Line question

[thinkingredneck]

I have read a lot and am confused.  I fish very stained and often muddy water in MS.  I have been using straight braid, 50 lb On my baitcaster and 20 lb on my spinning.  I fish from a kayak and only take a couple of rods, though I have several.  Anyway, a kid on the college bass team suggested fluorocarbon.   Other people suggest hybrid or mono.  I bought some 25 lb Maxon chameleon on sale for 5 bucks.  I have some 20 lb big Game, 12 lb yozuri hybrid and 10 lb Segar red label Fluorocarbon.  I have some bright yellow salt mono in 12 and 3o lb.  I usually fish a St Croix MOJO bass  MF, or Lamiglass heavy fast  or Ozark fast with BC and a Tourney special or Fenwick medium or ugly stick spinning.  I fish mainly with worms, spinnerbaits, swimbaits and jigs. I also want to throw some hair jigs this year.  I fish plastic worms a lot. Some frogs.  Suggestions for versatile set up, heavy on plastics and spinnerbaits.  Sorry to be long winded but wanted to be clear.

[DaubsNU1]

I've been fishing straight braid on my casting rods for 30+ years...started with IronThread way back in the day (no longer made). Now running 20lb PowerPro green.

 

Used to run mono on my spinning rods...hated it...found this forum, tried straight fluoro and did not like it one bit. Others her suggested braid to leader. 

 

Now I run 10lb bright yellow PowerPro braid to fluoro leader on all my spinning rods. Love it. Alberto knot. 

 

Works well for me. Experiment and find what works best for you. 

 

Good luck, and tight lines! 

[softwateronly]

I'm in a similar camp as @DaubsNU1.  Braid to leader on everything in cold water, and some go straight braid when the weeds are up.  Modified Alberto and FG are my connection knots.  I find braid as a mainline and multiple different materials and strengths for leaders give me an efficient and cheap way to control my presentations.  

 

scott

[casts_by_fly]

9 hours ago, thinkingredneck said:

I have read a lot and am confused.  I fish very stained and often muddy water in MS.  I have been using straight braid, 50 lb On my baitcaster and 20 lb on my spinning.  I fish from a kayak and only take a couple of rods, though I have several.  Anyway, a kid on the college bass team suggested fluorocarbon.   Other people suggest hybrid or mono.  I bought some 25 lb Maxon chameleon on sale for 5 bucks.  I have some 20 lb big Game, 12 lb yozuri hybrid and 10 lb Segar red label Fluorocarbon.  I have some bright yellow salt mono in 12 and 3o lb.  I usually fish a St Croix MOJO bass  MF, or Lamiglass heavy fast  or Ozark fast with BC and a Tourney special or Fenwick medium or ugly stick spinning.  I fish mainly with worms, spinnerbaits, swimbaits and jigs. I also want to throw some hair jigs this year.  I fish plastic worms a lot. Some frogs.  Suggestions for versatile set up, heavy on plastics and spinnerbaits.  Sorry to be long winded but wanted to be clear.

 

I fish mono on some rods.  I fish straight braid on some rods.  I fish braid to leader on some rods.  Here's why I do what I do:

 

straight mono- user friendly, easy handling, low visibility, little bit of stretch (flexibility in the total rod and line setup).  I've fished mostly mono since I started fishing and its what I like best.  There is a very wide range of mono out there.  Chameleon and big game are harder and stiffer, something like sunline supernatural or Suffix Elite are super soft.  Once you learn what you like in line you can choose accordingly.  For me, that's supernatural for most things.  Very thin diameter for its rating (most monofilament tests much higher than rated so buy mono based on diameter not rating), limp, good coating and good knots.  The downsides are that its soft and prone to abrasion (which isn't a problem for me since we don't have heavy cover to throw it in mostly.

 

Straight braid- I use straight braid for three reasons: (1) because I want a zero stretch hookset like a frog in heavy grass after a long cast and (2) throwing lures in grass, and (3) because I'm fishing a rod that's softer/slower and don't want the stretch of mono on top of that.  The first is easy.  When you bomb a frog 40 yards across a grass mat and a fish hits it immediately, mono is going to have enough stretch that it will affect your hookups.  If I'm throwing a frog or toad on mono I'm going to limit myself to closer in work.  With braid I don't worry about how far I'm casting it- so long as you take up the slack before swinging you can get a good hookset.  The second is common here.  We have a TON of grass in all of our lakes and thinner braid (30 lb) works great for ripping swim jigs through it.  Similar if you're pitching plastics into the holes or heavy pads.  The third is a 'me problem' but is instructive.  I have a particular rod that I've never thought was 'quite right'.  Soft tip, good butt, but the mid section was just a bit mushy.  I tried a lot of things on it and caught a bunch of fish, but when I put 30 lb braid on it the rod just came alive.  Its my #1 setup for lipless crankbaits that way.  Because of the softer middle I don't worry about overpowering fish with braid and trebles.  But the no stretch of braid means I can feel every little tick of grass, rod, or fish.  Its instructive because if you're going to fish braid you need to think about the rod and what you're fishing also.  Moving baits (like spinnerbaits) with fast actions and braid can be tricky.  There is no 'give' in the system.  So if you're picking braid, then go with a little softer rod.

 

Braid to leader- this is my spinning setup.  No stretch, excellent feedback of the bottom, versatile for many lures by altering your leader.  Braid is limp on the reel so never any issues with line twist.  You might say the best of both worlds or the limitations of both.  I'll occasionally throw braid to leader on a baitcaster if I'm in clear water and worried about it or if throwing topwaters and that's the rod I put them on.  Mostly not though.

[papajoe222]

Water clarity sounds like it isn't a concern for you and as long as you're comfortable fishing with braid, I say stick with it. 

As for combos...............................

[wvhunt]

I’ve always been hesitant to use straight braid, but I used to know some hardcore smallmouth fisherman that used nothing but straight braid and swore that they hadn’t found the fish to be line sensitive.

[tunaman]

Fished a lot of straight braid when I lived in NorCal and fished the Cali Delta. What you spec’d is close to what I used for the donkeys and techniques there.

 

However, I’m wondering why you feel you need such heavy braid where you’re at? Is there giants, or gnarly cover that you’re fishing?
 

I suspect you’d be far better off downsizing your braid if you can… I currently use 10-15 pound braid on my spinning gear, along with a flouro leader, and 15-20# braid on my baitcasters (also with leaders). I’m fishing Mohave and Mead, which are notoriously clear, so different use cases, but I’d bet you could downsize and get better casting performance while maintaining resistance to break-offs and getting far more bites.

 

Given that your water is extremely dirty you can likely get away without a leader, but the smaller braid will sink more (float less) and cast further.

[thinkingredneck]

It is very gnarly

[NittyGrittyBoy]

Both pictures are the same river. It's constantly changing. For a long time I fished braid exclusively. It worked just fine in both conditions. But overtime I experimented, tried different lines and settled on abrazx. It still produces the same amount of fish braid did. Only thing changed was my confidence. 

 

That being said, I throw big game #15 mono almost all my treble hook baits and everything else is 15lb abrazx flouro for moving baits, 20lb abrazx for flipping style Baits.

 

Experiment, try different lines and see what works for you. But I will put in a shameless plug for Abrazx and Big game 😉 

 

 

[CDMTJager]

My 2c FWIW

I have 50+ years fishing experience. Started out with Stren, for the 1980's moved to Trilene XL and XT in the mid 1990's. Tried braid first time in 1995 or 96 used Berkeley fire line because I didn't want to spend WAY over $100 on a rod with titanium nitride eye guides so I could use Spider Line because I was fishing for smallmouth at warm water discharges on lake michigan and every surface was covered in zebra mussels and I got tired of losing 4lb+ small mouth and $6 cranks and tube jig setups to line getting cut by zebra mussels. 

 

About four years ago gave Yo-Zuri copolymer a try on the recommendation of the best steelhead and salmon small stream fisherman I have ever seen or known (he spends at least 60 days a year chasing steelhead and salmon in the creeks of our state, Michigan and Wisconsin and many out in the big lake as well) as the best all around line he ever used based on a combination of cost, invisibility to fish, ability to cast both light (3/16-1/4oz) spinning lures and drift fish tied eggs and skein, much greater knot strength and abrasion resistance than straight mono (Trilene XT was our goto line for salmon/steelhead creek fishing). I did as he advised and was are now a huge fan of

Yo-Zuri copolymer and it has replaced all of my mono applications.   

 

I now use 6, 8 or10 lb Yo-Zuri copolymer for all my spinning needs on 9 or 10 spincasting set ups from my sons and I and are extremely happy with it. I use either a Polymer or trilene knot. After four years of use I feel comfortable strongly recommending it to others. 

 

Bare in mind I now must outfit my two sons with both spinning and casting setups.

 

I have 10lb Power Pro HI-Vis on two spinning setups for Wacky worm fishing with a 10lb Yo-Zuri Copoly leader

And one spinning set up with 15lb Power pro for casting poppers because I use a 7'3" MH/M rod and are astonished how far I can cast a 3/8oz Rebel PopR with it,

 

For my 8 baitcasting setups for 2023 I used:

Four have 15lb Yo-Zuri Copoly 

Two have 20lb Trilene Big Game 

One has Power Pro 30lb

One has Power Pro 50lb

I plan on taking one of the set ups with Trilene Big Game and filling it with 16lb SPRO Essential Series Gouken Fluorocarbon to be my dedicated Jig rod to learn how to fish jigs in 2024 and to give fluorocarbon a try.

 

Of all the lines you listed as using, if you're on a budget, I can recommend Trilene Big Game as the most affordable great all around baitcasting line it never let me down and is likely THE best buy in a tough abrasion resistant baitcasting line that also (at least in my experience) casted quite well, but I never casted any luer lighter than 3/8oz with it and never used any test other than 20lb. I used it as my dedicated spinner bait, chatter bait and buzzbait setup and crank bait baits from 1/2 oz to 3/4 oz. 

I can not speak to if it will work if used for fishing jigs or soft plastics because I only use Yo-Zuri copoly and spinning gear for soft plastics.

 

The other line you listed was Yo-Zuri copolymer, which is now go to non braided line is now Yo-Zuri copolymer and can not recommend it strongly enough for spinning setups fishing soft plastics, crankbaits and jerkbaits 3/8oz and lighter. Yo-Zuri copoly is also my goto line for when fishing any live bait or drift fishing skein or tied eggs for salmon/steelhead, or fishing ultra light for panfish.

 

For baitcasting line I have had excellent results using 15lb Yo-Zuri copoly, Trilene BG and my Power Pro Spectra Braid, and let me tell you I literally can cast close to 60 yards with a 1/2oz crank bait and 50lb Power Pro. I can not get over how much farther I can cast with Power Pro braid VS anything else.

 

For fishing heavy soft plastics I do not see how you can go wrong with giving Yo-Zuri copolymer a try. I have used it to fish Texas rigged worms 7, 8, and 10" long, 4.25, 4, 3.25 and 3" beaver baits and 6" creature baits with every bit as much success as I did using trilene XL for over 25 years. But if you are confident you're not missing any bass due to them seeing the braided line, then stick with it. But I would at least recommend you try a leader of fluorocarbon or Yo-Zuri a good solid multi outing try to see if braid is costing you any fish because the see it. In my experience with Yo-Zuri copoly you can go one breaking strength under what you're use to using as it's diameter runs a bit big for its advertised breaking strength.   

 

 

My experience with Power Pro Spectra braid has been excellent and it is the only braid I use. I use 50lb and 30lb for frog fishing, and 10lb HI-VIS line with a Yo-Zuri leader to help with fishing Wacky worms. I started using 15lb for poppers so I could cast farther from shore. Although rather pricey initially, I'm on my third season of using it on the same spinning and casting setups and it's still performing like new so it is somewhat cost efficient for long term use. Because I fish lakes that have a minimum 3-5' visibility under normal conditions and rivers that have more than 5' visibility I do not use braid for soft plastics and as I am giving jigs a try this year I will not use braid for them either so I have no experience using braid with soft plastics or jigs I can offer you. I can tell you braid has worked excellent with frogs, and 15lb braid worked excellent with surface poppers. Although I have used it to fish lighter cranks, spinner baits and chatter baits all under 3/8oz so I could get significantly longer casts from shore VS non-braided lines, I have watched more than a few pro's caution against using braid for cranks, spinner baits and chatter baits as the zero stretch of braid in their opinions/experience tends to make fish miss lures they only make half hearted grabs at, they would have likely have gotten hooked if you were using non-braided line. I have no idea if true as I've only been using braid for hard sided baits for a few years not enough time to see if that is true or not.

 

I would advise you use the lines you have on hand that match up with the ones most highly recommend by those who responded to your post and combined with your own experiences make a well informed decision. 

 

FWIW if tomorrow I could only use ONE fishing line the rest of my fishing years I would choose

Yo-Zuri copolymer. Why?

Because in June of last year while my boys were spending my money at Cedar Point AP I went fishing at a huge public access marina with three boat lunches and over 50 slips in pursuit of legendary lake Erie smallmouth. I started fishing at 9:30 using live soft-shell crayfish. I did within 10 minutes catch two back to back 3lb+ smallies, then from about 9:45am till 7:30pm I got 45 sheepshead on and 37 in. Best guess is they averaged over 4lbs, many over 6lbs with two that I measured over 28" and I was using 8lb Yo-Zuri copolymer and never had my line or knot brake a single time. 

 

I forgot to add I can offer no RECENT first hand experience using 100% fluorocarbon line as this year I will be giving it a second try this time using 14lb SPRO Essential Series Gouken Fluorocarbon for use with fishing jigs for the first time ever this year. I did give P-Lines 100% fluorocarbon (10 or 12lb test) a try about 6-7 years ago and on spinning gear creek fishing for steelhead/salmon as EVERYONE was saying fluorocarbon was the most abrasion resistant non-braided line there was, but it gave me way to many problems with rats nests and I abandoned it and returned to my old stand by Trilene XT. I am very interested to see how well my above fluorocarbon of choice perfromes fishing jigs VS my current standby of Yo-Zuri copolymer as I am setting up two baitcasters for jig fishing, one with fluorocarbon one with YZ copoly to see which I like better as I have enjoyed much success using YZ copoly for all my soft plastics.

My only real fishing goal fro for 2024 is to become confident in fishing jigs and then teach my sons what I have learned.

 

 

[thinkingredneck]

I appreciate all of the good information.  I am going to try the yozuri copolymer again.  

[ChrisD46]

On 2/7/2024 at 8:38 PM, DaubsNU1 said:

I've been fishing straight braid on my casting rods for 30+ years...started with IronThread way back in the day (no longer made). Now running 20lb PowerPro green.

 

Used to run mono on my spinning rods...hated it...found this forum, tried straight fluoro and did not like it one bit. Others her suggested braid to leader. 

 

Now I run 10lb bright yellow PowerPro braid to fluoro leader on all my spinning rods. Love it. Alberto knot. 

 

Works well for me. Experiment and find what works best for you. 

 

Good luck, and tight lines! 

Is Power Pro #20 lb. braid really useable on a bait casting reel ? Due to thin diameter of #20 lb. braid -  I would be concerned with line digging into the reel or other issues due to too thin of line diameter on a bait casting reel ?

[Robin]

Depends on what you are throwing. I use 20lb power pro on bait casters with a leader quite a bit

for 3/8 to 1/2 oz jerkbaits. Never really have problems with line dig as long as you keep your casting stroke smooth. I will go down to 8lb on my BFS reels with no problems; but I am generally around 1/8 oz. I find I get noticeable extra distance the lighter I go. Throwing 1/2 oz jigs with trailers generally requires at least 30lb for me or the line dig issue starts to pop up.

[DaubsNU1]

6 hours ago, ChrisD46 said:

Is Power Pro #20 lb. braid really useable on a bait casting reel ? Due to thin diameter of #20 lb. braid -  I would be concerned with line digging into the reel or other issues due to too thin of line diameter on a bait casting reel ?

 

@ChrisD46 I'm running it on old Shimano Curado and Citca bait-casters. Does really well.

[MickD]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:07 PM, thinkingredneck said:

wanted to be clear.

Then what is  your question? 

[Pogues2300]

On 2/7/2024 at 10:07 PM, thinkingredneck said:

I have read a lot and am confused.  I fish very stained and often muddy water in MS.  I have been using straight braid, 50 lb On my baitcaster and 20 lb on my spinning.  I fish from a kayak and only take a couple of rods, though I have several.  Anyway, a kid on the college bass team suggested fluorocarbon.   Other people suggest hybrid or mono.  I bought some 25 lb Maxon chameleon on sale for 5 bucks.  I have some 20 lb big Game, 12 lb yozuri hybrid and 10 lb Segar red label Fluorocarbon.  I have some bright yellow salt mono in 12 and 3o lb.  I usually fish a St Croix MOJO bass  MF, or Lamiglass heavy fast  or Ozark fast with BC and a Tourney special or Fenwick medium or ugly stick spinning.  I fish mainly with worms, spinnerbaits, swimbaits and jigs. I also want to throw some hair jigs this year.  I fish plastic worms a lot. Some frogs.  Suggestions for versatile set up, heavy on plastics and spinnerbaits.  Sorry to be long winded but wanted to be clear.

All you need to know of what you mentioned is this forum loves big game like a cult while I wouldn’t use it to hang a Christmas decoration lol.

[MN Fisher]

14 minutes ago, Pogues2300 said:

All you need to know of what you mentioned is this forum loves big game like a cult while I wouldn’t use it to hang a Christmas decoration lol.

I use it...as backing on my casting reels.

[MontclairDave]

On 2/8/2024 at 7:04 AM, softwateronly said:

Modified Alberto

What exactly is the modification? Been tying Alberto knot for years with no problems but if there’s a way to make it even stronger I’m all in.

[softwateronly]

4 hours ago, MontclairDave said:

What exactly is the modification? Been tying Alberto knot for years with no problems but if there’s a way to make it even stronger I’m all in.

Basically 2 extra times through the loop on the way out, but it looks like I have the wrong name.  Helped me when tying in steel leader because cinching properly is more challenging.  This video is what I remember.  You're probably doing it right already.

 

scott

 

 

[ChrisD46]

Yozuri Hybrid #12 lb. works great as an all - around line on a bait caster ; Yozuri #6 lb. on spinning is also very good  or Yozuri  #8 lb. as a leader with braid main line . Yozuri is a little larger diameter for its stated line size and going from #12 lb. to #15 lb. is a significant jump in line diameter (better for heavy cover and heavier lure set ups) . I don’t go over .010 inch line diameter as a spinning reel main line or else manageability issues occur - Yozuri #6 lb. is .010 inch thus a great mainline right at the line diameter limit for me on a spinning reel . 

[MickD]

12 hours ago, MontclairDave said:

What exactly is the modification?

I have had a few Albertos unravel so when I tie it I leave the braid tag end long enough to tie two overhand knots pulled tightly up against the knot.  Problem solved and doesn't make the knot bigger.  Yes I tie them correctly, but when aggressively snapping small swim baits off the bottom, some came unraveled.  

[Glenn]

Don't mess with leaders. Instead, select the proper line for the fishing techniques and conditions. Here's how.

 

 

 

 

[WRB]

^^^^^this^^^^^

Tom

[Bankc]

Honestly, unless you run into a reason to switch lines, whatever you have is probably what you'll like best.  That's my take.  Just string something up and if it doesn't work, you'll know better for next time.  Don't swap just because someone told you to.  Swap because you have a reason.  

[WRB]

Using 25 to 30 lb mono or FC is too large diameter for smaller size bait casting reels IMO. Line diameter over .018D increases the memory causing coiling resulting in poor casting performance,