Records That Stay

[Mobasser]

53 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

The Gobified Brown Bass up this way are really freaky big and getting bigger.   Only a matter of time before the next 'record' size fish is landed. If by some crazy twist of fate it happen In my Lund, you might see me catch it, might see me weigh it, and if you do, you'll also definitely see me release it.

A-Jay

A-Jay, it's a strange thing. I remember making a post at one point about gobies getting into some rivers in south Missouri. Guys were upset about  this invasive species. But it looks like these gobies have helped grow some big smallmouth up your way. 

[Jigfishn10]

23 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

 

 

In my humble opinion that's just a tough time of year.  It's kind of like the mid to late winter. I think that there are no tougher times to fish, but you can have really incredible days at both times of year. 

 

Smaller bodies of water getting tough when conditions are extreme probably has more to do with what baitfish is doing when water conditions get poor than what bass are doing because bass are just lazy and they just follow around the fridge.

 

Bass are incredibly resilient and incredibly temperature resistant and good at finding water they can comfortably live in, but bait and smaller fish have much stricter limitations upon what they can tolerate.

 

The places I do the best in the winter and in the late summer are small bodies of water with resilient forage.  I personally like crappie and golden shiners for those times of year. 

 

Stay far away from gizzard/threadfin shad fisheries if you like getting bites fishing traditional lures in shallow Waters in the late summer and late winter LOL.  I'm not saying you won't get bites doing that. I'm just saying it gets really really tough.

Love the post!

 

Totally agree that bass are resilient, no doubt, but I do think they get sluggish and don't feed as much in both of the seasons you mentioned. I was merely sticking with the theme of the thread.

 

If underwater current would help usher in nutrients would that not help bait fish feed more and thus make bass more active? What about underwater current, does that not take the thermocline away? I have no idea, I'm not a marine biologist, but it does make me wonder.

 

No worries about staying away from shad, we don't have them up here  

 

Well, kind of a lie, we have menhaden in our ocean  

[A-Jay]

9 minutes ago, Mobasser said:

A-Jay, it's a strange thing. I remember making a post at one point about gobies getting into some rivers in south Missouri. Guys were upset about  this invasive species. But it looks like these gobies have helped grow some big smallmouth up your way. 

In my mind, sort of a perfect storm of events occurred.

First, the 'problematic zebra mussels' ended up cleaning up the water quite a bit.

Then, 'the problematic' goby ended up becoming a readily available, super high protein food source 

for just about every fish in the ecosystem that could choke one down: Including walleye & trout. 

The round goby usually grow three to six inches long but can grow up to ten inches and are egg eaters.  But game fish reproduction seems OK to me at least.   Either way they are apparently pretty easy bottom dwelling prey.  I'm sure the experts, will identify some down sides to their presence, but I'm a fan.  Every lake I fish that has them, the larger game fish I catch all seem 'very healthy'.

Not saying, Just saying.

A-Jay

[softwateronly]

IL has to be one of the most polar opposites in terms of LM and SM records.  The LM at 13.1lbs just seems insurmountable and has stood for 50 years and I think even has a legitimacy question that goes all the way back.  While on the other hand, the SM record was recently caught by a shore angler just steps from downtown chicago at 7.3lbs.  If one really wanted to get in the books, this has to be one of the most attainable in the country.

 

Related and interesting to me...

 

 

scott

[Pat Brown]

1 hour ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Love the post!

 

Totally agree that bass are resilient, no doubt, but I do think they get sluggish and don't feed as much in both of the seasons you mentioned. I was merely sticking with the theme of the thread.

 

If underwater current would help usher in nutrients would that not help bait fish feed more and thus make bass more active? What about underwater current, does that not take the thermocline away? I have no idea, I'm not a marine biologist, but it does make me wonder.

 

No worries about staying away from shad, we don't have them up here  

 

Well, kind of a lie, we have menhaden in our ocean  

 

 

To me it's a inverted thermocline situation in the winter time - much like the summer.  There is warm water beneath the surface that is less affected by fronts and bait lives there mostly.

 

The water on the surface is turbulent and affected by wind current and changes temperatures rapidly with fronts.

 

This pushes baitfish to a few places in the winter time and the presence of bass is usually dictated by a variety of factors.

 

In general - on shallow ponds in the winter time - you'll do best on the sun warmed banks with hard bottom and clearer water, isolated patches of healthy grass in deeper water, steeper banks like the ones around the dam/rip rap and then if there is a main creek ditch that abruptly gets deeper than the flat gradual banks, those can be awesome.

 

The biggest things that seem to affect whether or not bass are gonna be hanging out are 1) avian predators, 2) (on shad fisheries) a shad die off.

 

When the shad die off - the bass can just meander around on the bottom eating chilled sashimi gizzards til it's time to spawn.  Good luck finding them or getting bit when that's happening.

 

If you have significant migrations of large avian predators in the winter (cormorants, loons, eagles, osprey, hawks, herons, egrets, seagulls etc)

 

You think boat pressure scares bass during the hot months?

 

Try 5,000 hungry cormorants that can kill a 6 lber like it's nothing and then do it again and again - and cormorants are like bass - they want a big easy meal - a bass - more than they want a little slippery gizzard shad (when they have a choice).

 

It is for this reason - I believe that lately - being around shad has been worthless on my local lakes.  Bass hide from birds and they usually like to do it in heavy cover around steeper banks (relative) that are protected from cold fronts and have good sunlight (for at least some of the day)

 

I think that the absence of an abnormal abundance of avian predators in the winter time OR a big enough body of water with enough volume of water to generally 'get away' can help - but 1000 or less acre lakes that average 10 ft or so seem to be owned by the birds in open water - especially in the cold months.  They go back up north when it's hot and the bass definitely swim around a lot more when they feel safer.

 

I think in the winter time bass gorge on dead shad at night to avoid predation and hide during the day.

 

Where they hide - structure with lots of cover - NEAR the bait massacre (relative).

 

@Swamp Girl - full pool is when the water level returns to normal on a body of water that has been drained!

 

 

 

[Swamp Girl]

11 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

@Swamp Girl - full pool is when the water level returns to normal on a body of water that has been drained!

 

Got it. Well, it might be at full pool already. It's been raining and snowing steadily and it doesn't take a lot of water to fill a shallow bog. I wish I could do a drive-by, but I can't see the bog from the road. I have to paddle a river to it.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

14 hours ago, Catt said:

 

When was Toledo Bend impounded?

October 3, 1966

 

Toledo Bend lake record is 15.67 lbs, set by Bill Cook of Houston, Texas on February 11, 2023

 

 

Texas ShareLunker's genetic research has proven that regardless of food source if the proper genes are not present in the bass, it will never obtain record status. 

Toledo Bend experiences the new lake effect quite often though given it's dramatic falling and raising pool levels.   

 

In regard to genetics.....no doubt but ask yourself if the world's greatest big Bass genetics would ever produce a record Bass without abundant forage.   Kind of the chicken and the egg deal.  

[Pat Brown]

13 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Toledo Bend experiences the new lake effect quite often though given it's dramatic falling and raising pool levels.   

 

In regard to genetics.....no doubt but ask yourself if the world's greatest big Bass genetics would ever produce a record Bass without abundant forage.   Kind of the chicken and the egg deal.  

 

 

I have said this to my friends SO many times when discussing this.

 

Genetics are fine - but surely every brood produces at least one or two exceptional fish - genetics is messy and it's not like fish produce clones of themselves when they breed. 

 

There are always outliers in every pond or lake and I think it has more to do with mood and personality and luck - and like you said - most importantly, the right forage. 

 

I think that bass that get incredibly large are sort of incredible because they are rare and there's no perfect way to foster their existence. But we know for a fact that removing competition and providing them with the right kinds of food and habitat will produce big ones!

 

I think catching bass of this particular rare and exceptional size and quality is even more incredible because these fish tend to be smarter and pickier and that's why they got this big often times.

 

We get a little bit desensitized to it with social media and sonar and all of the stuff happening these days, but I still am in awe every time I see one of the fish that we are speaking of in this thread. It is truly a miracle for a fish to get to be that size. To say that they 'beat the odds' doesn't even begin to convey how difficult it is for a single bass fry to achieve some of the size and proportions that we see out there every year.

[A-Jay]

13 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

In regard to genetics.....no doubt but ask yourself if the world's greatest big Bass genetics would ever produce a record Bass without abundant forage.   Kind of the chicken and the egg deal.  

 

32 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

Genetics are fine - but surely every brood produces at least one or two exceptional fish - genetics is messy and it's not like fish produce clones of themselves when they breed. 

 

There are always outliers in every pond or lake and I think it has more to do with mood and personality and luck - and like you said - most importantly, the right forage. 

Agreed ~

My default line is;

"Habitat trumps genetic almost every time."

Clearly whatever 'genetics' are needed to grow healthy bass is a great starting point.

But a simple way to support this is just looking back at the Hay Day of the west coast trout eaters.

They didn't start getting crazy big until the trout stocking started.

Might be a somewhat extreme example,

but I'm not sure those fish had special genetic to start with.

Since the stocking has stopped, the giants routinely caught there are few and far between.

Also, insert the Goby.

Caused a brown bass explosion in size up this way.

I won't even talk about a particular lake in Mexico. 

So I'm good with, "Feed Them and They Will Grow".

A-Jay

 

[Dirtyeggroll]

On 1/4/2025 at 5:53 AM, Catt said:

I totally agree with the "new lake effect" but what needs to be understood is that this happens numerous times throughout the life of the body of water.

 

Example

2007 Toledo Bend's lake level was lowered 15' to allow work on the dam. All of the exposed lake bottom had a resurgence of vegetation. When the lake level came back up it brought with it the new lake effect. 

In addition to the habitat of the new lake effect, maybe the role of population has to be considered.

 

This seems especially true in small water bodies that are managed to produce big fish where culling is absolutely imperative to producing big fish.

 

I wonder if there is something about the bass behavior independent of forage availability that changes when more fish are present leading to slower growth rates.

[Catt]

13 hours ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

 

In regard to genetics.....no doubt but ask yourself if the world's greatest big Bass genetics would ever produce a record Bass without abundant forage

 

With an abundance of forage it is possible for a tiny percentage to reach DD status.

 

With proper genetics & a normal forage base a higher percentage of bass will reach DD status.

 

11 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

So I'm good with, "Feed Them and They Will Grow".

 

The bass in Mexico are Florida strain, why?

The bass in California are Florida strain, why?

The bass in Texas are from Florida, California, & Cuba, why?

 

Genetics 

 

If it was as simple as feeding them then why don't we see "native" bass reaching these sizes?

[SC53]

4 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

With an abundance of forage it is possible for a tiny percentage to reach DD status.

 

With proper genetics & a normal forage base a higher percentage of bass will reach DD status.

 

 

The bass in Mexico are Florida strain, why?

The bass in California are Florida strain, why?

The bass in Texas are from Florida, California, & Cuba, why?

 

Genetics 

 

If it was as simple as feeding them then why don't we see "native" bass reaching these sizes?

Agree. There’s a reason they stock with Florida strain bass, genetics!

[Pat Brown]

I think genetics are important - but that's like saying it's important to be tall if you want to be tall.  Basically you need Florida strains.  Beyond that - every bass is different.

 

It's like...short people make tall babies.  Tall people make short babies.  Bass make tons of babies and the ones that have the right personality and size coding and appetite in proportion to the forage base and available habitat (genetics basically) - will surely prosper.

 

It's not like you need some special breeding program - natural selection is a thing and it works purty darn well.

 

That being said - we can speed things up by removing excessive amounts of competition in smaller systems.

 

Even with zero human intervention - the ones that are optimal specimens for the unique circumstances will prosper.

[Catt]

3 minutes ago, Pat Brown said:

It's not like you need some special breeding program - natural selection is a thing and it works purty darn well

 

Compare natural selection to Texas's ShareLunker Program, which has a higher percentage?

[Pat Brown]

1 minute ago, Catt said:

 

Compare natural selection to Texas's ShareLunker Program, which has a higher percentage?

 

Oh we can certainly help speed things up with enough funding and participants 😁😁😁

 

I am just saying - plenty of giant bass happening the old fashioned way out there - go get em! 😎😉👍🏼

[A-Jay]

28 minutes ago, Catt said:

With an abundance of forage it is possible for a tiny percentage to reach DD status.

With proper genetics & a normal forage base a higher percentage of bass will reach DD status.

The bass in Mexico are Florida strain, why?

The bass in California are Florida strain, why?

The bass in Texas are from Florida, California, & Cuba, why?

Genetics 

If it was as simple as feeding them then why don't we see "native" bass reaching these sizes?

OK ~ 

Now how do we get some of the Florida Strain

into the the Smallmouth in Lake Menderchuck ?

I'll do anything !!!!

A-Jay

 

[Swamp Girl]

1 hour ago, Pat Brown said:

We get a little bit desensitized to it with social media and sonar and all of the stuff happening these days, but I still am in awe every time I see one of the fish that we are speaking of in this thread. It is truly a miracle for a fish to get to be that size.

 

You and Alex (@AlabamaSpothunter) are fish of a fin, i.e. you both take nothing for granted to give big bass everything that they deserve, which is all due appreciation. I don't land bass as big as yours and Alex's, but my cool, slick, practiced processing (netting, unhooking, measuring, and photographing) implodes when I catch a six-plus-pounder because they're so rare up here. 

 

17 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

OK ~ 

Now how do we get some of the Florida Strain

into the the Smallmouth in Lake Menderchuck ?

I'll do anything !!!!

A-Jay

 

 

Put some Florida Strain in Lake Menderchuck and you'd hear a lot of chattering bass teeth. 

[A-Jay]

13 minutes ago, Swamp Girl said:

I don't land bass as big as yours and Alex's, but my cool, slick, practiced processing (netting, unhooking, measuring, and photographing) implodes when I catch a six-plus-pounder because they're so rare up here. 

Hey Swamp Slayer, you need to fix that.

(netting, unhooking, measuring, and photographing) the smaller bass,

is just practice for the mutants you're destine to catch.

I hope to learn from all my video & picture evolutions, 

so that I have it down "PAT" for The One Freak of a Freak I might catch.

Good Luck next season.

A-Jay

 

[Swamp Girl]

16 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

have it down "PAT"

 

No doubt, you have it down Pat (as in @Pat Brown-grade calm and cool), but it's hard to be smooth when I'm whoozy, drooling, wheezing, and trembling.  

 

I actually have made progress with four-pounders. I keep my cool when I net them. Same with five-pounders. But the six-pounders and up turn me into this:

 

 

Good luck to you too, my fishing brother!

 

#swampslayerisawickedcoolhandle

 

 

[Jigfishn10]

Sorry posted on the wrong thread

[Catt]

Florida strain bass were introduced into California, Mexico, Texas & many other bodies of water.

 

Tilapia are not native to Mexico & Trout were not native to those Cali lakes.

[Bluebasser86]

Both our state record largemouth and smallmouth have stood for over 15 years now, spotted bass for over 40. Our bass just don't reach really large size very often. Our flathead catfish record has stood for almost 30 years now and will likely never be broken as it's also the standing world record of 123 pounds.