TLDR: Baitcasters don't seem to be working well for me. Going to go back to spinning only unless you-all can convince me.

 

About me: I fish mostly from my canoe (sitting), sometimes from shore, and 3-4 times a year on a proper fishing boat. I often lean towards finesse techniques, I fish some heavily pressured lakes, but I'm trying to fish rivers more. When I first bought a bait caster 3 years ago, I was fishing a couple times a week. Now it's once every week or two. I have some decent rods and reels (Shimano Intenza, Curado MGL, SLX XT, ect) so this craftsman can't blame his tools.

 

I am much better at casting a casting rod now than I was when I started, but I still get frequent backlashes, and I can't cast as far as comparable spinning rods, and this is frustrating. I will say that using baitcasters has forced me to get better at casting since they are so touchy. I've learned to use less power and better form which carries over to using my spinning tackle too.

 

I know baitcasters are suppose to allow you to cast more accurately, but honestly, with the drag of the spool, I have a harder time getting my lure to land where I want it compared to a spinning reel. Are there other advantages of casting rod/reels that I'm missing here?

 

I know that I'm at a hard point in the learning curve, and it will get better with practice, but I'm not sure I have the time or patience right now to commit to working on it. It does't feel worth it.

 

I'd appreciate any feedback. Thanks.

The big difference between casting and spinning is your casting motion.

Spinning you can whip the rod harder without good casting mechanics.

Bait casting you must let the rod load up on the backwards motion then a smooth forward cast using your wrist more then the arm, it’s not a baseball bat. Keep your thumb pointed towards your ear at the top of the back cast and don’t rotate it as you vast forward.
My suggestion is getting the casting motion down before trying to achieve distance. Adjusting the reel so the lure weight falls with slight resistance when the lure hit the floor the spool stops.

Practice, practice and practice some more.

Tom

29 minutes ago, 07Rapala said:

I am much better at casting a casting rod now than I was when I started, but I still get frequent backlashes, 

I have a harder time getting my lure to land where I want it compared to a spinning reel.

Are there other advantages of casting rod/reels that I'm missing here?

Perhaps think of it like this.

What if your tackle usage & proficiency were REVERSED?

And all you've ever used & known was casting gear.

I'm not sure I could convince you that once you get better at using the spinning gear,

and eliminate the casting problems, that the spinning gear can be a fun and very effective method of fishing.  Especially for bass.

You might be better with the casting gear than when you started a year or so ago,

but it sounds like you still need work. 

I can say that with some confidence because you seem satisfied with the performance of your spinning gear.  Which, in my mind, indicates that you have a useful level of experience with it. 

How long did it take you to attain your current level of effectiveness with your spinning gear ?

Whatever time that was - please know in most cases,

casting gear proficiency comes on a lot slower.

Good Luck

A-Jay 

 

 

32 minutes ago, 07Rapala said:

TLDR: Baitcasters don't seem to be working well for me. Going to go back to spinning only unless you-all can convince me.

I wouldn't even try, in-fact, I'm about to join you.  

 

Where I fish it's breezy much of the time and after years of fighting to use both casting and spinning I'm about to declare the fight not worth waging.  In my coming retirement years I'll be positioning my boat with anchors and throwing my baits with spinning rods to enjoy myself more often on the water.  I'm currently setting up next season's quiver and it'll include 5 spinning rods... 0 casting.  Now, if I get a calm day or two the casting gear will still be available, but I'm not going to fight it anymore.

 

oe

27 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

You might be better with the casting gear than when you started a year or so ago,

but it sounds like you still need work. 

That's for sure. I guess what I'm saying is that my time to fish is limited for the foreseeable future, and I'm feeling like the baitcasting rods/reels aren't worth the effort.

The only thing I feel like I'm missing out on is that super-accurate casting that is definitely going to take some time to practice to learn anyway. And not saying 'never' to bait casting gear, just not now, maybe in a few years when I have more time to fish.

I think going to all spinning will make my life easier (since I can only cast modernly accurately with either rod type anyway).... unless there are other advantages I'm not seeing.

 

No reel is easier to set up for distance than Daiwa SV.  The reliability is built into the brake design.  It covers wrist snap bad habit,  which is brought over from spinning cast. 

Something to keep in mind, any jerk in your cast, either from big lure weight or wrist snap, has to be subtracted from spool energy by start up brake, or it becomes backlash.  Smooth acceleration through cast needs less brake,  and more spool energy goes into distance. 

@07Rapala, I absolutely hated bait-casters when I first tried them back in the early 1990's. 

 

I was a back-lashing FOOL back then! Seemed like every cast was a birds-nest. I was running mono back then. 

 

A buddy recommended I switch over to braid. Soooooo much better. 

 

Note: all of my bait-casters are Shimano Citica's or Curado's, from this era. Old school for sure.

 

 

I kind of got away from casting rods a few years back after switching to "braid to leader" on my spinning gear. I really like those set ups. 

 

This spring I started running a braid-to-fluoro leader on my casting rods. I like it very much.

 

Hang in there. 

 

 

17 minutes ago, 07Rapala said:

I think going to all spinning will make my life easier (since I can only cast modernly accurately with either rod type anyway).... unless there are other advantages I'm not seeing.

I get it. Fishing should be fun.

Perhaps leave your casting gear home for a while and see how it goes. 

As for advantages . . . .

While we can all fish very differently and have equal success most of the time.

I'll tell you that spinning gear excels for me when I am casting into a stiff wind AND

moving the bait with the rod, and picking up the slack with the reel.

So jerkbaits, topwater baits, and some bottom contact baits (in lighter cover).

Most anytime I'm moving the bait with the reel only, IME casting gear has a distinct advantage. 

So any bait with blades, crankbaits, swim jigs and any bottom contact bait in moderate to heavy cover.  If a basshead can pull ALL of that off with spinning gear - well there you go.

Finally, I surf fished off the east coast for years, I used both types of tackle.

 The casts were longer, the baits and the fish were bigger than what happens fishing for SMB today.

I even caught a few.

A-Jay

 

 

What brand/model casting setup do you own, and what weight lures are you throwing with it?

I am going in the opposite direction replacing spinning with BSF casting.

Tom

The fish don't care. Use what your comfortable with. The only major advantage to casting gear is for casting larger baits & fishing heavy cover. If your fishing time is limited & you are mostly a finesse fisherman fishing in mostly open water go with the spinning tackle. You can always reintroduce the casting gear when the occasion calls for it. And for most fishing scenarios spinning gear is more fun because it is usually lighter in weight & you can enjoy the fish fighting more. 

The slowest spinning reel has faster IPT then the fastest casting reel.

BSF is lighter weight than finesse spinning tackle and eliminates line twist.

Tom

Baitcasters do require a commitment and only you can decide if it's worth it.  I still use both every time I go.  I use BFS and it has eliminated finesse baits as one reason to use spinning.  The one remaining thing I like about spinning tackle is how flexible they are in casting.  You have to cast a bait caster correctly or you will pay.  You can back hand,  side hand,  shoot,  flick,  toss, fling or any other creative way you can think of to launch a lure when using a spinning reel.  This is useful when fishing in close and you want to backhand a cast under a dock while standing on one leg leaning out while holding a limb in the other hand to keep from falling in.  I have a friend who fishes more than anyone I know who only uses spinning reels.  There's no shame in going that route if it works for you.

4 hours ago, DogBone_384 said:

What brand/model casting setup do you own, and what weight lures are you throwing with it?

I don't have much for exact lure weights (obviously head weight is only part of the overall lure weight), but here's what I got and what I throw with them:

• Shimano SLX XT 150 reel on Shimano Intenza 7'2", med-heavy, mod-fast rated 1/4 to 3/4oz, w/ 12lbs fluorocarbon: ranges from swimbaits with 1/8oz heads, to 3/8oz swim jigs, spinnerbaits, chatter baits, mid to deep diving crank baits.
• Shimano Curado 70 on Denali Attax Pro, 7'2", medium, fast (more like mod-fast), rated 1/4-5/8oz, w/ 20lbs braid: 1/8-14oz Tx Rigs, 3/16oz jigs and larger, senkos, heavier flukes (5" Caffeine Chad) or jerk baits.
• Shimano SLX 70 Denali Attax, 7'4" "Heavy Multipurpose", fast. 1/2 to 1oz, w/ 40lbs braid: I usually toss TX rigs with 1/4 to 3/8 weights, jigs from 1/4 to 1/2oz.

I really don't think the problem is with the rods. Overall, I really like the Shimano Intenza and Denali Attax Pro, the Intenza seems to throw a wide range of weights really well and the Attax Pro is just whiny enough to work a jerkbait and pin in fish on a jig. The heavy Attax is just OK.

 

I did try to buy the Daiwa Tatula SV that bulldog1935 mentioned, as I think its as the breaking system sounded better for the issues I am having. But my shop wasn't able to get it at the time, so I got the SLX 70 instead.

I think one of my issues is that fishing from a canoe, I'm sitting facing forward in the boat, and I'm at the whims of the wind and current, so I'm not always facing where I want to cast to. When I've practiced casting on dry land, it's been much easier than sitting in the boat, and easier yet than in the boat trying to cast backwards at 45-degrees. 

Also, I live on a chain of natural lakes with a crazy amount of weed growth in the summer. So you either fish the weed line, or my solution for fishing amongst the weeds is to go with lighter lures that will settle on-top of the vegetation, rather than just dig into the foot of filamentous algae on the bottom of the lake during the summer months. So I'll only use at most a 1/4oz bullet weight, on a 10" worm for example. Most of the time I prefer a 8" worm with a 1/8oz or a swimming worm with a 1/16oz nail weight.

Fishing rivers, I find the complexity of fishing in moving water makes dealing with baitcasters even more trouble. I had thought that medium-fast would have been awesome for dropping baits behind rocks and fallen trees, but I still get better accuracy with my spinning rod, plus I'm not working on a birds-nest while floating downstream towards who knows what.

3 hours ago, WRB-2.0 said:

The slowest spinning reel has faster IPT then the fastest casting reel.

BSF is lighter weight than finesse spinning tackle and eliminates line twist.

Tom

OK, point taken on the faster retrieve speed. I don't fish tournaments though, so I think it would be a marginal gain for me. Maybe I'll pick-up a Revo Rocket someday though. I really don't notice much difference between my 6:1 and 8:1 baitcasters. It does make me feel better that I have the right reel for the job though 👍.

 

As for line twists, hasn't been much trouble, sure I have gotten a mess of twisted line ever couple of seasons it comes up (including 2 weeks ago) but not often enough for me to worry about it.

I personally think you’re trying to have everyone on here talk you into what is currently a problem that by your own admission you don’t have time to fix. With that said as someone who also doesn’t have the amount of time I would like to dedicate to fishing I think you’ve already received the best advice available in that the fish could care less and honestly won’t know what gear you presented the lure or bait that made them take a bite in the first place so with your limited time currently sell the casting gear invest in some higher end spinning reels that many on here can suggest and enjoy 😉 I mean absolutely zero disrespect in my post.

I fish from a canoe, once or twice a week. I’ve always been a spinning reel guy and had no reason not to be. A few years ago arthritis in my knuckles was giving me big time issues for the finger/s I use to hold the line preceding a cast when using heavier lures, spinner baits and the like. I borrowed a decent baitcast setup from family and found it cleared the knuckle problem so I can fish again.

 It’s been a few years, I now have 2 baitcast rigs which I use as stated above, for the heavy stuff. I also always carry and use 1 or 2 spinning setups, depending on conditions. Probably about 50/50 split for time using either on a typical trip.

 It’s fairly rare to get a birds nest now, maybe once a day, most coming out easy enough, but not all. Still can’t cast accurately or get all that much distance. I tried measuring a cast at home and consistently max at about 30 yds. If I need to cast accurately I swap to spinning. No way will I ever cast as well with bait cast gear, 50 years practice with spinning trumps 3 years with baitcast.

 I like the baitcasting gear for summer and fall when the weeds take over, I get more torque with them, although an anchor is no match for big lily stems.

 I anchor a lot, mitigating the wind, at least the lighter stuff. Couldn’t fish much without.

 

 I won’t be getting rid of either rig type, I enjoy and have a need for both.

I am not trying to talk anyone out of what they prefer, that is their decision. 
Shimano reels without MGL spools are tricky to adjust between lure weight and aerodynamics ( wind resistance). No reel braking breaking technology can replace your thumb….use it. If you whip the rod forward before the rod loads up the spool speeds up faster the lure is moving result is a backlash.

Tom 

I fish from a kayak and went through what you are describing several years ago.  I know your frustration.  I gave them a fair chance, though I didn’t use them exclusively, and got fairly good with them.  And I caught fish with them.  But I decided a few years ago that me and baitcasters are just not a good fit.  I didn’t enjoy them, and found they offered me nothing that spinning gear can’t provide.  With spinning gear I can throw what I want, as far as I want, and to where I want.  And I catch fish with them.  So I’m back to exclusively spinning gear and loving every minute of it. 

I'd keep what you got but maybe don't buy any more for the time being. I've got an SLX XT A and can throw it without backlashing and I'm also in a kayak although it is a pedal kayak but since we have that one in common I'll focus on that. Are you using less expensive line? I ask because I've currently got Spro Gouken and don't really backlash that much with that setup but I also like / would suggest Sunline Sniper or Seaguar Invizx and all three of those are (not coincidentally) about the same price. One thing I would say is I typically stick to heavier lures with a baitcaster and usually shy away from anything under 1/2oz but the lure density also plays into that a bit so if it's something like a lipless crankbait that's exactly 1/2oz or a little under that's usually not going to be an issue and there are some other 3/8oz lures that I use as well.

 

But back to the line it might be worth trying out some different line and consider one of the ones I mentioned in 14lb or 15lb. Heavier lures will also tend to backlash less. Spool tension is another issue and that can vary depending on the model but generally speaking for that SLX XT I like to set the spool tension so the lure just starts to sink in the water. Brakes are also gonna vary based on the lure and conditions but if you think it might be break issues I'd open it up to make sure it's set to 50% on 50% off and then just set the dial to 75% on or so and then slowly back off until you get to the point where you start to notice the line loosening when you cast.

 

That's my suggestions (for that reel anyway). Overall I think that's a good reel and haven't used that particular rod but I do own some Shimanos and am sure that one is also pretty nice. Baitcasters are a bit like riding a bike though and takes time to get good at and years to master. In my case I've started to prefer them over spinning reels and have gotten more comfortable with lighter lures but that took years and I usually fish several times a week. I still hate skipping with one but that's probably my own fault as I've gotten used to a spinning reel for docks and have not put any effort into getting away from that approach whatsoever...plus I usually like a fluke or senko type lure around docks and prefer that on a spinning reel anyway.

For the most part, there doesn’t look like a balance issue with any of the lure weights and the powers of the rods.  Plenty of the things you listed will have a total bait weight in the 3/8-1/2 oz total weight which is a nice easy weight to cast for most bass rods. I don’t think there is a rod/lure/line issue.

 

The reels should all have basically the same braking system in them.  I forget if they are the 4 or 6 brake shimano centrifugal brakes, but they will be close enough to fish the same once you figure one out.  They are more than serviceable for what you are doing.

 

That all leads me to technique.  If you’re used to throwing a spinning rod with a snap cast then you’re going to backlash a baitcaster often.  Even the best braking systems don’t like it.  Smoothing out your casting stroke and ensuring the rod is loaded properly will minimize or eliminate backlashes.  If you don’t have a good foundation for loading a rod then when you get ‘off platform’ as they’d say for an NFL quarterback (MNF is on right now) you’ll struggle even more.  That is my guess of what is happening here.  It is all fixable.  If you want to try to fix it, I would recommend trying to up size the lure for the rod (or downsize the rod).  You’re throwing a 3/8 swim jig (likely a half ounce total bait) on the MH which should work fine but isn’t for you.  Throw that jig on the medium for a bit.  Get a feel for what really loading up the rod feels like.  Get the timing right so that you’re loading and unloading the rod on the cast.  Every rod has a sweet spot that when you load it to there on a backcast you know it’s just going to fling it out.  Turn on all of the brakes inside the reel and set the dial to 5.  That’s a lot of braking but brakes help if you’re snapping your wrist.  Just turn them up and get a feel for what a good cast feels like.  Don’t worry about distance, just make good casts.  When you’re consistently getting there, then you can turn the brakes down a little until you start to get a little fluffing that goes away.  At that point, one click here or there will start to be the difference and you’re dialed in.  A practice it with overhead, sidearm, back hand, and other positions you’d normally be in.

 

Or, say screw it and just fishing a spinning rod.  If it works for you and does what you need, then don’t worry about it and go fishing.  

It’s all about efficiency.  I want the the best tool to deliver the lure, work the lure and retrieve a lure and any fish I hook on the lure.  

You have an interesting take on the suitability of bc reels for river fishing. 
 

I think bc reels are solid but that said, I think you answered your own question. 
 

my shop teacher said use the right tool for the job. Since you’re mostly doing finesse techniques, the spinning reel is superior for convenience, practicality to cast lighter lures that might be lacking in the aerodynamics department. So unless the bc was intended for those techniques, you will encounter issues if the reel is not a suitable tool for the task at hand. 
 

another thing is mechanics. I can’t empathize this enough, especially if one comes from a spinning background. You can be sloppy when casting spinning gear in ways you cannot when using casting gear. I know, since I came from a spinning background. Lived and learned, lol. 
 

I don’t have bfs gear at this time so if I’m fishing finesse and lighter items, I will use spinning gear because with regard to my personal arsenal, it IS the right tool. 
 

no shame, no loss of pride. Right tool for the job, period, done deal, ‘nuff said. Now if I did have bfs gear, …. 😇😂😜

Brian mentioned one of the things I was going to bring up and that is the fluorocarbon line.  I have limited experience with it, but in my experience the harder ones (same for mono and co-polymer) have a tendency to coil or spring off the spool more than a softer line.

 

I started with a spinning reel in 1954.  Bought my first low profile baitcast reel in March 2009.  Since then I rarely touch a spinning rod.

 

However, that's my preference.  Others have pointed out casting techniques.  When I lived in PA, I was always fishing from shore.  When visiting FL, I was always fishing from a canoe.  Florida required a change in brake settings and my casting stroke (which took some time to fully get used to).  My B-I-L was always picking on me about backlashing the first couple of days.....but I was willing to put up with it because I much prefer a baitcast reel.

 

Sounds to me like you should mainly stick with your spinning gear for the time being.  It's much more fun fishing than removing backlashes (for most people  ).  Is there a nearby place that you could go to in the evenings for casting practice?  Many times I took a short ride to a nearby river just to practice with my baitcast reels.  Catching a fish was an unexpected bonus that seldom happened there.

 

Besides the Daiwa reels with SV spools, I can highly recommend a used T3 reel which has the MagForce 3D braking system and the Exsence DC.  No experience with other DC models.  Both are extremely hard to backlash.

 

Stay away from lighter lures with the baitcasters until you've had time to improve your casting with heavier lures.  You should be able to bomb most 1/2 oz. lures (listed weight) on a MH rod.

 

EDIT: Don't learn with the cast control set too heavy.  Learn with more brakes on.  Ask me how I know.  

Your mistake was to start with a Shimano. There is nothing better on the market to learn baitcasters than a daiwa with a reel that has an SV spool. Reel doesn't matter, just grab one with an SV spool, used or new. Try that, and you will understand how far ahead Daiwa is compared to Shimano offerings for those who are new to baitcasters.