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Posted

Well, as I fully expected, the media is already pulling gun control advocates out of the woodwork who are more than happy to exploit the VA Tech tragedy for there own nefarious purposes. Watch the dog and pony show as it progresses in the aftermath of this situation.

Let us all pray for the injured, the affected families and all those who were touched by this, but don't let them shame you into submission. Stand firm.

  • Super User
Posted

Stand firm, but lower your profile a tad. Those that oppose the Second Amendment are a small minority whose opinion you will never change. Our objective is to maintain the support of the vast majority of Americans that are not interested or uncommitted. Say and write what you like when preaching to the choir, we all love that stuff, but be gentle with the general public. These situations are not the time to flaunt the colors. I am NOT suggesting giving an inch, but being a little lower keyed right now is probably in our best interest.

Posted

I expected this too C.  Didnt take long at all.

I cant refrain from posting this so here it is.

Why are they focusing on firearms not Immigration.  From what I read he immigrated in 92 from South Korea.  Well wouldnt this make all Immigrants bad people just like since he used a gun.  All gun owners are bad people.  So should we ban all immigration?

Ok enough soap boxing now.

  • Super User
Posted
Stand firm, but lower your profile a tad. Those that oppose the Second Amendment are a small minority whose opinion you will never change. Our objective is to maintain the support of the vast majority of Americans that are not interested or uncommitted. Say and write what you like when preaching to the choir, we all love that stuff, but be gentle with the general public. These situations are not the time to flaunt the colors. I am NOT suggesting giving an inch, but being a little lower keyed right now is probably in our best interest.

Good advice Kent. The bible says "be as wary as a snake and as harmless as a dove".

Ronnie

Guest the_muddy_man
Posted

I hyave such confusion about this gun control situation. i am about to go deer hunting for the first time in my life. i am being taught how to handle a rifle by very responsible sportsman. I nebver gave it a second thought growing up in Brooklyn,

There is a different problem in Brooklyn. I am not going to go to VA Tech, different weapons and Im not into knee jerk reations

 I have a couple of cops in my family as well as a few from the neighborhood that i grew up in. Cop shootinngs and Killings are on the rise. Do you know whats it like when you here cop shot and you start checking the airwaves  WHAT PRECIENT, WHAT DETAIL WHO WAS IT. I have talked with Cops in Brooklyn who have been in situations where they were under automatic fire OUT GUNNED and fearing for their lives. What do we do to help these guy?

 I know the argument that thugs dont register their guns and I know the Gun Manufacturers promte the NRA line NO COMPROMISE but these cops need our consideration. I do not have an answer and I continue to find a place I am comfortable with.

Why people need grenade launchers, rapid fire machine pistols and stuff like that is beyond me. I do not know if denying them is right thing either WE NEED SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE and i still do not know where that lies.

i belive in the 2nd amendment Do you really think in todays world , the intent of that amendment to prevent Tyranny and for people to arm themselves for thier protection entitles all kinds of weapons to be in the publics hands completley unristricted Thats the part of the argument that i dont buy

So I am very undecided and Im not gonna use VA Tech as a platform

  • Super User
Posted

Hey Muddy,

Try to imagine this scenerio....

Instead of hundreds of helpless students cowering behind their desks waiting to be slaughtered by a lunatic.  Imagine one armed college professor or one law enforcement student with a weapon and the courage and decency to put others safety ahead of his own (a hero in a cowardly world) that may have stopped this nut case before he could KILL THIRTY TWO PEOPLE. There are such people out there. They are the cops and friends that you knew in Brooklyn. JMHO

Ronnie

Guest the_muddy_man
Posted

Thanks Ron i have not made up my mind on this and i cant come to a resolution soon i have been thinking about this for a long time now

Dominick

Posted

RW, you are absolutely correct.  I only meant when confronted, don't nod your head yes and mumble something just to get out of the conversation.  Also, if the lawmakers try to actually change something, then go into full attack mode.  I don't mean now is the time to go on the offensive, of course not.

Posted

Muddy,

I applaud your courage.  Thank you for standing up and expressing your opinion in the face of so much opposition.  I think it's great that you admit you are unsure about the situation and you haven't fully formed your opinion.  If you need absolutely any information (by that I mean gun nut propaganda  ;)), I'll be happy to help.

  • Super User
Posted
So I am very undecided and Im not gonna use VA Tech as a platform

I appreciate that Muddy! The tragedy has devastated everyone around me.

Guest the_muddy_man
Posted

Im sorry for the loss and grief to your community

Posted

Muddy,

I can certainly see the dilema. I Think since Maxim invented the machine gun, it like anything else can be motivated for good, or for evil. Unfortunatly I dont ever think we will be able to control the evil side. If a person is going to chose to not abide by law, they will always find a way to be armed, illegally.

The solution may lie in making sure our law enforcement is protected, and well armed. In the case of the Bank of America Robbery, in Hollywood, some years ago. The Police were flat out out gunned.

There are very stringent regulation in place to own, possess or fire fully auto weapons. Unfortunatly, the criminals dont take much stock in that law. These things are hardly "unrestricted". I had an ffl and let me tell ya....it was expensive, and a real bear to get.

Something that struck me in this case in VA. That was not an illegal weapon, it was purchased legally, at least the 9mm was, the .22 who knows. Despite our best efforts to regulate, when evil dwells in someones heart there will always be a method.

Something personally that I have thought is that there needs to be much tougher laws for those who use guns to commit crimes, no more bs, no more *****-footing around. You use a gun in a crime it is a capitol offense, mandatory life, and no parole....end of discussion.

This should be mandatory!! No more money exchanges between judges and lawyers on the golf course. If you are convicted, see ya, and wouldnt wanna be ya. I dont give a fiddlers hoot if ya fire it or not. The lamset excuse in the world is the old "well I never intended to hurt anyone" make a jury buy that and you just turned murder into manslaughter....ridiculous.

Muddy, buddy its a tough situation for sure, God bless our troops and law enforcement! May they always come home safe!!!

Recon

  • Super User
Posted

Kent, I agree with you 100%

Muddy, as a young man I used to hunt a lot (ducks, geese, dove, quail).  Then one day in my late  teens I was invited to go deer hunting.  I loaded my shotgun with 00 buckshot and proceeded to the hunt.  The conditions were generally miserable, meaning an ideal day for deer hunting.  Now you get to hear my confession. After hours sitting in the stand, a buck walked right into my clearing.  To me, he was such a beautiful, magnificent animal that I could not bring myself to shoot him.  I did not take the shot, and I have never hunted for anything but fish since that day.

Posted

I agree with RW and I respect Muddy Man's opinion as well.  

The thing about gun control is that people have this broad minded opinion that if they have innocent people turn in all their guns that crime will just disappear.  This is not true.  Take a look at Chicago and cities who have very strict gun control laws.  Crime, murder, and lots of it.  Now take a look at Charleston, WV, where I'm from.  Rarely are the words murder heard around here.  The reason?  There are no harsh gun laws against law abiding citizens.

Guns are not evil, and gun haters need to understand that.  Criminals will use anything to do their causes, whether it be a gun, sword, clubs, or their fists.

  • BassResource.com Administrator
Posted

I absolutely agree with RW, and cannot/will not argue with Muddy.  

I think the point was madw about the majority/minority ratio.  The minority have a nearly impossible task of changing the Bill of Rights.  :D

I'm more concerned about the way the world percieves America.  Those of you who have been overseas know that America, in general, is viewed as a nation of lawless, violent, selfish citizens. Yes, there are absolutely exceptions, so don't start citing them.  I'm just saying as a general rule, America doesn't have a great global image right now.  This whole incident just adds fuel to that thinking.

I could continue on that thought, but then I would diving into world politics - against my own dang rule!  LOL!

  • Super User
Posted

Muddy I am right there with you on this one. I have no clue which is "right".  I can see both sides. It really scares me though that there are tons of nuts out there that can get guns they have no business having.

Posted

A big part of me is saying "stay away from this thread" but I think I would be remiss to avoid a comment.  I am in agreement with Glenn and RW on this one.  I really think now is not the time to go grandstanding our position as gun owners.  Now before you jump up and say "that's not what I'm doing" let me explain...As with many national tragedies there are always immediate activists that jump in and demand rapid social changes...these nuts continue to make life difficult for the rest of us more level-headed rational Americans.  I think if we let these gun control blow-hards preach themselves hoarse we will come out better in the end.  I'm advocating passive resistance on this one.  I think this is not the kind of issue we need to debate a need for gun control over.  These emotionally charged arguments fizzle quickly.  Let's keep with the prayers for those affected and live to fight the gun control battle head on another day.

Posted

Being in Law Enforcement, I too have mixed emotions much like Muddy's.

I was a sportsman / hunter long before my career began.

I often ask myself if I had to choose, what would my choice be? I support the Second Amendment but where do we as a society draw the line? I definately do not want to face an armed nut job sporting an AR-15 or any gun for that matter.

Leaves me quite speechless at times :-/

  • Super User
Posted
...My stance is that a inanimate object never killed anyone, period...Evidently there were tons of signs that this guy was a loose cannon... Just think of all the others running around this country just like him. In my opinion its just another good reason why responsible citizens should be allowed to own a gun for protection.

"Talk not loudly, but intelligently."  

That's my stand, too,

  • Super User
Posted

When Cain killed Able he did not have a gun  ;)

Posted

A guest interviewed on O'Reilly last night had the same opinion as Alpster, that if someone had been carrying their own firearm, things may have been very different.  He further stated that in the end, we, not the police, are responsible for our own protection. When you think about it, police, for the most part, do not prevent a crime from happening, they are there to try and sort it all out afterwards and try to catch the perpetrator.  Unfortunately, the fear of being shot and killed would not have deterred Hui, since this was his ultimate goal, but perhaps many of the innocent could have been spared. I grieve for the families of the victims but firmly believe we must stand strong and not cave to those who would take away our ability to protect ourselves and our families.

Posted

The warning signs for this guy were in what he wrote to the extent that he had been sent to counseling.

Did the Counselor put him on drugs or was he on drugs?

This guy seemed from all accounts to be much like Eric Harris of Columbine infamy.  It makes me wonder if the guy had been taking any antidepressant related drug like Eric Harris. Harris wanted to join the United States Marine Corps, but his application was rejected shortly before the shootings because he was taking the drug Luvox® (Fluvoxamine maleate, an SSRI antidepressant) that he was required to take as part of anger management therapy.  It was in his system when he died.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold>

Five of the parents sued the maker of Luvox.  Solvay Pharmaceuticals Inc. makes the drug to treat obsessive-compulsive disorder and depression.

<http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/10/22/national/main315368.shtml>

This is a good article on Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. "At last we know why the Columbine killers did it."

<http://www.slate.com/id/2099203>

<http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/18/virginiatechshooting/main2697827.shtml>

(CBS/AP) The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead was as an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service.

Was Cho Seung-Hui on drugs or had he been on drugs?  Was a drug supplied by Va. Tech.  I haven't heard the news media asking this question.

If he was, maybe we should look to more stringent control of drugs.  A psychopath will kill with whatever is at hand, fertilizer, propane, dynamite, vehicle, gasoline, or fire.  The list is endless.

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