it with a 5.1 PQ and now I can pull a deep crank with ease. Makes sense though, you never learn how to fish a bait you never fish. The bait hitting the bottom is very important. It seems that most of my fish hit immediately after my bait deflects off the bottom. I don't fish many of the super deep runners, no need for them in most of the lakes here. Strike King Series 5 and 5XD, deep little Johns, and fat free shad. I change the hooks out on most of the baits out of the package to #4 or short shank #3 VMC hooks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i like the norman dd22 with a feather trailer. killer, but i do loose a few, great posts on the gear, long rod under the arm helps the hands alot 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man you guys are all over this! Good stuff. All i can stress is that buying premium treble hooks and taking a few minutes to change them out is very important. Ww2farmer was right about stock strike king hooks. They are horrible. It is worth it to change them out.

Only other thing i dont think i saw that is worth mentioning is learn how to tie and rapala knot or use some good snaps.

I like the snaps i can change baits quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the DD's for cranking and the Deep Little N for trolling as it gets down there pretty deep on 30yrds. of line.  I also do what crappiebasser does; throw deep divers in shallow water, especially the more bouyant ones.

Not a big fan of the DT series except in the pre-spawn as they float back up very slowly and with the addition of a SuspenDot or two become a killer at that time. 

Unlike a lot of guys I will throw a crank at suspending bass, and this is where knowing how deep your bait runs and how long it takes to get it down there become important.  Most baits can take up to 1/3 of the casting distance just to reach maximum depth and you also loose out on the end of the cast. You can figure that maybe only 30%-40% of your casting distance will that bait be in the zone.  This is where a suspending FatFree Shad or Fingerling really shines.  When it comes to targeting suspending fish this way I can give you one important tip: Keep your bait above the fish, whether smallies or largemouth. With the smallies, it isn't as important to get the bait within a foot or two above the fish, but with largemouth you sometimes need to be a lot closer to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Man you guys are all over this! Good stuff. All i can stress is that buying premium treble hooks and taking a few minutes to change them out is very important. Ww2farmer was right about stock strike king hooks. They are horrible. It is worth it to change them out.

Only other thing i dont think i saw that is worth mentioning is learn how to tie and rapala knot or use some good snaps.

I like the snaps i can change baits quickly.

My buddy learned that the hard way. I watched him lose 2 6+ pound fish the same day because of the junk hooks on a SK 1.5. Either fish would have been his PB. He always wondered why I'd buy a bait with brand new hooks and change them out, now he knows why. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How, When, and Where?

 

How: 

I wont go into what rod, reel, and line you should or shouldnt use but instead simply list what I use.  Personal preference trumps all else so fish what you are comfortable with.

My rod is a Med Heavy American Rodsmiths David Fritts Cranking Rod - 7' long

My reel is a Shimano Curado E5

My line is Trilene 8lb XT (yes, 8lb, its tougher than you would expect)

My presentation is simple, plow the bottom with the bill and run into everything I can.  Pause a second after running into solid objects before starting the retrieve again.

 

When:

Anytime.  Just as some bass stay shallow year round, some bass will stay deep year round.  However, late fall/winter and just before the dog days of summer are when I'll start really looking for fish gathering deep.  Once the thermocline sets up, Ill fish fish the maximum depth of the thermocline plus an additional 2-3 feet deeper.  There will be fish below the thermocline, just not many.  I assume they are down there feeding for breif periods then find their way back above the thermocline, but I honestly don't know.

 

Where:

This is the challenging part for me sometimes.  Some days I will search and never find them.  Other days I will search for an hour only to find them in one spot that appears identical to others that I have already checked, and they will be stacked THICK.  Once found, you can usually sit on them and make a good trip out of it.  Specifically, I look for channel swings with steep drop offs on either side of the channel.  Ill usually fish the edges of the dropoffs but will sometimes hit the bottom of the channel for a while.  The second place I look for is mid lake humps.  Much like channel swings, when I find them they are stacked thick and you can make a good trip out of a single location.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When?  During pre spawn.  Where? Over grass in 12-18 feet of water.  One of my favorite patterns.  I'll start as early as late Feb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The difference between the DT series and the DD series are pretty huge . I have a tremendous amount of confidence in both, and fish both under many circumstances . To start with, the nice thing about the DTseries is the availability of the range . From the 4 to the 20, you know where your bait is, period . The DTis also a balsa based bait with high flotation . When you're fishing in hard cover or large rock where a bait nay be prone to hanging a bit more, the baits can back out of a snag more efficiently than many of their competitors. The Rapala bait is also relatively tight in comparison to many other shad body cranks . The Norman cranks are reliable across the board as well . They have excellent colors and are quite durable when you find yourself fishing in heavy grass or large rock . They're a much wider wobble with more roll than the DT series baits, also with a lower pitch rattle . Both feature VMC hooks and both have excellent hookups . I tend to favor the Rapala more as a search bait than the Norman, more because I can rely on it to be more erratic and mobile when I am moving it at slower or faster speeds . It is a more variable bait than the Norman . When I have a specific pattern than fish are located at a specific depth and on a larger profile bait, I tend to favor the Norman baits . 

The third series of bait that I throw extensively as both a search and targeted pattern is the Fat free Shad . They float well, have very good dive angle and remain at depth for reliable amounts of a cast . They also have a variety of depths with one of few that is in a sub one ounce 18-19 foot dive range . The FFS has very good hooks, are very durable, and have very consistent behavior at depth . They also perform well in cover, which is probably the singular drawback to the fragility of the Rapala . I could expand a bit more, but I fear I've already bored most out of their skulls...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The difference between the DT series and the DD series are pretty huge . I have a tremendous amount of confidence in both, and fish both under many circumstances . To start with, the nice thing about the DTseries is the availability of the range . From the 4 to the 20, you know where your bait is, period . The DTis also a balsa based bait with high flotation . When you're fishing in hard cover or large rock where a bait nay be prone to hanging a bit more, the baits can back out of a snag more efficiently than many of their competitors. The Rapala bait is also relatively tight in comparison to many other shad body cranks . The Norman cranks are reliable across the board as well . They have excellent colors and are quite durable when you find yourself fishing in heavy grass or large rock . They're a much wider wobble with more roll than the DT series baits, also with a lower pitch rattle . Both feature VMC hooks and both have excellent hookups . I tend to favor the Rapala more as a search bait than the Norman, more because I can rely on it to be more erratic and mobile when I am moving it at slower or faster speeds . It is a more variable bait than the Norman . When I have a specific pattern than fish are located at a specific depth and on a larger profile bait, I tend to favor the Norman baits . 

The third series of bait that I throw extensively as both a search and targeted pattern is the Fat free Shad . They float well, have very good dive angle and remain at depth for reliable amounts of a cast . They also have a variety of depths with one of few that is in a sub one ounce 18-19 foot dive range . The FFS has very good hooks, are very durable, and have very consistent behavior at depth . They also perform well in cover, which is probably the singular drawback to the fragility of the Rapala . I could expand a bit more, but I fear I've already bored most out of their skulls...

Hooligan,

 

I've seen you mention the Spro Little John Baby DD Crankbaits as your favorite "deep" crank?  Under what conditions do you favor the Spro bait?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

#1 : rules are meant to be broken.  You do not need to dig the bottom to catch bass on a deep (or any) crank.  I cringe every time i read this.  Then, it's "if your not digging you are swimbaiting."  Call it what you may, but only about 15% of my crankbait fish occur when i drag bottom.  Most of my cranking is baitfish imitation, and i really haven't seen baitfish scratching the bottom to move from point a to point b. It's unnatural. Maybe in muddy or stained water it is important, but in the clear waters i fish, i don't think it is. Then again, maybe i don't know what i'm talking about. See for yourself.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys! 

 

 

:respect-059:   :respect-059:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haven't fished them much due to a lack of confidence but I already feel like my confidence level has skyrocketed just from reading this thread. Thanks everyone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Little John and Baby fit into my arsenal much where the DT series does, with the exception of the fact that they are really excellent on ledges and rock on highland reservoirs . They are superb in hard cover as well . I tend to go to one of those baits more when I have an established pattern and I am not really searching as much because of their tremendous resistance . 

 

in regard to targeting fish in the middle of the water column while cranking, it can work, but bass are very often focused on other items of prey when they are suspended.  Cranks do represent baitfish, but the entire reasoning of banging a crankbaits on structure and cover is that they elicit strikes in doing so.  Saying that you don't see baitfish moving on bottom is ridiculous.  Shad move on the bottom of lakes and river systems all day long.  more often they are located oriented on the bottom of structure than they are related to any other point in the water column.  not only that, but they are rooting around and in and out of vegetation and rock picking off aquatic insects and other forage.  It is completely natural to see something like that.  Not to mention a huge number of cranks represent craws, bluegill and sunfish, and other prey items that are bottom oriented.  Cringe all you want, but if you aren't rooting bottom on a crankbait you're missing fish.  you'll catch a fwe in the middle of the water column, but not nearly as many as if you pull in to a piece of structure and fish it properly by banging that crankbait around.  There are a variety of reasons for this, depth control of cranks targeting suspended fish is only the start.  unless it is just above them, they aren't going to run to eat it.  If the bait is below them, black bass will almost never feed down.  In all honesty, fishing a crankbait in open water to suspended fish is not good advice under most circumstances.  it is not a tactic that I, or any pro I know or fish with, would employ under normal circumstances.  there are other baits that do that job far better than cranking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • fishing

    fishing forum

    fishing rods

    fishing reels

    fishing

    bass fish

    fish for bass
    fish

×