Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted October 30, 2024 Super User Posted October 30, 2024 Easily the biggest news in the pro derby side of things in a really long time. Nobody saw this coming, and I'm really interested in learning why Bass felt the need to do something so radical. Good for the anglers, but BASS is still riddled with problems that make the product close to unwatchable for about half the events. https://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_123/bass-elites-pay-103024.html 4 Quote
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted October 30, 2024 Super User Posted October 30, 2024 1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: Good for the anglers, but BASS is still riddled with problems that make the product close to unwatchable for about half the events. I’ve never seen a fishing tournament that was unwatchable. It’s fishing! What’s not to like? Any problems they might have are their problem not mine. Same goes for the other trails. 2 Quote
Super User gim Posted October 30, 2024 Super User Posted October 30, 2024 33 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said: I’ve never seen a fishing tournament that was unwatchable. I have. More often in recent years too. 1 Quote
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted October 31, 2024 Author Super User Posted October 31, 2024 The plot thickens......that's a pretty damning example of the financial aspect in terms of a true tier one pro angler in Drew. 1 Quote
Super User WRB Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 Money must come from somewhere. TV , advertisement and sponsor revenue like other pro sports. Tom 3 Quote
Super User Koz Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 What this does is really help the guys not cashing a check every week and who have little or no sponsor deals. I’m sure that relieving that pressure is a huge deal for them. But part of me thinks this also ties into their decision on FFS. A lot of anglers wanted it limited, and that made MLF a little more appealing to some. Having no entry fees might make guys think twice about jumping. 2 Quote
TheBaitMonkey Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 I wish there could be one major tournament circuit so that all the money could flow into one main league where ALL of the best anglers compete. It does give us more to watch the way it is but I wouldn't hate the major tournaments merging similar to PGA and LIV did. That way the anglers could collectively make more; but I like I how this takes out the financial risk for these guys that earned it. I wonder if more Elites will fish the opens now? 1 Quote
NoFroFishing Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 11 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: The plot thickens......that's a pretty damning example of the financial aspect in terms of a true tier one pro angler in Drew. I'm not the most well versed in tournement fishing but his logic seems off.. No one should be having to gamble 50k in hopes of seeing some kind of return from it. Your winnings shouldn't be coming from other anglers going into debt or losing a ton of money. But also if you are placing 25th-40th why should you expect a big payout? idk it seems weird to be upset at this change. 2 Quote
Super User gim Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, NoFroFishing said: But also if you are placing 25th-40th why should you expect a big payout? I agree, but for many years now that's the way its been. You could finish around 30th place in several events and recoup your money back. Now, if you have a bunch of finishes around that position, you pot 850 bucks each time. I'm sure a lot of anglers went into each event with the mindset of this financial backing when their finish was a third of the way down the standings. 10 grand is a lot of money to be given out for someone who finishes in 30th place IMO (out of 100 anglers) but a dramatic change like that might not be welcomed right away. As someone else stated, if the money isn't coming from entry fees, it has to be coming from somewhere else. We don't know exactly who or what that source is. Quote
Global Moderator TnRiver46 Posted October 31, 2024 Global Moderator Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, NoFroFishing said: idk it seems weird to be upset at this change. If I’ve learned anything from bass resource, it’s that most fans of tournament fishing are always upset about something. But they can’t stop following every detail, it’s a vicious cycle 😂 6 2 Quote
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted October 31, 2024 Author Super User Posted October 31, 2024 3 hours ago, NoFroFishing said: I'm not the most well versed in tournement fishing but his logic seems off.. No one should be having to gamble 50k in hopes of seeing some kind of return from it. Your winnings shouldn't be coming from other anglers going into debt or losing a ton of money. But also if you are placing 25th-40th why should you expect a big payout? idk it seems weird to be upset at this change. The gamble is no different today with the change in entry fees as it was before when they paid them. Jacob Fautz does a good break down what it costs each derby in terms of expenses.....fuel, lodging, food, and tackle. It's ridiculously expensive to fish the Elites even without having to pay entry fees. Imagine driving your $120k Skeeter towed by your $80k Toyota all the way to the SLR from Alabama, rent an AirBnB for a week, buy a week's worth of groceries, beat 60% of your competitors, and your reward is driving home to your family with a $500 check. That same dude last year would have taken home a few thousand dollars for his troubles. As somebody said in a comment section on FB......"nobody in a pro sport should be competing for a $500 check". 2 Quote
Super User gim Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 48 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: Imagine driving your $120k Skeeter towed by your $80k Toyota all the way to the SLR from Alabama, rent an AirBnB for a week, buy a week's worth of groceries, beat 60% of your competitors, and your reward is driving home to your family with a $500 check. I used to think that being a professional angler was a dream job when I was younger. I soon realized that it was more like a nightmare. Takes a specific type of person to do this, that's for sure. And I am not that specific type of person in any way, shape, or form. 3 Quote
Pumpkin Lizard Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said: The gamble is no different today with the change in entry fees as it was before when they paid them. Jacob Fautz does a good break down what it costs each derby in terms of expenses.....fuel, lodging, food, and tackle. It's ridiculously expensive to fish the Elites even without having to pay entry fees. Imagine driving your $120k Skeeter towed by your $80k Toyota all the way to the SLR from Alabama, rent an AirBnB for a week, buy a week's worth of groceries, beat 60% of your competitors, and your reward is driving home to your family with a $500 check. That same dude last year would have taken home a few thousand dollars for his troubles. As somebody said in a comment section on FB......"nobody in a pro sport should be competing for a $500 check". There are elite series guys sleeping in their trucks for sure. The turnover rate at that level is insane. I don’t think people realize how hard to mouth some of these guys are. As an observer who wants to see the best competition possible, I would prefer the most professional field possible. What we have now is the equivalent of having your favorite NFL players working at Dick’s so that they can afford to play ball. On the other hand the Elite Series guys have 8-9 events a year. That’s 8-9 weeks. What are they doing the rest of the year? Quote
Super User gim Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 9 minutes ago, Pumpkinseed Lizard said: What are they doing the rest of the year? Good question. I think a lot of them fish in other events like the Opens. Some are guides. Others have gigs with sponsors for products. I'm sure a lot of them also have real jobs like you and me. Or they're married to a lawyer or surgeon lol 2 Quote
Pumpkin Lizard Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 27 minutes ago, gimruis said: Good question. I think a lot of them fish in other events like the Opens. Some are guides. Others have gigs with sponsors for products. I'm sure a lot of them also have real jobs like you and me. Or they're married to a lawyer or surgeon lol Mostly a rhetorical question. Seems like being an Elite Series guy would be kind of marketable within the industry, guiding, social media, seminars, etc. Of course some of these guys have families and real life expenses too. Quote
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 I’m thinking about offering a service to correct this problem for the anglers. You give me $45K at the beginning of the season and I’ll give some back to you throughout the year based on how you perform. Of course they don’t need me for this they could create an Angler’s association to manage their own side pot of prize money. BASS increased the money they contribute to the angler payouts for 2025. That’s a good thing for the anglers. If my math is correct, the average Elite angler will still only make about $41,00 in 2025 including potential classic winnings. Subtract expenses and that’s probably less than $5 an hour. The real impact that I see here is how it will now be obvious how little money is made in these tournaments. When anglers walk across the Classic stage they always announce how many millions they’ve won in their career. They never mention how much they paid in entry fees. It’s like saying you walked out of a casino with a $1000 without mentioning that you walked in with $2000 dollars. People see these anglers that have career earnings in the millions and dream that they too might be able to get rich fishing. I’ve know a few guys that spent an enormous amount of money that they didn’t have chasing this dream. If I was in the business of selling $100K boats on credit to these dreamer, I would not be happy with this change. 1 Quote
Super User TOXIC Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 Here’s another interesting angle. Since we don’t know where the extra $$ is coming from to be able to drop entry fees, whether that be from tv, sponsors, YouTube, social media, etc., and we never will because we can’t see their books or financials, if….and that’s a big IF some of that $$ is coming from sponsors, it might just lead to fewer and smaller sponsorships for individual anglers. It also begs the question that if it was just an internal decision, where did all that $$ go prior to now? I’ve always known professional fishing is not really profitable except for a very few. Most have other jobs. One Elite Series angler I got to know pretty well who stayed with me in Florida and stayed with me with his family here in Virginia, made the majority of his income designing lures for diawa and guiding in Japan during the year. I marshaled for Zell Rowland and he made it perfectly clear he couldn’t fish if he wasn’t a ghost employee of his brother’s construction company. To me, this move by BASS creates a lot more questions. 1 Quote
Super User Tennessee Boy Posted October 31, 2024 Super User Posted October 31, 2024 12 minutes ago, TOXIC said: Since we don’t know where the extra $$ is coming from to be able to drop entry fees, whether that be from tv, sponsors, YouTube, social media, etc., and we never will because we can’t see their books or financials BASS is only contributing an extra $200,000 in 2025. The total is now 4.1 million. 4.1 million divided by 100 anglers is $41,000 (I minored in math in college 😆). The entry fees are gone and the payouts will drop to accommodate that. 2 Quote
brophog Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 5 hours ago, gimruis said: As someone else stated, if the money isn't coming from entry fees, it has to be coming from somewhere else. It isn’t coming from anywhere else. Total payouts are dropping by half or more. This is the reality for not only fishing but most professional sports, outside of those few examples we’re all familiar with. Sports like fishing where it’s traditionally been the industry supporting itself, YouTube and other social media sites are proving to be a much more efficient use of advertising dollars. I understand why this change with the entry fees was made, but I don’t think it’s going to work. Unfortunately, for a sport like bass fishing that lacks meaningful revenue streams, it’s going to be tough financially, regardless. Quote
GReb Posted October 31, 2024 Posted October 31, 2024 The only positive is that a percentage of anglers won’t have to take out personal loans to pay entry fees. That is a big deal especially in todays economy. Even if you were able to secure a loan for entry fees with little issue it could put you in a tough spot if you needed to finance other personal assets Quote
Super User AlabamaSpothunter Posted October 31, 2024 Author Super User Posted October 31, 2024 All that I can gather thus far points that this new change will negatively impact the middle of the road guys the most. Those guys who average an AOY finish between 15th and 50th. The guy who consistently got a top 50 cut almost every event. The guy who might not have ever fished on Championship Sunday/Monday but was always good for a top 40 finish. That guy went from taking home $10k checks for a 37th finish(minus $5k for entry/$500 for fuel/$500 for lodging/$300 for misc.) to a $500 check for making 37th in a 2025 event. That dude went from making close to $4k to actually losing close to $1k after expenses. You basically have to finish 27th or higher to cover your expenses. Honestly the more I think about this, the more I see it's going to be a really bad deal for the anglers. To me one of the biggest problems with the MLF is that the top 10% of the anglers absolutely feast, while the bottom 90% fights for the scraps. I feel like BASS will now have a similar problem, they are making it easier for the top guys to earn more money, meanwhile the middle guys are taking it straight on the chin, and the bottom guys are still losing money just like before. Quote
NoFroFishing Posted November 1, 2024 Posted November 1, 2024 On 10/31/2024 at 3:14 PM, AlabamaSpothunter said: The guy who consistently got a top 50 cut almost every event. The guy who might not have ever fished on Championship Sunday/Monday but was always good for a top 40 finish. Not to sound rude but what is the issue with that? Why are guys who are consistently average being rewarded with fat checks? But also these guys don't need 120k boats and trucks to fish. Idk man it just sounds like guys who were complacent are now mad they have to do more than just actually show up. Everything about professional Bass fishing seems backwards compared to other "major" professional sports 2 Quote
Pumpkin Lizard Posted November 2, 2024 Posted November 2, 2024 On 10/31/2024 at 2:14 PM, AlabamaSpothunter said: All that I can gather thus far points that this new change will negatively impact the middle of the road guys the most. Those guys who average an AOY finish between 15th and 50th. The guy who consistently got a top 50 cut almost every event. The guy who might not have ever fished on Championship Sunday/Monday but was always good for a top 40 finish. That guy went from taking home $10k checks for a 37th finish(minus $5k for entry/$500 for fuel/$500 for lodging/$300 for misc.) to a $500 check for making 37th in a 2025 event. That dude went from making close to $4k to actually losing close to $1k after expenses. You basically have to finish 27th or higher to cover your expenses. Honestly the more I think about this, the more I see it's going to be a really bad deal for the anglers. To me one of the biggest problems with the MLF is that the top 10% of the anglers absolutely feast, while the bottom 90% fights for the scraps. I feel like BASS will now have a similar problem, they are making it easier for the top guys to earn more money, meanwhile the middle guys are taking it straight on the chin, and the bottom guys are still losing money just like before. I think the payout schedule has to be reworked. They are for sure getting some "feedback". But these guys are also perfectly capable of going out and securing funding from sponsors. With some simple business acumen they should be able to cover substantial expenses. They all do have boat wraps and sponsors so there is some kind of money coming in. I remember in one of the Elite Series events on TV they said one particular angler had secured "only $27,000 in sponsor money". I mean if that's on the low end then what are the middle and high end guys taking in. 1 Quote
Susky River Rat Posted November 4, 2024 Posted November 4, 2024 None of these pros have to do this for a living. This will never be the NFL,NHL,MLB NBA sorry, it’s just not that way. The fishing industry will survive whether there is any pro fishing league. Do I think it’s right that these guys have to struggle and hustle to and be pro? No I do not. They deal with the same money issues you and I deal with just are given a platform to complain about it. They might make 250k a year but spend 200k of it. Sadly that’s what happens when you sign up to do this. 1 Quote
Super User fishballer06 Posted November 5, 2024 Super User Posted November 5, 2024 Everyone on here wondering where money comes from should do some research... https://www.bassmaster.com/elite/news/bassmaster-expands-live-coverage-on-fox-fs1-for-2025-season/ Quote
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