This is a great thread on finding offshore fish, but almost entirely focused on structure.

  I would like your input in finding fish that are not relating to structure, or very remotely relating to structure.  Lakes that have shad and herring as primary baitfish often find bass totally focused on bait with little regard for structure.  My home lake has both threadfin and gizzard shad and much of the year, active bass are on bait regardless of location.  It isn't unusual for me to spend an hour motoring before making a cast.  I don't feel particularly efficient yet.  Using sidescan, downscan and 'regular' down scan, I am not comfortable locating bait or bass above about 10mph. (Single screen on the console.)    However, I frequently see guys running 40-50 mph down middle of the lake and pull up abruptly and start making casts on fish.  I'd love to speed up the process.  Sometimes it helps to make sidescan full screen, but I do miss fish not on huge bait schools.

  What is your process?  What speed, what sonar, zigzag, grid, etc?  Any tips or tricks?

  Edit to add that I should have mentioned that I am talking about times when birds and obvious fish activity aren't any help.

This doesn't help you now, but on my small lake there is a shad pattern related to season that has historical consistency, the open water side of pinch points and shade lines dominate the early morning.

 

scott

You know me , I just camp out in the vicinity of good spots and toss a fluke or topwater or paddle tail. They can and do move a lot faster than we do. My chances of

locating a roaming fish with my gas engine then catching them are about as good as the Browns winning the Super Bowl 

Fish eating birds are your friends locating off shore fish feeding on bait schools. Birds can see bait fish flying over them and dive into the bait.

We have Grebes both Western and Piedbills. The Western Grebes are swimmers that stay on the bait and dive very deep. Piedbills are smaller buff ball birds working the shore for shallow bait. Although near the Ocean Gulls, Shearwaters and not a big factor on fresh water. Cormorants and Pelicans usually feed on lager fish and a factor locating bait schools.

You can see the birds at a distance and watch their activity whatever direction the flock on the water is moving and how long they are diving. The birds swallows the bait at the surface before making another dive. The birds feeding activity is my best indicator where the bait is and how to set up to catch bass. Seeing a bird flock sleeping on the water indicates the bait isn’t balled up from fish predators like bass.

Tom

 

 

 

9 hours ago, softwateronly said:

This doesn't help you now, but on my small lake there is a shad pattern related to season that has historical consistency, the open water side of pinch points and shade lines dominate the early morning.

 

scott

Thanks, Scott.  Secondary points have been hot.  Nice, because I can usually find them within a couple hundred yards from one day to the next.  Open water main lake can be a needle in a haystack, but there's very aggressive big girls roaming out there. 

  BTW, @softwateronly, thanks also for all your extremely helpful posts on offshore bassing.  I've definitely learned a lot and improved from putting your info to use.

6 hours ago, WRB-2.0 said:

Fish eating birds are your friends locating off shore fish feeding on bait schools. Birds can see bait fish flying over them and dive into the bait.

We have Grebes both Western and Piedbills. The Western Grebes are swimmers that stay on the bait and dive very deep. Piedbills are smaller buff ball birds working the shore for shallow bait. Although near the Ocean Gulls, Shearwaters and not a big factor on fresh water. Cormorants and Pelicans usually feed on lager fish and a factor locating bait schools.

You can see the birds at a distance and watch their activity whatever direction the flock on the water is moving and how long they are diving. The birds swallows the bait at the surface before making another dive. The birds feeding activity is my best indicator where the bait is and how to set up to catch bass. Seeing a bird flock sleeping on the water indicates the bait isn’t balled up from fish predators like bass.

Tom

 

 

 

Thanks, Tom.  Birds haven't done much for me here.  There just a few cormorants and couple times a year, there will be hundreds of gulls for a day or two.  We get a few pairs of loons in the winter, but they just lie to me all the time.

You could try trolling, while looking for birds and using your electronics.  I am always fishing structure or cover, but I catch a surprising amount of bass trolling a crankbait behind my kayak while I move to a new location.  I always peddle back to where I hooked the trolling fish, but rarely will catch another one,. Some of my biggest bass have hit while I was trolling in the middle of nowhere.

Knowing what type bait fish are being target by bass is the 1st step.

Threadfin Shad are phytoplankton eaters basically a tiny plant that relies on sunlight to feed.

Gizzard Shad are zooplankton eaters basically a tiny animal that relies on cover to feed.

Perch and Crappie are common pelagic fish that bass target that also eat small Shad or minnows. Herring are not Shad but like Gizzard Shad eat zooplankton.

WHY is the bait off shore? Usually the plankton has drifted off shore and the food chain follows.

Bottom structure affects the flow if the water column and therefore the movement of plankton. Trying to locate off shore bass you need to find there prey source. I use birds and my sonar to determine how deep to look and where bottom structure elements come into play with water currents. Yes, lakes have slight currents from wind usually or dam flows.

Tom 

PS, trolling was how the World Record Smallmouth bass was caught. Buck Perry trolled his Spoon Plugs!

On 10/15/2025 at 8:09 PM, king fisher said:

You could try trolling, while looking for birds and using your electronics.  I am always fishing structure or cover, but I catch a surprising amount of bass trolling a crankbait behind my kayak while I move to a new location.  I always peddle back to where I hooked the trolling fish, but rarely will catch another one,. Some of my biggest bass have hit while I was trolling in the middle of nowhere.

 

I took your advice yesterday and put my winning fish in the boat trolling. Did the same as you mentioned when moving from one spot to another across a lake my co-angler tried casting during the move and caught nothing. I used a rat'l trap to get deeper and it worked.

 

I trolled along the edges of cover to the new spot because I had seen a few schooling bass busting up along that cover edge line and decided to follow it to new spot.

 

I think my co-angler will quickly learn to do it as well since my one trolling fish gave me the most fish in the boat yesterday. But I did take note the hook was not in the fish mouth. Hooked on the outside, but it still counts!

 

Trolling can be awesome!

 

Yesterday was a tough day even tho' the solunar calendar said it was a 92% day. The fish just were not cooperating. We managed 5 total. I caught 3. Other fishermen at boat ramp had similar low numbers. Usually this lake can triple that or more. Even the schoolies were no where near what they usually are.

 

Curious what some of you use to troll with? The lake I was on has some deep water for Florida with holes over 42 feet deep. So I chose a sinking rat'l trap to get down near 8 feet deep. In shallow lakes I use a rapala floating minnow lure and can get down 4 feet or so.

 

My co-angler saw my rod bend on that fish and he said "did you get hung up?" I said no, fish on! I could see the wheels turning in his head. I bet he will take up trolling now since that one fish cost him dinner.

1 hour ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

Curious what some of you use to troll with

I only troll while moving from one location to the next.  I usually troll with whatever I already have tied on.  Rattle traps, a variety of crankbaits, jerkbaits, and inline spinners have all been effective.

Shad are usually looking for cleaner water and then the current is usually important because it’s oxygenating the water and moving the plankton.  Cleaner water allows for more photosynthesis and the phytoplankton can bloom nicely and the shad will really get hot on those blooms.

 

Water quality is imperative this time of year and shad will be anywhere they can be that has survivable dissolved oxygen levels.

 

Locating some shad and some bass groups is great and then you can either camp on them or rotate the schools/areas until they become active.

 

So loosely I’d be looking for current (ripples/dam/creeks), clean water and lots of sun right now.  Bass will definitely just follow shad around but it seems like they “activate” more often when the shad drifts into some kind of depth change or cover!

 

favorite baits to troll?

 

Carolina rig/drop shot/heavy jig/diving crankbait

Pat the lake I was on yesterday was different in that I found baitfish everywhere. I would cast to a spot and watch baitfish skitter and jump out of the water thinking my lure was a fish coming for them.

 

Those baitfish were in shallow open water, shallow cover, in open deep water and deep water cover as well. I was amazed at how many there was and how spread out all across the lake they were. Bass were able to feed just about anywhere. I was kind of surprised at how much schooling action was taking place way out in the middle of the lake over deep water with no cover to hide them.

 

So this presented a confusing situation. All of my fish yesterday were caught by observing a feeding bass and casting to it. All the normal ideas and methods were basically out the window. It was a day of winging it to put fish in the boat.

 

4 out of 5 fish were caught by observing actively feeding fish. I cast to one and it hit my lure and I missed it and the tail of my lure was ripped off, and while I was switching lures my co-angler cast to same fish and caught it. And then had a smirky smile for having done it. But in like turn, I did the same to him and caught a fish he was trying to catch. One fish was actively feeding behind me and my co-angler alerted me to it and as I was spinning around I was making an over my head lob back that way and darned if I did not catch it.

 

Following baitfish around was simply not possible with them being everywhere. All we could do was take advantage of seeing actively feeding fish. Nothing else was working except for my one trolling fish. But like Swamp Girl wrote in her article, its about the adventure itself. We had a good time regardless once we started catching but it took awhile.

 

Do any of you come across conditions in lakes where baitfish are plentiful everywhere? Skittering across the surface on most casts? Yesterday was unusual for sure.

This time of year shallow flats have the best oxygen content, and usually the cleanest water (unless of course you got wind blowing bad stuff into a flat).  A lot of lakes start to turn over this time of year, but I know in Florida it’s a little different.   I think Mr @Choporoz fishes in NC - I figured he’d be able to use a few of my observations potentially.  🙂

On 10/15/2025 at 8:36 AM, Choporoz said:

 

T  Using sidescan, downscan and 'regular' down scan, I am not comfortable locating bait or bass above about 10mph. (Single screen on the console.)    However, I frequently see guys running 40-50 mph down middle of the lake and pull up abruptly and start making casts on fish.  I'd love to speed up the process.  Sometimes it helps to make sidescan full screen, but I do miss fish not on huge bait schools.

  What is your process?  What speed, what sonar, zigzag, grid, etc?  Any tips or tricks?

  Edit to add that I should have mentioned that I am talking about times when birds and obvious fish activity aren't any help.

I'll just talk about the electronic aspect of your post.  Guys running 40 to 50 mph are not using sidescan or downscan, they are using 2D sonar ( probably what you call ''regular'') .  Sidescaning and downscaning is done at low speed.  The guys that are going fast are probably looking for bait balls or just structure with bait close by.  

To find interesting structure, I first look at mapping,  then use 2D to locate the beginning of the structure, then use sidescan at low speed to get a general idea of the lay.  Then I use 2D or down imaging to find fish relating to structure.  To find roaming fish or suspended fish, I use Forward Facing Sonar.  Like it has been said, birds help also.

It is my impression that gizzard shad spend the night near cover and migrate toward open water around first light. Is this specific to my water or a general rule or just luck?

 

scott

14 minutes ago, softwateronly said:

It is my impression that gizzard shad spend the night near cover and migrate toward open water around first light. Is this specific to my water or a general rule or just luck?

 

scott

 

I think it depends on the type of structure and water clarity and how sunny it is and a BUNCH of other stuff.

 

There are almost always some gizzard shad that stay in the lily pads up the lake and often very large ones - but then you’ll always have some in the shade of the bluffs and bridges and rip rap and then you’ll have the ones that relate to the main channel etc.

 

I have definitely seen gizzard shad go nuts in a creek and then pull back to the main channel as the sun rises.

 

i have also seen them tuck tight to the bank following the shade lines on windy sunny days.  
 

I have also found them in 48 degree 2 foot muddy water with the wind blowing Winn Dixie into a pocket of pad stems.

 

Gizzards are cool and weird.

19 hours ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

Pat the lake I was on yesterday was different in that I found baitfish everywhere. I would cast to a spot and watch baitfish skitter and jump out of the water thinking my lure was a fish coming for them.

 

Those baitfish were in shallow open water, shallow cover, in open deep water and deep water cover as well. I was amazed at how many there was and how spread out all across the lake they were. Bass were able to feed just about anywhere. I was kind of surprised at how much schooling action was taking place way out in the middle of the lake over deep water with no cover to hide them.

 

So this presented a confusing situation. All of my fish yesterday were caught by observing a feeding bass and casting to it. All the normal ideas and methods were basically out the window. It was a day of winging it to put fish in the boat.

 

4 out of 5 fish were caught by observing actively feeding fish. I cast to one and it hit my lure and I missed it and the tail of my lure was ripped off, and while I was switching lures my co-angler cast to same fish and caught it. And then had a smirky smile for having done it. But in like turn, I did the same to him and caught a fish he was trying to catch. One fish was actively feeding behind me and my co-angler alerted me to it and as I was spinning around I was making an over my head lob back that way and darned if I did not catch it.

 

Following baitfish around was simply not possible with them being everywhere. All we could do was take advantage of seeing actively feeding fish. Nothing else was working except for my one trolling fish. 

 

Do any of you come across conditions in lakes where baitfish are plentiful everywhere? Skittering across the surface on most casts? Yesterday was unusual for sure.

All the time.  Several consecutive weeks every fall, especially. 

 

You certainly can try to cast at every sign of bait and catch fish, but it isn't particularly efficient.  When bait is everywhere, but bass aren't visually disturbing the surface, I spend more time moving and watching electronics.  It has taken me a few years, but even without FFS, I can sometimes get an idea if bass are actively feeding on bait schools.  The bigger marks will frequently be anywhere in the water column with lots of variations in depth. Less active, they can be seen hanging below or off to the side....frequently following along the bait, but not chasing.  

  Once you get on more or less reliable pattern of throwing at visible bait or visible blowups, try to have a couple/few things available to gauge what the bigger ones are doing.  For example, I had a day where a spook was catching fish whenever casted near nervous water.  Fun.  But they were all under 2#.  Figured that was the makeup of this school.  But then tossed a big spoon and even 3/4oz weighted plastic, bigger fish were caught 12-18' under the aggressive smaller ones.  One day last week, I was on bait so thick my DS screen was one big blob covering entire screen.  Nothing would touch topwater, small ones came bouncing metal lures off bottom at 21', but finally got big ones triggered by swimming 4in. swimbait about 5' below the surface.  Wish I had better data or info, but anecdotal stuff starts to add up slowly..at least in my head 😀

19 hours ago, Pat Brown said:

This time of year shallow flats have the best oxygen content, and usually the cleanest water (unless of course you got wind blowing bad stuff into a flat).  A lot of lakes start to turn over this time of year, but I know in Florida it’s a little different.   I think Mr @Choporoz fishes in NC - I figured he’d be able to use a few of my observations potentially.  🙂

Certainly.   Ty.  I do a lot of thinking about water movement...and structure... and winds.... a bit about clarity....but haven't ever gotten close to putting any of it together to predict shad locations. 

14 hours ago, Reel said:

I'll just talk about the electronic aspect of your post.  Guys running 40 to 50 mph are not using sidescan or downscan, they are using 2D sonar ( probably what you call ''regular'') .  Sidescaning and downscaning is done at low speed.  The guys that are going fast are probably looking for bait balls or just structure with bait close by.  

To find interesting structure, I first look at mapping,  then use 2D to locate the beginning of the structure, then use sidescan at low speed to get a general idea of the lay.  Then I use 2D or down imaging to find fish relating to structure.  To find roaming fish or suspended fish, I use Forward Facing Sonar.  Like it has been said, birds help also.

Ty.  I feel I know the structure fairly well - but maybe I am missing something and the bait sometimes does have more relation to structure than I recognize. When guys are ripping down the lake and pull-up over 60FOW, drop the TM, look around for a couple minutes and start casting and catching, I am just sort of dumbfounded.  I am burning gas and time feeling around in the dark.

13 hours ago, Pat Brown said:

 

I think it depends on the type of structure and water clarity and how sunny it is and a BUNCH of other stuff.

 

There are almost always some gizzard shad that stay in the lily pads up the lake and often very large ones - but then you’ll always have some in the shade of the bluffs and bridges and rip rap and then you’ll have the ones that relate to the main channel etc.

 

I have definitely seen gizzard shad go nuts in a creek and then pull back to the main channel as the sun rises.

 

i have also seen them tuck tight to the bank following the shade lines on windy sunny days.  
 

I have also found them in 48 degree 2 foot muddy water with the wind blowing Winn Dixie into a pocket of pad stems.

 

Gizzards are cool and weird.

Agreed 100%.  And LMB are weird, too.  One day they will ignore 1,000 gizzards snoozing on top of them...and next day, they'll be chasing them all over a creek.  With such a variety of bait, it'd be nice to know more about how to predict what the hot menu item is today.  Or maybe not, since it is just as hard to predict what the bait might be doing this afternoon.  

I have heard that LMB are opportunistic and while some fixate on gizzard shad - most fixate on key parts of the lake where seasonally - there is abundant nutrition that comes in various forms.

 

Knowing how the various menu items use the key areas seasonally may be the key to unlocking the door for that area.

 

I think the bigger bass do eat lots of little gizzard shad plenty of the time - but I think they know it pays to hang around gizzards because of the occasional 6” crappie or redear they get to snarf etc so it may be that some bass only activate around gizzard shad when the shad are being hunted by crappie or smaller bass or sunfish because for the most part they are unconcerned with the shad and use them more as bait.

 

I think knowing what they look like when they are active vs not active is a BIG time advantage and it’s not always as simple as “the bait is balled up - it’s a good time to fish for the bass”

 

I think sometimes the bass are on the prowl but the bait is spread out in the water column and sometimes the bait is balled up around panfish and there’s no big bass nearby.

 

What I have heard over and over again from podcasts and YouTube channels where people who are very good at electronics analyze the returns - when bait gets close to “edges” (which can mean a LOT of things - be open minded) things happen.  Regardless of conditions etc

 

when bait makes the mistake of getting a little too close to a grass line or a ledge or a hump or a stump or a leaf mat or some lily pads or a saddle or a ditch - BOOM - they’re supper and sometimes it can start a frenzy that lasts 30-45 minutes in one little spot.

 

Rotating key pieces of structure is how the dudes with FFS beat my butt in local tournaments!  You just gotta know what it looks like when the shad is getting stupidly close to the key ambush points and that’s usually when the big girls get frisky.

Pat I need you down here in Florida to pick apart my lakes and solve the mysteries! 😁

 

I got a long list of lakes for ya! And then a couple of rivers! From dark water rivers like St. Johns and Little Econ, to crystal clear spring fed rivers like Rainbow, Wekiva and others.

 

It would be interesting to see how you analyze some of the lakes and rivers.

 

One lake I have been fishing lately- Lake Brooklyn in a small one traffic light town- is suffering from dropping water levels- and I mean a huge level drop like 11 feet. I had hoped less water means more fish congregating in less water would increase feeding competition, but have not seen this to be true yet.

 

If any of you need a good north Florida lake to break the cabin fever give Lake Brooklyn a try. The boat ramp is pieced together locally, but useable for now. They have extended it 3 times because of dropping water levels.

 

Today my fishing buddy wants to go to Lake Samson in another small Florida town. Remote, clean, clear lakes filled with bass. Each one very different from another. But have some great Florida bass fishing for sure.

 

Right now I am working on trying to unlock the northern end of the St. Johns river where freshwater meets saltwater.

 

There are LMB and all the freshwater fish mixed in with saltwater fish like reds and black drum all mixed in together. Its tidal and is kind of tough to figure out sometimes but I have some good fishing buddies to point me in the right direction for this area.

 

As this weather cools schools of big reds move up and down the river so chasing them can be productive. I want to put some reds on the grille! And my 12 year old son wants to try and beat my personal best red 38". So I want to put him on some big reds real soon.

 

All the local guys say to forget the electronics because the water is so shallow often less than 8 feet deep. They say to just follow the birds. So I am about to switch from LMB to reds and maybe do some shrimping as well when they run.

 

These schools of reds are offshore and not relating to cover. Once you find a large school of them it is one fish after another almost on every cast until they wear you out.

 

 

23 hours ago, softwateronly said:

It is my impression that gizzard shad spend the night near cover and migrate toward open water around first light. Is this specific to my water or a general rule or just luck?

 

scott

Young Gizzard Shad like Threadfin Shad eat phytoplankton and the plankton scatters during darkness so the Shad seek the shelter of cover until daylight that when the phytoplankton gathers up.

Adult Gizzard Shad eat both types of plankton, tiny insets, debris and sand to help digestion. Muddy water contains food particles the Gizzard eat and could be anywhere unlike Threadfin Shad needs sunlight.

Tom

Adult gizzard shad also eat little gizzard shad and little bass and little panfish and little crappie - which is one of the reasons people advise against stocking them on small ponds without large predator fish already taking up residence!

Bill Murphy before he passed away from skin cancer was working on what he called the last frontier “off shore suspended” bass. Bill knew they were out there from his time working with tracking studies. A big group of big bass suspended off shore in over 300’ deep water. Nothing detectable to determine why these bass grouped up in that location but they did. Tracking showed big bass would leave and others join the group.
Bill caught a few of these big bass trolling a home made trout lure through the group. Bill said he was on a break though to locate other groups of big bass on various lakes and share this frontier but never got the chance to finish his study. 
FFS would have been a magic tool for Murphy! 
Trolling is deadly targeting off shore suspended bass, a technique that worked for decades before tournament fishing outlawed it.

Tom 

There are flats that I fish that have a well defined drop off. I rarely catch bass on the drop or suspended in open water   but catch bass and sometimes big one close to the drop off. FFS would be the way to go. I only have 2d sonar but rely on it to keep me directly on top of the drop as  I cast shallower with cranks and Carolinas. That  allows me to fish quickly. If a bass is hooked I'll drop a buoy and fish the area more thoughly.

There are some transducer types and settings that are somewhat conducive to this. Think running on pad at low speed and seeing your 2d screen suddenly cloud up with arches.

 

The more likely scenario is it's a feature of some sort. Channel bend or intersection regardless of depth. Foundation, roadbeds, hard spots, rocks/boulders, brush or cane piles, deep humps, timber. Some lakes have submerged springs. I've found a lot of off the beaten path stuff and areas where fish stack up just due to the way the lake current flows just by idling the channels from main lake all the way to the back, as well as riding around on the trolling motor on 10 livescoping around.

 

The best way to learn it is to devote a section of your fishing time to simply looking around at offshore stuff, and looking at that same stuff in different seasons and conditions. I do think scoping speeds up this process a lot since you can literally follow fish around to get a beat on what they're doing out there.