so weird.  it looks like it was put together incorrectly.  I heard the term "Acid-wrapped" means the same thing??

 

no reel yet, so it lives in the neoprene sleeve it arrived in.  

 

this is for salt water jigging.    bass guys never use them right?

I’ve seen them for punching and big swim baits. Witch Doctor rods had a couple at one point. 

Spiral, acid wrapped, revolver. Plenty of names.  And plenty in use on bass from custom rod makers. I have a pair downstairs. 

I have a spiral wrapped 6'6" NFC x-ray build

There are many different ways to spiral wrap, to get the line to the bottom of a casting rod, and they all work just fine to reduce torquing in the hand.  This advantage is greater with rods that are heavily stressed, hence it's used often in heavy duty salt rods.

 

There is no reason they cannot be used for bass fishing-I use one pretty often for bass.  My last BFS rod was wrapped spiral even though light duty doesn't develop significant torquing. An advantage is that one can usually use at least one fewer guides with spiral, especially near the tip where one would like to cut the weight of guides.

 

I prefer the Simple Spiral since it is so easy to set up and it works just as well as the more complicated designs. 

I have seen a few in the used rod racks at American Legacy, but I don't have any myself. 

 

I know a couple people who do and they like them for trolling. One uses them for trolling big musky lures and the other for trolling Walleye. 

 

Come to think of it... I seem to remember my nephew saying he has one he uses for fishing sturgeon in the river currents.

 

I think the benefit is the rod doesn't try to torque around in your hands while under heavy loads. I think they like them for trolling because they tend to sit in the rod holders in a better orientation to grab quick when they load up. I could be wrong on that though.

I have 4 or 5 that Mike at DVT built for me.  I like the way they fish, but have to be honest.  I haven't caught anything big enough on them to truly realize a benefit from the non-torquing part.  But that won't keep me from buying more.

@FrnkNsteen - the torque is not in your hand, it's in the rod blank.  

High-stick rod-blank failure with "rings up" is always torsional overload.  

(multiple splits, 45-degree break)

Spiral wrap prevents this by keeping the top-third of the rod in pure bending - rings on bottom lets you use fewer guides and wider spacing in the upper-half of the rod. 

Rings on top needs more guides to spread out the torsional strain and hopefully prevent torsional overload.  

And yes, where spiral wrap is most useful is in trolling and offshore jigging, where you are lifting big loads.  

 

Torquing your grip-hand comes from offset weight of reel drive and a heavy reel handle.  

Interesting. I had assumed the thought was that the torque applied to the rod blank, as you said, was transferring that same torque to your handle, therefore torquing the rod in your grip.

 

Never used one, so only speaking from my thinking, not experience.

 

I figured the eyelets being on the bottom was the intent to help keep some of the load off the rod and put it more on the guides themselves without the line contacting the rod, this needing more guides.

Thing is, @FrnkNsteen - load any "rings-up" casting rod, and you'll see the line Always touches the rod blank in the tip-third.  

11 hours ago, Darth-Baiter said:

bass guys never use them right?

I know @roadwarrior has some.

I have one that was given to me when I had my last custom rod built.  I use it for 3/16 oz finesse jigs.  It is a pain to get in and out of my rod locker tubes.

I have built several spiral wrapped rods for bass fishing.  I find I can use few guide and smaller guides if the rod is spiral wrapped.  I have not noticed a difference beyond looks between a normal and spiral wrapped.  Both work well. 

My Valkyrie is LH spiral wrapped. I like it a lot. No tip wrap with braid.

11 minutes ago, PGA Dropout said:

My Valkyrie is LH spiral wrapped. I like it a lot. No tip wrap with braid.

this was 100% my motivation.  braid wrapping up in the upright facing guides at the end.  yuck

Spiral wrapping has no influence on the size of guides that work or don't work.  Higher guides will produce more torquing when built on top than lower guides will and will induce more twisting of the blank under load.  Spiral wrapping will prevent the blank from twisting under load.   I have had light power casting rods twist a full 180 under load, but have never failed one.  That could, I suppose, depend on the design and material of the blanks.

 

If one wants to see the effect of guides on torquing tape guides onto a blank both on top and spiral, stress it both ways, and see what happens. 

 

With the rods I generally use, bass rods and not boat rods or muskie/catfish rods I don't feel torquing from either design.  

 

how does a spiral wrapped rod relate to the natural spine of a blank?  just wondering.

top and bottom are still in the same phase - so no change there.  

 

I have a long (8-1/2') 7-pc cheap-A/E shore rod that doesn't have enough tip guides for rings up, so I assemble it spiral, and it works great.  I bought it because the butt-guides were spaced right to make this work.  

I added yellow paint dots for spiral alignment. 

 

It has a perfect (wide L3) reel seat for my 4500CT micro-jig reel.  

38 minutes ago, Darth-Baiter said:

 

how does a spiral wrapped rod relate to the natural spine of a blank?  just wondering.

I've never tested it but an expert has written that the spiral wrap will overpower any effect of the spine.  I have built  both on and off spine and I don't feel torquing.  Spiral wrap or regular.  But I'm not working with powerful rods  like muskie or catfish rods, either. 

1 hour ago, Darth-Baiter said:

 

how does a spiral wrapped rod relate to the natural spine of a blank?  just wondering.

 

The same way you would choose to build the rod anyway.  Some like to use the weak side of the spine for guides, some like the strong side, and some like the straightest blank orientation if there is a curve to the blank.  Lots of opinions on that one.  But whether you are spiraling or not on a casting rod of average power there isn't a whole lot of difference.  The torque on the rod is far greater than the difference between the strong and weak spine sides as Mick said.  

Huddleston Swim bait rod is spiral wrapped, one of the few over the counter fresh water rods.

Tom

Bass guys use them.  I like old Megabass rods and Ito has a thing for spiral wrapped guides on long heavy and extra heavy rods so I somehow have 4 Megabass rods with that guide wrap.  The Seven Eleven 711X4, Destroyer 711 Fast Shooting Model, Destroyer Huge Contact Super Destruction and the Valkyrie 76 XXH.  I'm not sure the wrap does a whole lot but it maybe reduces tip wrap with braid when pitching and flipping.

I discovered them 25 years ago on a Bud Earhardt Fishin' Stick.  Every rod I own, all customs (sans my Teramar XX...built different) is acid wrapped.

16 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

Bass guys use them. 

 

 I'm not sure the wrap does a whole lot but it maybe reduces tip wrap with braid when pitching and flipping.

 

Very true. I now have over 50 of them and more in the making. Been making them for more than 30 years.

 

Its not just the torque or twisting issue, but also reducing line flow resistance to reeling in a fish.

 

Some guide designs are straighter than others. And one actually lines up the guides as the rod loads up further straightening line flow under load making reeling in a fish easier.

 

With guides all on top, when rod is under load not only does the rod want to twist, but the line flows down along side the blank between the guides increasing line flow resistance in each location with the total line flow resistance increasing accumulatively because of this:

 

 

A well done spiral wrap can eliminate rod twisting under load and decrease line flow resistance to reeling in a fish by having the guides in transition area line up as rod loads up.

 

Line is ruler straight under 90 degree load. No angular bends in line through transition guides, and line must flow at top center or bottom center of the guides. No side loading should be seen.. This next rod is by the book.

 

 

The standard approach is put guides on a blank in static position and don't take into account rod under load. A new approach is to adjust guides on blank for line flow in the loaded state. Let the unique bend of each rod show where and how the spiral wrapped guides should be placed.

 

The way to check each spiral wrapped rod is to load it up and then look at line flow through all the guides -only when loaded. That is when one will see the differences between different build approaches.

 

Most builders want to get around the blank as soon as line comes out of the reel. This is wrapping the thickest part of the blank where the spiral guide design description came from.

 

If one let's the rod's bend show where to place the transition it changes on each rod due to bend differences.

 

This next one was built by a Texas rod builder. Notice as rod loads up, look at the line flow through transition guides when under load. Angular bends in line flow are obvious. The following rod has now been "fixed" and using 1 or 2 fewer guides as well, and line flow straightened out.

 

 

These 2 rods are examples of what happens when guides are placed on a blank in the static position. Notice as rod loads up, now the angular bends in line flow appear, and on this next rod found in a magazine loaded to only the 45 to 50 degree position, notice the line flow in stripper guide is now already riding up the side of the guide 90 degrees up the right side presenting side loading to that guide and next one out, and angular bend in the line flowing through it? Well done spiral wrapped rods avoid this:

 

When guides are on blank according to its own unique bend, line flow through transition guides should be ruler straighter going into 180's on underside with no side loading and no angular bends and flow at top dead center of guide or bottom center of guide. This is best case scenario when it comes to reeling in a fish seeking reduced line flow resistance through all the guides as much as is physically possible.

 

 

 

 

On an extremely fast MHX blank the transition takes place further out towards the tip of the rod rather than just in front of the reel. Let the rod under load show where guides should be placed.

 

 

This rod below is a St Croix rod redone in spiral wrap. On each rod the guides are placed according to each blank's unique bend characteristics for optimal line management performance. Line flow under load is ruler straight through transition going into 180's. Best case scenario for this type of rod use.

 

 

All spiral wrapped rods can be tested for line flow straightness using standard 90 degree loading and by observing line flow through each guide under this degree of loading. It would be interesting to see photos of other spiral wrapped rods and their line flow when under load only.

 

This is where and when the two approaches to building spiral wrapped rods becomes readily visible.

 

Due to advancing techniques, I have had to go back to rods I did years ago and bring them up to date. My newest rods have reached best case scenario, but my early rods show the old approach and have to be updated.

I’ve seen an experiment that showed how little weight it takes for the lever effect of guides on top to torque a rod. I’m building my own jig to demonstrate this for anyone interested. A lot of the fine tuning we do may not be “felt” all the time but that doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile. Spiral wraps, micro guides, minimalist grips, high modulus blanks, etc.