Riddle Me This ...

[Jigfishn10]

Alright, not sure why I don't know this, but hey, here we are.

 

I see a lot of guys putting on a lower test braid and using a higher test leader...i.e, 15 lb braid with a 20 lb leader. Why? Is this still considered a 15 lb rig?

[islandbass]

It is probably because of the species targeted or perhaps the cover. 

 

Or, using 15# braid enables them to store more line on the spool. A spool will hold more 15# braid than it would 15# mono or fc line and the angler might benefit from such a scenario. 
 

Also, there isn’t an unwritten rule I’m aware that says the main line has to be stronger than the leader, but one of the reasons I would if I had to use a lesser strength leader is for easier break offs when snagged. That said, even using a stronger leader probably won’t matter too much because the weakest point will be the joining knot. 
 

I don’t have an answer to your last question though. That one has me stumped. 🤔 looking forward to seeing what others have to say about this one. 

[DaubsNU1]

Hmmmm....interesting question.

 

I generally run 10lb high visibility braid to 10 or 8lb leaders. 

 

Maybe they are running heavier leader to increase casting distance(?)

[Jigfishn10]

You think that a thicker leader will provide more protection to toothy fish? I'm seriously stumped. I really can't imagine that you're increasing the line strength.

 

@islandbass, thank you. I'm in reaction purgatory  

[bulldog1935]

Since I buy X-braid, no way my leader breaking strength is higher than my braid breaking strength.  

However, I fish a lot of abrasive fish in abrasive conditions, and generally pick larger leader than gets discussed on BR.  

E.g., 19-lb breaking strength YGK V-12 fluoro leader on PE#1.5 X-braid (30-lb breaking strength) - the leader is twice the braid size on Japan silk-thread scale.  

Likewise in the surf, I'll match 40-lb Gold fluoro to 45-lb (PE#2) braid.  

 

Drag set is always 1/4 of weakest link, line, leader, or rod max line rating.  

[Jigfishn10]

8 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

Since I buy X-braid, no way my leader breaking strength is higher than my braid breaking strength.  

However, I fish a lot of abrasive fish in abrasive conditions, and generally pick larger leader than gets discussed on BR.  

E.g., 19-lb breaking strength YGK V-12 fluoro leader on PE#1.5 X-braid (30-lb breaking strength) - the leader is twice the braid size on Japan silk-thread scale.  

Likewise in the surf, I'll match 40-lb Gold fluoro to 45-lb (PE#2) braid.  

 

Drag set is always 1/4 of weakest link, line, leader, or rod max line rating.  

Easy bulldog, construction worker here  

 

So you telling me that your leader is not necessarily larger from a breaking strength, (read lb test) but generally thicker for added protection against abrasive conditions (read toothy critters and rock like conditions)?

[bulldog1935]

Gill plates, skinny oyster shell, etc.  

Often casting to 8"-tall fish in 6" of water.  

[islandbass]

@Jigfishn10: I was trying to convey what bulldog said more completely and not necessarily about fish being toothy. The conjunction “and” instead of “or” was probably the better word to use.
 

The environment might dictate the “stronger” or thicker leader. Btw, I’m with you in reaction purgatory 😇

[FrnkNsteen]

2 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

You think that a thicker leader will provide more protection to toothy fish? I'm seriously stumped. I really can't imagine that you're increasing the line strength.

 

@islandbass, thank you. I'm in reaction purgatory  

^^The few times I have done have been for this reason^^

 

I have run larger flouro leaders up in Ontario fishing for smallies in hopes of better protection against northerns.

[Johnbt]

Strong leaders and line are useful around treetops, stumps, snags and even chain pickeral. Ever fish a place like Briery Creek Reservoir in VA? My usual lines are 17# to 20# nylon and 30# to 65# braid depending on how deep I'm fishing and I don't use a leader. Nothing like worm fishing 20' feet down in the dark on a moonless July night.  My idea of finesse fishing is 15# with a 3/8 spinnerbait and a 3-,4- or 5-inch grub. Fishing in a stump field is sort of like playing pinball.

 

Cypress swamps are fun, too.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

The first 10ft of line often takes the most damage.  It makes no sense to run heavy line throught the entire spool when you don't need it.  Furthermore, braid is very strong.  Most people dont realize how much pressure it takes to break uncompromised 10 or 15lb braid.  5lb may not seem like much, but the difference in casting and handling is very noticeable.

[Johnbt]

"It makes no sense to run heavy line throught the entire spool when you don't need it. "

 

It eliminates the knot, always a weak point and frequently an irritation. I don't know about anyone else, but I am constantly cutting off the first two feet of frayed/nicked line and retying. I may be down to half a spool by the end of the day. Line is a wear item, like tires and brakes and wiper blades.

 

I live by the motto, "If you aren't getting hung up you aren't fishing."   

 

 

See the spinnerbait by the rod? I love spinnerbait fishing way back in the pads where the fish hang out.

[redmeansdistortion]

22 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

You think that a thicker leader will provide more protection to toothy fish?

It does.  With esox species, it isn't the teeth that breaks the leader, it's those razor sharp gill plates.  When I used to target pike specifically many years ago, I'd run a 20-30lb mono leader which was about the strength of the Power Pro I used then.  The pike I was catching usually ranged from hammer handles up into the middle 30" range.  On trips to Northern Canada, I'd run a 50lb leader because those pike are absolute monsters, often getting near the size of muskies.  Where muskies are present, the pike tend to be on the smaller side.  Speaking of, the guys by me fishing for big musky often run an 80 to 100lb fluorocarbon leader.  

 

These days I usually run no bigger than an 8lb leader.  The only exception is in woody rivers, I'll go to 10 or even 12lb on occasion so I have a lesser chance of paying tribute to the logjam gods.

[Jigfishn10]

I would love to tie into a Musky, believe it or not, we don't have them here in the Bay State. They did introduce Tiger Musky but they don't reproduce and I don't think they are around anymore.

 

Yeah, it seems like you and the other folks are confirming my hunch that the bigger leader is more of a protection for break-offs from toothy critters or rocks where I lose a lot of my jigs.

 

Thank you @redmeansdistortion ... BTW, loved reading thru your reel cleaning posts ... very helpful

[redmeansdistortion]

My go-to leaders right now are Varivas fluorocarbon and Maxima Ultragreen mono.  As far as Maxima goes, the leader material is a stiffer formula than what's used in the filler spools, some manufacturers use the same stuff and upcharge for the leader spool.  I keep the 4, 5, and 6lb Maxima leader spools in my pack and 6 and 8lb Varivas.  The diameter of the 6lb Maxima leader is a hair less than JDM 8lb mono.  0.229mm vs 0.235mm, so it's probably breaking somewhere between 7 and 8lb.

[Jigfishn10]

4 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

My go-to leaders right now are Varivas fluorocarbon and Maxima Ultragreen mono.  As far as Maxima goes, the leader material is a stiffer formula than what's used in the filler spools, some manufacturers use the same stuff and upcharge for the leader spool.  I keep the 4, 5, and 6lb Maxima leader spools in my pack and 6 and 8lb Varivas.  The diameter of the 6lb Maxima leader is a hair less than JDM 8lb mono.  0.229mm vs 0.235mm, so it's probably breaking somewhere between 7 and 8lb.

How do you find terminal knot strength on such a stiff leader? I mean, at a dia of a whisker shy of 8 lb mono, I would think it wouldn't that much of a concern until you start climbing up the test strength scale, no?

[redmeansdistortion]

5 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

How do you find terminal knot strength on such a stiff leader? I mean, at a dia of a whisker shy of 8 lb mono, I would think it wouldn't that much of a concern until you start climbing up the test strength scale, no?

As strange as it sounds, I don't.  I choose my leaders according to two criteria; water clarity and structure.  I really only use fluorocarbon in gin clear water and step up to the 8lb in the presence of larger rocks, fallen trees, logjams, and root wads.  In stained waters, I'll run the mono. For instance, the Black River in Northeast Michigan has a high amount of tannins, making the water a dark tea color.  That's how the river got its name.  I typically run my drag between 1 and 2lb, measured with a spring scale.

 

This is my textbook example of where I run 8lb fluorocarbon; the upper Jordan River in Northwest Michigan.  Make note of all of the fallen cedar trees.  The last couple weeks of September I often hit that area for coho salmon since it closes to fishing at the end of the month.  That's just a two week window to catch fresh silver fish.  There are also huge browns on the prowl as well.  Those cohos like to peel drag and lose you in the wood.

 

[Susky River Rat]

When I musky fished I would use 130lb FC leaders with 80 pound braid at times 

 

For bass I use 10-15lb braid and use a 17lb FC leader across the board. Mine is for rocks. The susky pretty much all rock. It helps greatly for this. As far as protection from musky? No way I get bit off just as easy. 

[FishTank]

I have narrowed my leader material down to 10-15lb. I also stopped for the most part using whatever left over line I have from a spool. I have more issues with it. I have more confidence in regular leader material. It just holds up better and the knot strength is better, even when using my favorite Tatsu.  I have been using Seaguar Gold Label, Grand Max, Grand Max FX and Daiwa Satliga X-Link. 

 

I have also been experimenting with some Rio Trout leader, mono and FC. Not sure what to think yet but it worked great for trout and other small fish in the creeks I fished last year. It was gifted to me so the price is right. 

[bulldog1935]

I became a Seaguar (and Umpqua) fluoro fan over Rio fluoro leader.  

Never landed over-30" Alaska rainbow - one came unhooked charging me across the width of the Kenai faster than I could reel.  Another broke off on a Rio fluoro knot.  

Not fair working a decade on and off in Alaska and PB rainbow was in a TX tailwater.  

"we're gonna need a bigger net"

@FishTank - forgot to mention my favorite trout fluoro for strong knots is Frog Hair, which I'm certain was the 5x tippet for the buck just above. (size 22 midge dropper)

.  

[Kev-mo]

I fished straight braid (20 lb.) for like 8 years. No perceived issues. The last several years I've played around with leaders, both pre-made (snap/swivel) and just using a section of mono. Two main reasons for switch were line twist (snap swivel) and better abrasion resistance. I've been using 22 pound test mono for a leader which technically exceeds my mainline breaking strength. 

 

It's working for me, for now...

[J Francho]

I've done it, strictly for abrasion issues. 

[DaveT63]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:36 PM, Johnbt said:

Strong leaders and line are useful around treetops, stumps, snags and even chain pickeral. Ever fish a place like Briery Creek Reservoir in VA? My usual lines are 17# to 20# nylon and 30# to 65# braid depending on how deep I'm fishing and I don't use a leader. Nothing like worm fishing 20' feet down in the dark on a moonless July night.  My idea of finesse fishing is 15# with a 3/8 spinnerbait and a 3-,4- or 5-inch grub. Fishing in a stump field is sort of like playing pinball.

 

 

Not trying to hijack this thread, but I've fished Briery Creek before.  I can't begin to imagine fishing it on a moonless night.  I would definitely end up in the water after hitting one of those stumps.

[Jigfishn10]

All good @DaveT63