I've had my AP120 for almost two years now and I'm pretty happy with it. I've invested a lot with my trailer setup and modifications, electronics, power management systems, lighting, batteries, mounts, etc. 

 

But the more I fish with it I realize it's lacking in some areas that include overall speed and connectivity with my electronics. The speed component is obvious. You don't get anywhere fast at 3.2 - 3.5 mph with a loaded kayak. Whether it's fishing for fun or fishing in a tournament, it's no fun when you're fishing spots are an hour from the nearest boat ramp.

 

And the more I fish, the more I see the need for waypoint navigation. Not so much for long runs from point to point, but more for following contours along the shoreline so I can stand and fish and not have to keep grabbing the remote to alter course. I know I can program a few waypoints in the remote to navigate, but I first have to run the course and plot it. I'd rather plot it on my Garmin or Humminbird and just go.

 

With that, I'm thinking of selling my AP (sorry, not giving this one away) and starting from scratch. With that, I'm wondering what others would consider their ultimate kayak build.

 

Motors - For speed, the Newports and the Torqeedos are the way to go. But they lack spot lock and course plotting. So that leaves the Minn Kota Terrova and the new Garmin Force. The new Garmin looks great on paper, but $3,500 is a steep price. The Terrova is less than half that price. Since I have both a Garmin and Humminbird units, either could handle course plotting.

 

Kayaks - There's a lot of buzz about the Bonafide XTR 130. But it's also a big, heavy barge of a kayak and speed will be at least as big if not a bigger issue than it is with my AP120. Hobie kayaks seem to cut through the water better, but I'm somewhat frugal and hesitant to spend $5k+ on a kayak. On the flip side, lots of anglers use the Torqeedo or Newports for higher speed and rely on the pedal drive to hold position instead of spot lock. But again, you lose course plotting. The Native Hammer and Titan kayaks are interesting as well, especially with their battery and wiring setups.

 

It takes me forever to pull the trigger on a big purchase, so I won't be doing this anytime soon. I'd like to see more real world feedback on the Garmin in the next few months. But ultimately I'd love to see Garmin or Minn Kota come out with a full featured motor that can propel the right kayak at 5+ mph. Or maybe kayak companies need to pay more attention to hull design to squeeze out more speed. That is probably a monster task without sacrificing stability.

 

And before anyone comments 😁, I still prefer a kayak over a bass boat. I'm not interested in jon boats. Plus, I still love kayak tournaments. Getting a boat means I also have to get a new vehicle powerful enough to tow it. The max towing capacity on my Bronco is only 2,200 pounds and that means I would be limited to a small, aluminum boat.

 

So, if you were putting together the ultimate kayak and motor package, what would it be and why?

 

 

You know Koz I sold my AP120 close to a year in to it due to the very similar concerns. I was deep into it cost wise but fortunately bought the Kayak itself at cost and was able to recoup nearly all my investment.

I went to a Sportspal canoe due to the stability, strength, room, cost, comfort and most importantly the ability to still fish in kayak tournaments, which is allowed in Indiana. It is by far roomier, easily carries more weight can be powered by up to a 3hp motor and weighing only 68 pounds.

The biggest draw back would be spotlock because it would be difficult, not impossible, to mount a large trolling motor on the bow.

 

All that being said it doesn’t answer your question! As far as I know the most up and coming is the new Flux Jet, not proven yet but looks to have decent potential for speed and ability to mount a gps trolling system.

Kaan Orer, an Old Town brand ambassador has been struggling with the same issue and concerns. (most of his conversation is around 26 minute mark in this video.

 
He has several Videos  covering this exact topic and some results of his research.
 

Nick Navarre has some interesting findings on the new Garmin Force Current and MDLR has some good information on the ePDL120 as well. Some sort of combination may work.

 

There are options but at what cost are you willing to pay is the question.

I love my ap120 too much to ever consider another kayak... I've come to terms with it not being fast during travel to and from spots... But the minn kota is perfect for fishing....I've seen friends with bow mounted trolling motors on their pdls, but they still can't get into heavy cover the way I can.. I can always add an NK motor in the future to solve speed issues... 

I'm also planning out a kayak upgrade - currently paddling in tournaments, I'm definitely due. Got a spreadsheet pricing out different options and thinking on what direction I want to go - priced out a rough cost on several kayaks with bow-mount motors as well as stern-mounted motors+pedals. My tournament club only allows one motor so it'd be a one or the other deal. Keeping an eye on this thread to see what people think.

Yeah the AP is a great machine if you don’t mind the challenges that come with it. Although if not for the spot lock ability it would be just another heavy, slow kayak. 
I truly feel a 24 volt 80# spot lock motor would have made it the king of kayaks. I think the most conservative costing setup is a big power trolling motor and pedal drive for positioning.

As shown in several test the speed limiting factor is the hull, not the motor. Catch 22 is a faster hull = less stability.

If I bought a different kayak - my probables include:

 

Bonafide XTR130. With a couple of the 36 volt electric motor options like the Power Pole Move or Garmin Kraken, people are getting 6 mph (which Newport, Torqeedos get) but they also have spot-lock. This would be a no-brainer. Those motors cost more, but absolutely worth it IMO. 
 

Fluxjet. It’s smaller (only 11 feet long, and narrower) and lighter at only 88 pounds even with the motor. The motor is integrated (no more removing and stowing each time to the lake).  The big draw back is it lacks spot/lock. You could add an inexpensive MinnKota on the bow with spot-lock, but you can’t have 2 motors in most tournaments.  But man, with its lack of draft (no prop) you could cover so much water at 7 mph in shallow rivers like the Susky or Rum River! 

3 hours ago, sgjackson said:

I'm also planning out a kayak upgrade - currently paddling in tournaments, I'm definitely due. Got a spreadsheet pricing out different options and thinking on what direction I want to go - priced out a rough cost on several kayaks with bow-mount motors as well as stern-mounted motors+pedals. My tournament club only allows one motor so it'd be a one or the other deal. Keeping an eye on this thread to see what people think.

Wanna buy a fully loaded, tournament ready AP120? 🤣🤣🤣

I am pretty happy with my Old Town Bigwater 132 PDL. The only thing I am missing is spot lock but then I’d have to motorize - I like being the source of power and getting a little cardio personally. I also camp 3-5 weeks a year, and what do I do when the battery dies?

1 hour ago, Boomstick said:

I am pretty happy with my Old Town Bigwater 132 PDL. The only thing I am missing is spot lock but then I’d have to motorize - I like being the source of power and getting a little cardio personally. I also camp 3-5 weeks a year, and what do I do when the battery dies?

I have a power inverter that I can plug into my Bronco. It has cables to charge my batteries, USB ports to power devices, and standard outlets to plug things in. I once used it to plug in my air fryer when the power was out for a day.

every option comes with compromises when you're talking about fishing in a kayak as you've laid out.  So instead of trying to figure out the ultimate choice, figure out the thing you can live without.  That will be the ultimate arbiter of your final decision.

54 minutes ago, casts_by_fly said:

every option comes with compromises when you're talking about fishing in a kayak as you've laid out.  So instead of trying to figure out the ultimate choice, figure out the thing you can live without.  That will be the ultimate arbiter of your final decision.

I want it all!

 

The issue is that I think that Garmin threw down the gauntlet with there Force motor and if sales are good both they and Minn Kota will react and up the game in two years. I also have to believe that kayak manufactures are going to get creative with hull designs to find more speed..

 

With all of that, my initial reaction is to wait and see what happens in the next two years. But if I had to choose now I'm leaning towards the XTR130 with the Terrova. But the Native Hammer looks interesting because I can see where a pedal drive can still come in handy.

 

This is my typical wishy washy, confusion stage as I do more research.

11 hours ago, Kayak Koz said:

I have a power inverter that I can plug into my Bronco. It has cables to charge my batteries, USB ports to power devices, and standard outlets to plug things in. I once used it to plug in my air fryer when the power was out for a day.

I have a Subaru Outback, not sure how big the battery is but to charge anything I have to keep it on accessory mode and that shuts off after 15 or 20 minutes (been doing that to charge my phone all week camping) but I’d probably have to run it to get a significant charge or to keep my battery from dying.

 

I’ve been trying to find a solution to charge my fish finder battery camping, this week I plugged it in at the restroom even though you’re not supposed to do that. I’ll probably buy a cheap generic amazon backup, who cares if they last for fewer charges it’s only getting max 5 a year.

1 hour ago, Kayak Koz said:

I want it all!

 

The issue is that I think that Garmin threw down the gauntlet with there Force motor and if sales are good both they and Minn Kota will react and up the game in two years. I also have to believe that kayak manufactures are going to get creative with hull designs to find more speed..

 

With all of that, my initial reaction is to wait and see what happens in the next two years. But if I had to choose now I'm leaning towards the XTR130 with the Terrova. But the Native Hammer looks interesting because I can see where a pedal drive can still come in handy.

 

This is my typical wishy washy, confusion stage as I do more research.

 

Yeah, i get that.  If it wasn’t for tournaments, then an AP with a second motor is the answer (or a terrova setup plus bixby on your choice of hull).  I considered a small gas motor on the back of my AP for a while.  Someone did it with a 3hp with integrated gas tank and got 8 mph or so.  But man it looked sketchy.

 

You can innovate on the shape all you want, but you’re always going to be trading slimline, sleekness (aka speed) for stability.  Make it wider for stability and pointier for hydrodynamics and you’re making just a bigger boat- so then you need more power to push it.  I’m sure there are tweaks here and there, but I think the current options are pushing up to the practical limits.  

 

The force motor is really cool and full featured for sure, but it costs almost as much on its own as the Autopilot does.  For sure, it is a specialist, prestige product and I don’t think they will sell that many.  it certainly won’t be the mainstream solution.  I think the terrova is going to be really popular.  If they would do an 80lb 24V I think they would sell even more of them (especially if they offered a ‘speed’ prop with it.  24/80 pulls my 1000lb boat at 4 mph with a weedless wedge prop.  I think a slimline kayak would do 5.5 mph with it, maybe a bit more.

 

At the end of the day, 6 mph, spotlock, stable, decent storage, and navigate by FF head unit are all possible.  Just not all in the same package in a kayak even if money is no object (the garmin will get you the closest).

I sold my bass boat a couple of weeks ago and this subject is on my mind as an option going forward.

 

In short, the reason I sold my boat was that my area in SE Pa has too many people for the amount of available boating space.  You can only fish the same areas so many times before it becomes dare, I say, boring.

 

Before boats, I had a Hobie Outback and really enjoyed it and I could go pretty much anywhere, I miss fishing those places and would like to get back to them.  This time around I am looking for something more river and shallow oriented and that has me leaning to the recent announcement at iCast of the fluxjet kayak.  Not terribly pricey when comparing a kayak and adding a garmin or other motor combo.  No props or fins to worry about, that is a huge benefit.  And for me, as geeky as I am, I'm not too concerned about adding electronics.  I'm sure I'll add something but I've been through the multiple graphs and livescope stage, I just want to fish.

1 hour ago, Kayak Koz said:

But if I had to choose now I'm leaning towards the XTR130…

If you haven’t already, you should consider joining the Bonafide XTR130 user group on Facebook. I’ve been monitoring their set ups, speeds, etc. and there’s some really good stuff as it relates to motors, 36v, rigging, etc. 

44 minutes ago, Craig P said:

This time around I am looking for something more river and shallow oriented and that has me leaning to the recent announcement at iCast of the fluxjet kayak.  

But here's the big thing about the FluxJet - they aren't building any right now. Rumor has it that rather than look for investors, they'd like to sell their technology to an existing kayak manufacturer.

1 hour ago, casts_by_fly said:

 

You can innovate on the shape all you want, but you’re always going to be trading slimline, sleekness (aka speed) for stability.  

 

Hydrofoil kayak? 😄

 

For me, going from 3.2-3.5 mph to 5-5.5 mph would make a huge difference. I do think that's just around the corner for a motor with the features that I want.

 

It could be done easily if Bassmaster made a rules change, but TD Steve Owens has indicated that he does not want to do that because kayaks are already essentially plastic boats. So no changes to thrust limitations or allowing multiple motors.

3 minutes ago, Kayak Koz said:

But here's the big thing about the FluxJet - they aren't building any right now. Rumor has it that rather than look for investors, they'd like to sell their technology to an existing kayak manufacturer.

Their website “appears” that they are building them. You can order for a March delivery right now.  I don’t know about the investor or sell thing but if they sell to a reputable company, it should hit the market.  I’m waiting for the YouTube brigade to get their hands on it to learn more. 

 

I won’t decide til spring for me. I have a salmon fishing trip coming up in a few weeks, then there is chasing stripers in NJ and next thing you know, it’s winter….booo! lol 

I want a Stealth Fisha-555. 
 

my Hobie Outback is perfect for my bass stuff.  

This is pretty cool!

I do not know brands. If I was going to set up a kayak though I would run a torpedo with a pedal drive. As much as I love having spot lock and would never fish without it in my boat being mobile is important. I think I could still control a drift with the pedals. I’d try to stay as big as I can with as light as I can just for comfort. 
 

the flux jet thing? Not a good idea in my opinion. If you’re shallow you won’t go fast enough to not use it as a vacuum and suck up everything off the bottom. You will end up ruining the impeller. Weeds? Forget it. Shoot a rock gap? Maybe… Run on chop? Will more than likely be terrible. I’ll always have a jet boat with jets come a LOT of problems. 

1 hour ago, Susky River Rat said:
 

the flux jet thing? Not a good idea in my opinion. If you’re shallow you won’t go fast enough to not use it as a vacuum and suck up everything off the bottom. You will end up ruining the impeller. Weeds? Forget it. Shoot a rock gap? Maybe… Run on chop? Will more than likely be terrible. I’ll always have a jet boat with jets come a LOT of problems. 

I hear you.  I have a jet I love; the problems I’ve learned to tolerate.  But I fish from my kayaks at least 20-30x for every trip with the boat.  The jet can take me a lot of places but could never reach some of the places I fish from the kayak.  And of course there is the whole ramp thing.  If forced, I’d give up the boat before parting with any of my kayaks.

Wilderness Recon 120 you might want to look at. Super stable and I really like the rod storage on it. Not sure how many you bring but I could have 7 comfortably and no rods sticking up, you could probably carry 9 if you were motivated before you put any vertical storage for rods. Also available with or without peddle drive that you can add later if you wanted. Huge bilge access and the rear storage is also a good size

I've got a predator PDL (super fast favorite) and sportsman 120 PDL ( slow and stable - I don't like it). I mostly fish kayak only or electric only water and its always windy here. The other day I saw an XTR with a white Terova on the front, my first thought was "OMG that thing is absolutely enormous"  I don't think I could go get a lure that was snagged in tight standing timber or under bushes. It looked horrendous to paddle if your battery died far from the ramp.

 

Ever watch Chris Mitchell on YouTube? watching him made me think about getting the XTR.  Stand on the casting deck and flip with nothing in the way. 

but definitely open water only. 

 

dream setup? for me I think the sweet spot would be a native hammer with a trolling motor on the front for some but not all days. it's fast, not enormous, light enough I could drag it over logs to get into backwaters, I really like that the pedal drive gets out of your way. seems like you could paddle it easily. For me the pedal drive was the biggest game changer in kayak fishing ever.

 

On 8/24/2025 at 10:14 AM, Susky River Rat said:

the flux jet thing? Not a good idea in my opinion. If you’re shallow you won’t go fast enough to not use it as a vacuum and suck up everything off the bottom. You will end up ruining the impeller. Weeds? Forget it. Shoot a rock gap? Maybe… Run on chop? Will more than likely be terrible. I’ll always have a jet boat with jets come a LOT of problems. 

That was my initial thought on a jet as well. I did watch several videos of the Fluxjet release at iCast and they make very strong claims that the boat operates well in as little as 4 inches of water and has a double-proof system to prevent sucking in any weeds. 
 

Strong claims and the term “game-changer” was used a near record number of times.