At the advice of those here I recently purchased this rod: 

 

7’4” XH Falcon Expert Amistad Casting Rod

 

On paper it looked perfect to me, lure rating of 1-3 oz which most of the swimbaits I throw fall into.  However, I’ve heard people advise against getting a swimbait rod that is “too heavy” and that you don’t want a broomstick.

 

What problems could this pose? I upgraded to this from a 7’4” HF Mojo as I wanted a little more backbone for throwing heavy swimbaits like the Bull Shad, Chad and Deps. Most of the baits I will be throwing on this rod fall right in the 1-3 oz rating, are these always accurate and is it important to stay inside of those limits? I believe the mojo only went up to 1.5 oz.

To me there is a huge disadvantage throwing a 2-3oz hard swimbait or A-rig on that rod.    It's the last rod I'd want in that role.    Big swimbait/a-rigs rods have a huge parabolic component to them.   

 

If you are throwing single hooked big swimbaits, creeping them on the bottom, rock on with that XH, but if it's got trebles, or is moving constantly, XH is a big no go in my opinion. 

 

Let me also add though that all rods are different on ratings, and every rod is a law unto itself.   

 

Don't let opinions on the internet influence the decision you already made.   Go fish that nice new rod, the rest will work itself out.  

5 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

To me there is a huge disadvantage throwing a 2-3oz hard swimbait or A-rig on that rod.    It's the last rod I'd want in that role.    Big swimbait/a-rigs rods have a huge parabolic component to them.   

 

If you are throwing single hooked big swimbaits, creeping them on the bottom, rock on with that XH, but if it's got trebles, or is moving constantly, XH is a big no go in my opinion. 

Then what would you want?

1 minute ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Then what would you want?

Any of the various rods made for big swimbaits and A-rigs.

 

The rod imho is easily the most important aspect to fishing these baits, you can use lighter line, smaller sized reel, but the rod is paramount for a variety of reasons.      

15 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Any of the various rods made for big swimbaits and A-rigs.

 

The rod imho is easily the most important aspect to fishing these baits, you can use lighter line, smaller sized reel, but the rod is paramount for a variety of reasons.      

Yeah I just thumbed through my previous threads, I saw your explanation of the action.  I think I need the power rating 1-3 oz + mod-fast action, can’t seem to find this in a rod under 7’6” though. 

Do you have the regular Amstad or the extra heavy?  The regular is the one I recommended in your other thread for 1-2.5 oz swim baits and arigs. It lists as 2oz, heavy, fast but it’s a little more moderate than a true fast and has the power to throw about 3oz as a top rating.  The extra heavy is bigger, heavier, and stiffer. It’s meant for pitching heavy stuff into dense cover and being able to horse a fish out. Two different rods despite the name. 

22 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Yeah I just thumbed through my previous threads, I saw your explanation of the action.  I think I need the power rating 1-3 oz + mod-fast action, can’t seem to find this in a rod under 7’6” though. 

Yeah that nails it.     My rod is a H-Mod Fast.    The more I fish it, the more I appreciate having a forgiving rod for these baits.   I'm already so keyed up fishing these big baits that you swing for the fences when they bite, then the addrenline kicks in because a fish actually just bit such a big bait and you go to cranking like a mad man which Tactical Bassin actually recommends shortening the fight.    Honestly if you invest the 3-4hrs time in dedicated material they have on this subject you'll know everything they do.     They were a goldmine in getting me jumpstarted, and investing in this style of fishing has really paid off thus far.       

13 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Yeah that nails it.     My rod is a H-Mod Fast.    The more I fish it, the more I appreciate having a forgiving rod for these baits.   I'm already so keyed up fishing these big baits that you swing for the fences when they bite, then the addrenline kicks in because a fish actually just bit such a big bait and you go to cranking like a mad man which Tactical Bassin actually recommends shortening the fight.    Honestly if you invest the 3-4hrs time in dedicated material they have on this subject you'll know everything they do.     They were a goldmine in getting me jumpstarted, and investing in this style of fishing has really paid off thus far.       

Is moderate too much and mod-fast ideal?

13 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Is moderate too much and mod-fast ideal?

yeah, to me moderate is like a pure dedicated crankbait rod, whereas a mod-fast can still run those trebles fantastically, but equally have a bit more ability to drive a heavier guage single hook on a moving bait like an A-Rig, or Chatterbait.

 

 

 

 

If you're looking for a shorter swimbait rod that's effective with both trebles and single hook, you probably have to look closer at Japanese rods.  This line is highly recommended, but I have no personal experience.

 

https://www.majorcraft-america.com/collections/rods/products/benkei-casting-type?variant=42004745126070

 

7' long and covers 3/8-3oz in reg/fast at $150.  The description by those that have it reminds me of Megabass P5 Tequila Bacarac.

 

scott

Yes, but since overpowered or underpowered is a function of a percentage of the lure's weight, it would have to be quite a bit more or less (weight wise) off than one with a lower rating to be an issue. YMMVBIW.

If a rod is overpowered for the weight of the lure cast it generally makes timing on the cast more difficult to achieve.  At least that is what I have observed.  One can get used to it, but it is somewhat more difficult to control the cast.  

2 hours ago, MickD said:

If a rod is overpowered for the weight of the lure cast it generally makes timing on the cast more difficult to achieve.  At least that is what I have observed.  One can get used to it, but it is somewhat more difficult to control the cast.  

I’m not referring to the lure rating but to the ability of the rod to keep fish pinned and not rip trebles out.

If the rod isn't forgiving enough for big baits with trebles then switch to mono.  I like 20 lbs big game.  

Yes. The slingshot effect of moderate/slow rods allow a more natural slalom S-swim for these lures.

Question: Is there any disadvantage to having a rod that is overpowered or "too stiff" for throwing 1 - 3 oz swimbaits?

 

Short answer: Yes, absolutely!

 

Long answer: My 0.03 (accounting for my verbosity): I have found action ratings on swimbait rods to be about as useful as an ashtray on a moving motorcycle. 

 

It's merely a starting point for the search at best, and maybe not even that TBH. Some of the rods that are rated as fast, aren't that fast and vice-versa. If you really want to get it better, if not right, without too much trial and error (especially the error part) you'd do best to go and put hands on them and side by side if possible. I'd recommend taking the reel you intend to use with you too, and don't be shy about trying some reels the store has as well.

 

The weight of some reels in combination with particular will affect the balance of 'the system'. I have seen some rods that balance better with a 300 size reel than a 200 size reel even though a 200 size reel might be otherwise fine and vice versa. Battling weight and balance of a swimbait combo is noticeable and can wear you out. But you'll only know how much different it could feel if you try different combinations, especially side by side. Ergonomics of the way a reel feels and the way it works in conjunction with a particular rod is also another factor. The length of the butt section should not be overlooked too. A lot of anglers like the butt section to come to around the back of their elbow when they are holding the reel as they would when retrieving the lure. It tends to make it comfortable to hold the rod, but minimize the possibility it hanging up on the their clothing as they get ready to cast or fight a fish. Again, consider that a starting point as individuals may have their own ideas to some extent and that factor is often initially overlooked. Butt length, or lack thereof for me (at 6'5") can be a deal killer, and what you like could be different from what I like.

 

Then of course there the other probably more important considerations such as how the rods behaves when casting, retrieving and ultimately when hooking and fighting fish. There could be some crossover where you could use a rod that's generally suited for single jig hook baits to throw heavier treble hook baits that up in the higher side of the lure weight rating for the rod where you can apply a lot of pressure to a larger stronger treble hook. Or you could possibly throw smaller single hook baits with a rode generally suited for treble hook baits. For example, a rod (properly) rated for 2-8 ounces with a relatively parabolic action could be possibly be used with a 2 ounce single jig hook soft bait better than it would be for a 4 or 5 ounce single jig hook soft bait on that same rod.

 

I think it's wise to stay in a certain lane with regards to which baits you choose to get started with, and it looks like you are targeting relatively small-ish treble hook baits. So, if you can put the rod you have picked out in your hands and lean into it, you'll get a good idea of the true action and power it has.

 

Is there a particular hard limit constraint you're working with that limits you to rods that are 7'6" or less? When it comes to swimbait rods, that leaves out a lot of rods that would otherwise work well. And, rod length is a factor in casting distance as well as other factors.

 

You can resign yourself to fish around whatever a particular combo gives you, but if you can minimize the issues before you commit, I think you'll be much more satisfied and potentially spend less money or like what you spent the money on more than just taking a stab at it. I'd rather do the hand-wringing up front than having buyers remorse afterwards or just simply not even being aware that I could have done better.

2 hours ago, ska4fun said:

Yes. The slingshot effect of moderate/slow rods allow a more natural slalom S-swim for these lures.

Moderate-fast as stated above, right?

Just now, Ohioguy25 said:

Moderate-fast as stated above, right?

Moderate-moderate or slow.

22 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

Moderate-moderate or slow.

What? I thought I wanted moderate fast so I could still throw big baits and drive a hookset

12 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

What? I thought I wanted moderate fast so I could still throw big baits and drive a hookset

Thats the problem... Excessive stiffness will kill the slalom swim for the lure. The slingshoting of parabolic action gives a very provactive S-swim, a must-have for several swimbaits.

My advice is stay with swimbait rods as they are designed to cast and retrieve those specific lures.

The only 2 brands I am familiar with are Dobyns DC 806SB. Irod IRG805 SB XH.

Both rod rated for Lures 2-8oz &  3-10 oz and both worked great for lures 2 oz to 7 oz. using 25# Armilo mono line. 2 to 7 oz covered all my swimbaits.

Too stiff a swimbait rod will wear you out quickly, the problem action rod launches heavy swimbait with ease.

Any lures under 2 oz I could use my IRG754F frog rod effectively. 

Tom

This thread makes me sad...

1 minute ago, Deleted account said:

This thread makes me sad...

Huh

20 minutes ago, ska4fun said:

Thats the problem... Excessive stiffness will kill the slalom swim for the lure. The slingshoting of parabolic action gives a very provactive S-swim, a must-have for several swimbaits.

And why wouldn’t moderate-fast do that?

8 minutes ago, WRB said:

My advice is stay with swimbait rods as they are designed to cast and retrieve those specific lures.

The only 2 brands I am familiar with are Dobyns DC 806SB. Irod IRG 8 XH.

Tom

They are all almost 8’ long and full cork handles, horrible for kayak fishing.

17 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Huh

And why wouldn’t moderate-fast do that?

They are all almost 8’ long and full cork handles, horrible for kayak fishing.

A stiff 7’4” requires far more effort to cast sitting the a more moderate action longer rod imo. Both rods are EVA handles.

What specific swimbaits are you planning to use?

Tom

12 minutes ago, Ohioguy25 said:

Huh

 

adj.

affected with or expressive of grief, unhappiness, or sorrow.