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Siebert Outdoors

New Morel Jighead and Sexy shad color!

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We have just added our Morel Jighead!  The Morel Jighead is built on an 5313 Owner hook .  The head is a mushroom shape to help stand the bait strait up.  These are perfect for fishing the Ned Rig. http://www.siebertoutdoors.com/Morel-Jig-Head-1022.htm

We also have released our Sexy Shad color in all of our jig styles.

 

black morrell.jpg

sexy shad.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Siebert Outdoors said:

The Morel Jighead is built on an 5313 Owner hook

Now you're talking!  Nice stuff!

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I recognize your last name.  Did you hang around the bass pro forums/another site.org circa 200-2004?  I think I may know you...

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Mike was the Moderator.

 

:fishing-026:

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10 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

Mike was the Moderator.

 

:fishing-026:

Yes...him and Joe S ...

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1 hour ago, Bass Turd said:

Will there be any with weed guards?

Not right now but I hope to in the future.

 

Roadwarrior is correct.  I use to moderate over there.  Gave that up when I found BR and created SO.

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I bought a few 1/16th and 3/32nd. Interested to give these a try. They look great. 

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Sorry, but I have to ask why these are so expensive?  A 1/0 Owner 5313 hook purchased in bulk is about 3 cents  even after paying the 10% excise tax on them.   The hook keepers when purchased in bulk are about 3 cents,  a very small amount of lead and a tiny bit of powder paint make up the materials.   Call it 10 cents to be fair.    So why the need to make such a huge margin on a product like this, why not the standard 40-45% margin that is typical for retailers?        Even a 100% margin on this product keeps the price at about 20-25 cents  a piece.  

Jigs I understand, they take a little more time and have a creative aspect to them.  There is just nothing special about these jig heads.

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49 minutes ago, Molay1292 said:

Sorry, but I have to ask why these are so expensive?  A 1/0 Owner 5313 hook purchased in bulk is about 3 cents  even after paying the 10% excise tax on them.   The hook keepers when purchased in bulk are about 3 cents,  a very small amount of lead and a tiny bit of powder paint make up the materials.   Call it 10 cents to be fair.    So why the need to make such a huge margin on a product like this, why not the standard 40-45% margin that is typical for retailers?        Even a 100% margin on this product keeps the price at about 20-25 cents  a piece.  

Jigs I understand, they take a little more time and have a creative aspect to them.  There is just nothing special about these jig heads

shhhhh.  75 percent of people don't know these things. (;

Baby needs some shoes ! That's why !! 

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1 hour ago, Molay1292 said:

Sorry, but I have to ask why these are so expensive?  A 1/0 Owner 5313 hook purchased in bulk is about 3 cents  even after paying the 10% excise tax on them.   The hook keepers when purchased in bulk are about 3 cents,  a very small amount of lead and a tiny bit of powder paint make up the materials.   Call it 10 cents to be fair.    So why the need to make such a huge margin on a product like this, why not the standard 40-45% margin that is typical for retailers?        Even a 100% margin on this product keeps the price at about 20-25 cents  a piece.  

Jigs I understand, they take a little more time and have a creative aspect to them.  There is just nothing special about these jig heads.

There is no sorry about this.  You are correct in your cost analysis.  Mike just takes the time to do it.  I think it's worse to pay $4.99 for a Denny brauer flipping jigare in mexico.

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6 hours ago, Bass Turd said:

Will there be any with weed guards?

Just use a small rubber band over the hook eye and attach under the hook barb.

Rubber bands used for denture braces come colors and the right size.

Tom

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Molay,  please double check your prices.  The hook is not 3 cents each.  They are considerable more then that.  I order direct from Owner.  You might be able to get a Mustad or Eagle Claw for close to that in bronze light wire.

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My math skills are certainly not great so it is entirely possible that I made a mistake, here is my price for the Owner hooks.

size 1/0  57 hooks to pack 10 pack minimum order, $16.09/pack  

Now that I look, I see I did make a mistake, the cost of the hook would be closer to 28 cents at the price I buy at.  My apology.  

Material is closer to 35 cents, a lot more expensive than what I had figured in my original post.    

 

 

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11 hours ago, Molay1292 said:

Sorry, but I have to ask why these are so expensive?  A 1/0 Owner 5313 hook purchased in bulk is about 3 cents  even after paying the 10% excise tax on them.   The hook keepers when purchased in bulk are about 3 cents,  a very small amount of lead and a tiny bit of powder paint make up the materials.   Call it 10 cents to be fair.    So why the need to make such a huge margin on a product like this, why not the standard 40-45% margin that is typical for retailers?        Even a 100% margin on this product keeps the price at about 20-25 cents  a piece.  

Jigs I understand, they take a little more time and have a creative aspect to them.  There is just nothing special about these jig heads.

Where did you find the 5313 in bulk for 3 cents each????? Try 30 cents with the 10% excise tax each. I challenge you to look at every company that mass produces lead based lures and find more than 3 that use Owner hooks and then find me more than 3 wholesale hook distributers that sell Owner hooks, in fact find me 1 wholesale distributer that deals with them. I'll save you some time, as someone who has been making lures for 20 years now, I can tell you that unless you can afford to buy in lots of 10K or more, you'll pay 30 cents per hook for a size #1 5313, you'll pay 36 cents for a 1/0. So give me you name an address and I'll send you not 30 dollars but I'll even give you 40 dollars plus pay for shipping to buy a box of 1000 size 1/0 5313 hooks from you, because the best price I can get with under 10K is $300/1000 which is 30 cents per hook before shipping and that is the price with the 10% excise tax. Think before you speak, this is something I know a lot about.

 

EDIT: I apologize as I didn't read your second reply but I still have a slight problem. I make the same type of head, when I figure in my material price, hooks, paint, wire keepers, and lead, the price is close to 41 cents and that isn't even including time, so based on what Seibert is selling those for I'd say he isn't getting much for his time. I will apologize for the tone I'm setting but it seems that when a custom tackle maker puts out something of high quality, someone always has something to say about price yet Z-Man produces their "Shrooms" head in large volume with an inferior hook to what is used on the Morel jig and they charge $4.99 per 5 pack, which is 99.8 cents per head and nobody blinks and eye, why is that?? Owner is very steadfast in their prices to both consumers and businesses, that is why you don't see a lot of them used except for high end tackle and you pay for it, the same with vendors, I've contacted 9 different places I purchase materials from and they all tell me it doesn't pay them to keep a large inventory of Owner hooks because they don't make much from them as there really isn't a good wholesale price unless you carry such a large inventory that it will take forever and a day to sell. I guess I'm just tired of seeing custom guys getting called out for price on high quality tackle while mass produced items aren't even questioned on price.

Edited by smalljaw67
Misread entire post.
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I personally am done with the zman shroom heads! 5.00 a pack, and worthless keepers that will fall of for no reason. The elaztec is tougher than shroomz jigs are:)

I will be lookin into Mikes version. If i can get a quality product for the same price or a tad more,it money well spent. :)

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7 hours ago, smalljaw67 said:

Where did you find the 5313 in bulk for 3 cents each????? Try 30 cents with the 10% excise tax each. I challenge you to look at every company that mass produces lead based lures and find more than 3 that use Owner hooks and then find me more than 3 wholesale hook distributers that sell Owner hooks, in fact find me 1 wholesale distributer that deals with them. I'll save you some time, as someone who has been making lures for 20 years now, I can tell you that unless you can afford to buy in lots of 10K or more, you'll pay 30 cents per hook for a size #1 5313, you'll pay 36 cents for a 1/0. So give me you name an address and I'll send you not 30 dollars but I'll even give you 40 dollars plus pay for shipping to buy a box of 1000 size 1/0 5313 hooks from you, because the best price I can get with under 10K is $300/1000 which is 30 cents per hook before shipping and that is the price with the 10% excise tax. Think before you speak, this is something I know a lot about.

 

EDIT: I apologize as I didn't read your second reply but I still have a slight problem. I make the same type of head, when I figure in my material price, hooks, paint, wire keepers, and lead, the price is close to 41 cents and that isn't even including time, so based on what Seibert is selling those for I'd say he isn't getting much for his time. I will apologize for the tone I'm setting but it seems that when a custom tackle maker puts out something of high quality, someone always has something to say about price yet Z-Man produces their "Shrooms" head in large volume with an inferior hook to what is used on the Morel jig and they charge $4.99 per 5 pack, which is 99.8 cents per head and nobody blinks and eye, why is that?? Owner is very steadfast in their prices to both consumers and businesses, that is why you don't see a lot of them used except for high end tackle and you pay for it, the same with vendors, I've contacted 9 different places I purchase materials from and they all tell me it doesn't pay them to keep a large inventory of Owner hooks because they don't make much from them as there really isn't a good wholesale price unless you carry such a large inventory that it will take forever and a day to sell. I guess I'm just tired of seeing custom guys getting called out for price on high quality tackle while mass produced items aren't even questioned on price.

No need to apologize as your post is correct.     I can provide you a wholesale distributor for Owner hooks if you are interested, you can buy in lots of 570 hooks and stay just below .30 each for a 1/0.  I agree the product that Mike is building is far superior to the Z-Man shroom heads, but I still feel that they are a little overpriced.       My experience is that if you have to go over 100 percent on margin to capture your cost and make a little profit, you have to find a better process.

My calculations are like this   .28 cents a hook + .03 cents for the wire keeper + .02 cents of lead + .02 cents of paint.     This is about .35 cents for a 1/16th oz jig, and maybe just a tad more as they get heavier.      Of course this is just material.

Again I appreciate your post as it was factual and not personal.   Just as mine is intended.

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26 minutes ago, Molay1292 said:

My experience is that if you have to go over 100 percent on margin to capture your cost and make a little profit, you have to find a better process.

Industry standard is 300% markup, minimum.  Sometimes more on super inexpensive items.  Mike's are already 10% less than Z-Man.  Besides, why does it matter to you?  How about you go through all the hoops, spend for a website, spend for advertising, invest in time on social media, all to spend even more time making the jigs, and fulfilling orders, all at a so called "lower price" because in your head you could do it cheaper because you already make them yourself.  Then, after you've done all that, wait for "THAT GUY" to show up on your new product announcement post to say he can do it cheaper.

Jeez.

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I will make an order for the Ned rig style jig heads for sure. I bought some jig heads on an auction site that are good, but like to order from places like SO when I can. Those hooks look nice. Add a touch of gel super glue and I bet you could wear some fish out quick. The zman trd isn't a bad crappie bait either lol. Caught some slabs looking for bass

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I'd be interested to see these heads side by side with the z-man. Is the hook larger or heavier wire or are they roughly the same? I personally wouldn't mind a more sturdy hook version of a ned rig head

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Looks to be a slightly heavier wire, and has that sweet Owner Cutting Point.  I use mushroom heads, but don't throw a Ned rig, so I'm interested in ordering some.

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I ordered some from Siebert, the price seemed very reasonable for the quality over the zman jigs. I will post a side by side pic when I get them. 

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3 hours ago, J Francho said:

Industry standard is 300% markup, minimum.  Sometimes more on super inexpensive items.  Mike's are already 10% less than Z-Man.  Besides, why does it matter to you?  How about you go through all the hoops, spend for a website, spend for advertising, invest in time on social media, all to spend even more time making the jigs, and fulfilling orders, all at a so called "lower price" because in your head you could do it cheaper because you already make them yourself.  Then, after you've done all that, wait for "THAT GUY" to show up on your new product announcement post to say he can do it cheaper.

Jeez.

I understand your point, I do have a website, I do spend the money, web hosting, domain name, data management and  automated inventory fees, credit card processors, analytics, SEO,  and also deduct it all on taxes so it really plays no role in pricing.   When I talk 100% margin, I am not talking from  mfg to wholesaler to retailer, I am talking a product that it is made and sold by yourself.  If you were to make those same jig heads for  a wholesaler you would be lucky to get 20% margin on cost,  because he has to sell them cheap enough that his retail buyers can make 40% or it's not worth their time other than a customer convenience.    

Shipping is a whole other subject and all I will say is many people also make money on order filling.

I have made no claim to being able to do it cheaper, I asked why this type of jig head is so expensive when compared to the cost to produce it.

Why it matters to me is, I use a lot of this particular type of jig head, sometimes I lose as many as 20 in a day, so the cost of the heads is important to me.   I will return your question, "why does it matter to you?"

 

 

 

 

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If nobody sells a similar jighead  (both in quality/appearance) cheaper then there really is no argument !  

Of course making your own would be cheaper ... that runs parallel with most things ! But I don't want 100 of them.. the bottom line is if there isnt a company selling the exact quality of this jighead for less money then the whole discussion is pretty pointless.. because a consumer (typically ) only needs a few. And might have many, but surely doesn't need them in bulk... 

I know plenty of people like making their own things for fishing and I'm sure it feels good to catch fish on an item you created. But that is a different discussion.. the one here is answered simply. Does company X sell this EXACT jighead for cheaper ? If not then I don't see why you are arguing.. 

Let's just fish.. 

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44 minutes ago, Yeajray231 said:

If nobody sells a similar jighead (both in quality/appearance) then there really is so argument !  

Of course making your own would be cheaper ... that runs parallel with most things ! But I don't want 100 of them.. the bottom line is if there isnt a company selling the exact quality of this jighead for less money then the whole discussion is pretty pointless.. because a consumer (typically ) only needs a few. And might have many, but surely doesn't need them in bulk... 

I know plenty of people like making their own things for fishing and I'm sure it feels good to catch fish on an item you created. But that is a different discussion.. the one here is answered simply. Does company X sell this EXACT jighead for cheaper ? If not then I don't see why you are arguing.. 

Let's just fish.. 

I have no argument with anyone, I just asked a question supported by fact, why do these jig heads cost so much in relation to the cost of making them.    That is it.      

 

 

 

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