Bigger bass displaced?

[Functional]

So this is the second trip now on a particular lake where all my typical spots that yielded 2.5-4lb bass regularly now only produce dinks in numbers. It used to be a mix of LMB and bigger spots but now almost entirely young spots. These spots were established by producing over multiple seasons so its not a matter of "hitting that spot one lucky time". 

 

What could be the cause for bigger bass being displaced in ALL of my spots miles apart all of a sudden one season?  DNR has put a no minimum length to keep spots to prevent the overrun of lmb but I can't imagine that happening suddenly one season. Even If that is the case, then where have the larger spots gone? Tried making some big runs yesterday to areas that used to produce small bass and got zip. 

 

Some samples. (I get one is a lmb but that's the exception lately) 

 

[bigbassin']

We’re the spots introduced in the last couple of years or have they always been there? How big of a lake?

 

Speaking to Georgia, the state has had an issue where basically any lake that has them has little in terms of largemouth, and the lakes that at one point held smallmouth no longer do. Could just be the spots out producing the largemouth.

 

If it’s a smaller lake, I’d imagine the way spots tend to be more pelagic and chase down bait could result in reduced food supply. If they aren’t been kept to minimize the food chain impact, then there may be too many mouths to feed and not enough food to allow the bass to grow to their full potential.

[scaleface]

Time to sharpen the fillet knife.

[Functional]

@bigbassin' just over 20,000 acres, 34 miles long. Something like over 300 miles of shoreline. Was a river that was damed/flooded in the early 1960s. They first started seeing bass in 2008. 

 

I get spots out compete lmb but even so, where did the larger spots go?  It's like everything over 12" disappeared. Here is a spot from I believe spring last year that was about typical until this year. 

 

 

@scaleface that's the plan on my next trip. 

[WRB]

Your DNR can do a population electro shock study to determine what maybe going on.

My guess it’s a seasonal change location and your honey holes are now nursery area during the summer period.

Try night fishing!

Tom

[Functional]

@WRB the last electro shock study they did was conducted in 2021. I put some of the info in the pic below. They also started stocking F1 strain bass in 2022 as I think a 5 or 7 year program and included some other lakes nearby. 

 

I did do some brief night fishing but only until 10pm. I used a rod not suited for it and my hookup was nearly non existent. Those I did manage to hook vane unbuttoned. User error. Either way I think I'll be back up there next weekend and will hit night hard if I am. 

 

 

 

[WRB]

It looks like the Southern or Alabama Spotted bass where unknown originally and showed after studying with electro shocking. 
What was missing report is prey fish species are in this lake?

For example Southern Coppernose Bluegill and Green Sunfish are known to decimate Spotted Bass spawn. The report notes the Spots are doing better than NLMB. Adding another species complicates the issues.

Tom

[Woody B]

In Lake Wylie (a few hours Southwest of Lake Gaston) I've been struggling to find Largemouth during the Summer.  I attempt to target Largemouth, and during the other seasons I manage to catch mostly Largemouth.  I've not been able to find them consistently this Summer.  I can still find one occasionally, as well as some decent Spots.  When I catch a 10 inch Spot (I call them micro Bass) I crank my outboard and go somewhere else.  I think the Spots, especially the smaller ones school up more than the bigger Spots or Largemouth.  Lake Wylie is full of Spots but still has some decent Largemouth.   I've caught a BUNCH over 5 pounds this year including a years best of 7.91 pounds.  However, I haven't caught a 5 pound plus Largemouth since June.  (I caught a 5 pound Spot in July)   

 

The State stocked Lake Norman (2 lakes upriver from Wylie) with F1's.  All that accomplished was making the Spots fat.  

[looking45]

Chances are the bigger spots haven’t been displaced but are now far outnumbered by the smaller, more aggressive juveniles. The bigger fish don’t get the chance to see your bait,’much less inhale it. This has happened many times over the years here on Lake Shasta. Two of us can catch 50-60 fish and not one of them is over 12”. One way to catch bigger fish is to use bigger baits. Granted, the smaller fish will still play with the 9”-12” worms, 1 ounce jigs and big creature baits but they’ll also leave them alone long enough for the bigger fish to bite. This is not the time for finesse fishing. 

[Functional]

@WRB It has a variety of shad species, herring, bluegill and crayfish. I'll be curious how the F1 stocking effects anything over the next coupe of years. Seems like Woody B has not noticed any marketable improvement on one of the first lakes they tried in around here.

 

Something I noticed pulling my boat Sunday was beds that looks freshly make/fanned. It was in a swimming area and they werent there from the typical spawning period. There were bluegill guarding the beds this time but it got me wondering if there was a recent bass spawn which could explain why there has been a lull in bigger bass? Thoughts? Could also explain why @Woody B is experiencing similar a few hours away. 

 

@looking45 I've been looking for a reason to just toss a big swim/glide bait around for a while now....guess I have my reason!

[Pat Brown]

3 hours ago, Functional said:

@WRB It has a variety of shad species, herring, bluegill and crayfish. I'll be curious how the F1 stocking effects anything over the next coupe of years. Seems like Woody B has not noticed any marketable improvement on one of the first lakes they tried in around here.

 

Something I noticed pulling my boat Sunday was beds that looks freshly make/fanned. It was in a swimming area and they werent there from the typical spawning period. There were bluegill guarding the beds this time but it got me wondering if there was a recent bass spawn which could explain why there has been a lull in bigger bass? Thoughts? Could also explain why @Woody B is experiencing similar a few hours away. 

 

@looking45 I've been looking for a reason to just toss a big swim/glide bait around for a while now....guess I have my reason!

 

 

Everything I have read would indicate that stocking F1 without culling Florida's/Spots/Alabama bass under about 18" isn't gonna do a lot.

 

Basically for the food pyramid to re arrange itself you have to help the big fish along and remove a lot of small fish.  

 

It's what pay to fish trophy ponds do all year long to ensure the success they want to guarantee clients.

[Functional]

@Pat Brown Take a trip to Gaston and well have a nice fish fry then! No limits on quantity or size. 

[Bankc]

On 8/25/2024 at 8:00 AM, bigbassin' said:

We’re the spots introduced in the last couple of years or have they always been there? How big of a lake?

 

Speaking to Georgia, the state has had an issue where basically any lake that has them has little in terms of largemouth, and the lakes that at one point held smallmouth no longer do. Could just be the spots out producing the largemouth.

 

If it’s a smaller lake, I’d imagine the way spots tend to be more pelagic and chase down bait could result in reduced food supply. If they aren’t been kept to minimize the food chain impact, then there may be too many mouths to feed and not enough food to allow the bass to grow to their full potential.

I don't know how this relationship between spots, largemouth, and smallmouth work exactly.  But on the main lake I fish, it at one time had all three in balance, along with a healthy population of white bass and striper-hybrids.  But then the smallmouth population collapsed and pretty much vanished.  Next the largemouth population dropped.  And now the spots and white bass have been reduced.  First their sizes got smaller, and then their numbers decreased.  Even the baitfish don't seem to be that plentiful anymore.

 

In any case, something's changed the balance and it's not a good lake to fish anymore.  And, for whatever reason, the spots and the white bass were the last to go.  Well, actually the catfish were the last.  As the catfish seem to be the only species I can still catch in size and numbers fairly easily.    

[TnRiver46]

I’m good at frying spotted bass if you need help and I’m always hungry 

[Functional]

45 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I’m good at frying spotted bass if you need help and I’m always hungry 

You can come...but you can only use a spinnerbait. 

[TnRiver46]

3 minutes ago, Functional said:

You can come...but you can only use a spinnerbait. 

Ok well then I’ll just stay home 😂 

[WRB]

F1 is 1st generation FLMB + NLMB intergrade. F1’s usually retain the traits of FLMB becoming harder to catch on standard bass tackle the average angler uses. This means catch rates go down significantly out side the spawn cycle.

 Eventually after 5 to 7 years F1’s will show up as DD size bass occasionally during pre spawn period. How this helps the overall fishery is questionable IMO. 
Tom

[Woody B]

I haven't sought out a scientific answer but have "heard" that Spots sometimes spawn twice a year.   I don't know if spawning age females are capable of producing eggs that quick.   I'm 99% sure Largemouth aren't.   

 

I caught this Spot Sunday.  It doesn't "exactly" look like a spawner to me, but it had a bloody tail, as well as light rub marks on it's side that many spawners have.   

[TnRiver46]

@Woody B, there is one sure fire way to tell if a fish is full of eggs, the rest is just semantics 

[Functional]

1 hour ago, TnRiver46 said:

@Woody B, there is one sure fire way to tell if a fish is full of eggs, the rest is just semantics 

You really want this fish fry 🤣

[roadwarrior]

Well, the rule of thumb on the Tennessee River is to kill them all. If they are big

enough to fillet, give them to someone that wants them. The smaller spots are

coyote food.

[Functional]

Welp up there again this weekend and did a little bank and kayak fishing. Got a decent spot and this young girl (12ish?) Came running up and was excited. I learned she's really into fishing and does it all the time. Asked questions about what I was using and called the fish a largemouth. Took the time to explain what a jig (yea you believe I caught a fish on a jig!?) Is and how it's fished. Also told her it was a spot and how to tell the difference. Seemed to soak it all in,  if I see her before I leave tomorrow ill probably give her some stuff. Really seems to be her thing. 

 

Anyway.... after the little dock party I set out on a kayak really not meant to fish for the last 3hrs of light. I found the bigger fish... the lake has grass that comes up about 1-3ft from the surface and it has a lot of holes/caves from the overhangs. Well being so low in the kayak I was able to send a frog deep into those instead of crashing through the top like I typically would do from my boat. The frog wouldn't **** for more than 5 seconds and you'd hear the deep water cavitation sound big big bass make when they suck something up. Felt like I hooked into a log and got him 5 feet from the kayak and he spit it. I at least got a good look at him and I'd be shocked if he was anything less than 5lb. 2 casts later it happened again and lost her right next to the kayak,  likely a 4ish lb bass. I was rotating between the frog and a jig and picked up 2 more spots on the jig. Looks like I should have been skipping my baits into the weeds instead of plopping from the top. 

 

Crazy how a small change in cast can make a big difference.