By the way, Paul Roberts has posted a thread in a post above that contains some excellent research from the Ridge Lake study on bass memory. Check page three of that thread for more information.

See BOTH pages 3 and 4. There's a gamut of material on this topic from several aspects.

Now don't run away, this could be a very interesting thread. Keep the various 'experts' in their respective place: as tools -worthwhile background -not an end to discussion.

To try and bring it back around, if ya'll are game, here's my nutshell on the importance of fish learning:

From my experience as well as reading, I believe fish can learn to associate angler activity with danger -as far as certain presentations, but also other aspects of angler activity. They don't think, but can become conditioned maybe a better, safer, word at this point.

I can pretty comfortably say that fish that haven't been fished for are MUCH less affected by conditions, in terms of response to angling. Those with experience in the extreme are MOST vulnerable at certain times, and "timing" becomes a big factor. Lure novelty probably plays a role too, but I have little to say about that. That's tough to tease out by angling. It's in the back of my mind though, and I leave room in my tackle bag for this on certain waters.

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

But, there's another piece I think a lot of people (chasing the bait monkey) miss. Mature fish, are not always easy to find. In most waters they are not randomly distributed throughout a water body. In some waters they may be quite consolidated in just a few locations. Miss those by a few feet and it doesn't matter whether they are hip to you or not. You aren't in the game. This location and position factor you read so much about in angling literature will cure A LOT of ills. But not all. After this, timing, and lure choice/fine-tuning presentation, comes into the picture. If we are not adept at finding those fish, or haven't done the ground-truthing on a given water, we may end having to rely on lucking out on good timing.

Some examples of timing (copied from that other thread).

There are times when bass are most vulnerable to being duped. Capitalize on the conditions, locations, and positions when bass are vulnerable.

Probably the biggest factor is water and sky conditions. Take advantage of low light: time of day, clouds, chop, water color, all help -a lot.

Also, there are patterns/scenarios that will develop you can recognize. They might relate to water conditions, vegetation changes, or preyfish activity. If you pay attention there are LOTS of things you can take advantage of. Keep a log and you'll see the same stuff come around again. Here are a few examples, from the heavily fished ponds I fish, to get you thinking and watching:

1. Ponds usually have certain shorelines that offer a hunting advantage to bass. One I have made good use of is shorelines with a small (2ft) but sharp drop at shore. Bass corral 'gills here and are vulnerable to a lure. Other shorelines are too gradual in slope and 'gills can escape into water too shallow for the bass. Couple this with good lighting conditions and you will make your day right then and there.

2. In some of my ponds filamentous algae grows dense enough by early summer that it breaks free of bottom and gets blown to windward shores. At times, affected by which shoreline it blows onto and sometimes heating of immediate shallows, bluegills and bass will stack up under the algae, often times in only a foot of water.

3. By late May in some of my ponds. damselflies emerge in numbers large enough to draw mature bluegills into the vegetation beds and shoreline cover the damsels emerge from. The larger bass are in there with them. As a long-time fly-fisherman I'm pretty hip to seeing insect emergences and the effects they have on the food chain. A feeding bluegill is a distracted bluegill. Bass know this.

4. I take advantage of the bluegill spawn. There are usually crowds of bass outside 'gill colonies and they are vulnerable to an appropriate well-placed lure. Believe it, even if you can't see them. Find the biggest 'gills, you'll find the biggest bass.

5. I watch for vulnerable individuals. If I see a bass chase prey I get a lure there -immediately. Sometimes I just see a 'gill bolt into the shallows near me. That means there's an aggressive bass very close believe it and move fast. An aggressive bass is as close to a stupid bass as there is (except for maybe a naive aggressive bass). This 20" LM chased a 'gill to my feet. I didn't see the bass but the 'gill was obviously in a panic. I made a short pitch with a jerkbait and ...

6. Get to know individual bass. Some of the largest bass in my ponds have places they habitually go. This changes a bit as things change over the season, but you can get to know fish and be in position to catch them. This "Mama" (that's what I called her) used a particular weedline (edge of a slight bar) and was susceptible to certain lures under low light.

What situations/events/things (what, when, and why's) have you seen and taken advantage of?

From my experience as well as reading, I believe fish can learn to associate angler activity with danger -as far as certain presentations, but also other aspects of angler activity. They don't think, but can become conditioned –maybe a better, safer, word at this point.

Like various boat noise.  I know that I am at an advantage when fishing from the kayak.  I've literally watched fish go about their business in clear water, with a 13' banana floating overhead.  I imagine your kick boat has offered similar experiences.

Sorry...I was editing the above post and don't want it missed:

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution.

But, there's another piece I think a lot of people (chasing the bait monkey) miss. Mature fish, are not always easy to find. In most waters they are not randomly distributed throughout a water body. In some waters they may be quite consolidated in just a few locations. Miss those by a few feet and it doesn't matter whether they are hip to you or not. You aren't in the game. This location and position factor will cure A LOT of ills. But not all. After this, timing, and lure choice/fine-tuning presentation, comes into the picture. If we are not adept at finding those fish, or haven't done the ground-truthing on a given water, we may end having to rely on lucking out on good timing. Chasing the bait monkey is like chasing your own tail -while the fish are simply elsewhere. If you have location and position down on a particular water then experimenting with lure novelty MIGHT make a difference.

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

Sorry...I was editing the above post and don't want it missed:

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution.

But, there's another piece I think a lot of people (chasing the bait monkey) miss. Mature fish, are not always easy to find. In most waters they are not randomly distributed throughout a water body. In some waters they may be quite consolidated in just a few locations. Miss those by a few feet and it doesn't matter whether they are hip to you or not. You aren't in the game. This location and position factor will cure A LOT of ills. But not all. After this, timing, and lure choice/fine-tuning presentation, comes into the picture. If we are not adept at finding those fish, or haven't done the ground-truthing on a given water, we may end having to rely on lucking out on good timing. Chasing the bait monkey is like chasing your own tail -while the fish are simply elsewhere. If you have location and position down on a particular water then experimenting with lure novelty MIGHT make a difference.

Timing and location.....basics of bass fishing!

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I won't say that the BEST time is mid day, but better than 50% of the biggest fish I've caught came midday.

There is also another thing to consider.  Bass have an innate ability to shift from low light vision (rods) to bright light vision (cones) and vice versa faster than many of their prey, supporting their cepuscular (dawn/dusk feeders) reputation.

Could it be, that those bigger bass are feeding mid day, due to the fact that there are less available easy meals due to low light feeding frenzies?

Another piece of the mid day puzzle, especially in regards to tournament play, is that sometimes it takes until 10 am to get things cracking.  Especially on a tough day, or in tough conditions, where your game plan went out the window.

Finally, I think most tournaments end at 3 or so as a convenience to the participants.  I'd really like to see more "iron man" style events, where you fish from dawn to dusk.

Maybe all of that is off the topic rubbish, LOL.

Midday = maximum light penetration.

Activating plankton-->craws & baitfish-->predators.

Maybe?

Or, back on topic, maybe bright light triggers

memory and reminds the fat girls to get up

for lunch!

8-)

Paul,

Your post is very informative and extremely interesting,

and IMO well worth the time and thought it entailed.

Lure novelty probably plays a role too, but I have little to say about that. That's tough to tease out by angling.

I'm just supposing here, but it's possible that your passing off the "unfamiliarity factor"

a tad too lightly. Micropterus is an opportunist first, and the unforeseen offers no pre-conditioning.

My experience at Walden's Shore private pier was not a revelation but a reaffirmation.

I'm not shy about picking brains, and when the data applies to "when" and "where", I'm all ears.

On the other hand, when it comes to "How" and the hottest lures on the lake, that's a different story.

Unbeknown to the picked brain, the lures most touted by anglers and bait shop owners

are moved to the bottom of my agenda.

Someone with your uncommon observation and cognizance is what I need,

I'd wish you'd give this tack a shot, and I'll bet you'll be able to take it one step farther.

Roger

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I won't say that the BEST time is mid day, but better than 50% of the biggest fish I've caught came midday.

There is also another thing to consider. Bass have an innate ability to shift from low light vision (rods) to bright light vision (cones) and vice versa faster than many of their prey, supporting their cepuscular (dawn/dusk feeders) reputation.

Could it be, that those bigger bass are feeding mid day, due to the fact that there are less available easy meals due to low light feeding frenzies?

Another piece of the mid day puzzle, especially in regards to tournament play, is that sometimes it takes until 10 am to get things cracking. Especially on a tough day, or in tough conditions, where your game plan went out the window.

Finally, I think most tournaments end at 3 or so as a convenience to the participants. I'd really like to see more "iron man" style events, where you fish from dawn to dusk.

Maybe all of that is off the topic rubbish, LOL.

RW, that's a really good point. I've had this discussion with other anglers and it became apparent that my view as a small water angler is likely skewed. But it brings up a bunch of questions, some of which J hit on.

If those fish are indeed traveling inshore to snack (some do) you best be offshore from 10-2? Some experienced bigwater anglers have wondered if it's more that by the time they finally find their active fish it's 10am. I would also ask, and I do not know, if you had a choice of conditions at 10-2, would it make any difference whether it's brilliantly sunny or dark and cloudy? Maybe the clouds would make them more vulnerable, or maybe the bright sun would keep them consolidated over deep structure?

If I had to guess it would be that under darker conditions the fish would be more apt to come part way.

So, let me adjust my priorities, and tell me what you think. Assuming these are waters with fishing pressure:

Shallow water:

1.      Location and position

2.      Conditions (sky/water)

3.      Method

4.      Lure choice

Deep Water:

1.      Location and position

2.      Method

3.      Lure choice

4.      Conditions (sky/water)

To keep things on topic: Waters with virtually no fishing pressure I've had access to were SO much easier to catch fish from. The fish were stupid can't think of a better word. OK -naive.

But there's another thing to consider when trying to tease out the real effects of angling pressure fish population size and competition within. Most of the virgin bass waters I've had the chance to fish had very high populations which were in high competition with each other. Yet even they could become jaded to certain presentations, like Raul mentioned in that other thread.

I remember one particular pond I was not allowed to fish, but that made me drool. The guy had heavily managed a small pond with LM, bluegills, and one rock bass. He kept the population in tight check, and the bluegills had mouths the size of quarters! The rock bass lived under the dock and could be brought up for a good look by wiggling your finger at the surface (conditioning). It had to weigh 2lbs! The owner never offered to let me fish it, but he did say that once a summer he let his grandkids fish it with barbless hooks and he said it was like throwing candy to babies, in his words.

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I agree, and if I have the time, I head out around 11 or so and stay through the afternoon.  Many of my biggest fish have been caught midday.

Paul,

Your post is very informative and extremely interesting,

and IMO well worth the time and thought it entailed.

Lure novelty probably plays a role too, but I have little to say about that. That's tough to tease out by angling.

I'm just supposing here, but it's possible that your passing off the "unfamiliarity factor"

a tad too lightly. Micropterus is an opportunist first, and the unforeseen offers no pre-conditioning.

My experience at Walden's Shore private pier was not a revelation but a reaffirmation.

I'm not shy about picking brains, and when the data applies to "when" and "where", I'm all ears.

On the other hand, when it comes to "How" and the hottest lures on the lake, that's a different story.

Unbeknown to the picked brain, the lures most touted by anglers and bait shop owners

are moved to the bottom of my agenda.

Someone with your uncommon observation and cognizance is what I need,

I'd wish you'd give this tack a shot, and I'll bet you'll be able to take it one step farther.

Roger

Roger, I've seen what I thought were jaded fish to particular things. But they were never something that timing couldn't solve. However I have no control over that. And fishing is all about control -just the ticket to drive a Type A personality into obsession lol. I'll keep your suggestion in mind. I have two particular ponds that have seen a lot of a certain X-Rap and a certain jig (and the ubiquitous Senko -not from my doings lately though) the last couple years. I've been thinking I might try experimenting there with "something else" -after I work em over with the GoTos of course. (You know, I find more Senkos and Senko parts along ponds and in the parking lots than I ever buy.)

As to the Where and When stuff, that was what my post with pics was meant to highlight. Would sure love to hear of others' neat scenarios they've found.

Midday = maximum light penetration.

Activating plankton-->craws & baitfish-->predators.

Maybe?

Or, back on topic, maybe bright light triggers

memory and reminds the fat girls to get up

for lunch!

8-)

;D ;D Could be any one of those things I suppose. Speaking of lunch .

Good stuff all. My wheels are turning. That's the way I like it.

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I can relate to both sides of this quandary, but just like Kent,

I too have caught my largest specimens between the hours of 10am and 3pm.

In fact, many of my PBs have fallen withing this timeline, for instance:

largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, northern pike, striped bass and weakfish.

Run-of-the-mill bass seem easiest to catch during transitional periods of lighting,

such as dawn and dusk. Most preyfish possess rod vision, while bass possess

both rod-and-cone vision, which provides color perception and faster adaptation

to light change. This may explain why bass are chiefly diurnal predators,

because the rod vision of baitfish is best adapted to low-light vision after nightfall.

From all appearances, belly-sagging lunkers don't bother waiting for periods of light transition,

but exploit their "cone vision" during midday. Having rod-and-cone vision gives lunker bass

a leg up on most forage fish, which only have rod vision which is advantageous after nightfall. 

Roger

I removed my posts and those related to it. It seems my posts were taken wrong and offended a few folks.  I offered an apology with an explanation, which wasn't accepted.

Reading through those posts, all they did was disrupt an otherwise great discussion, so I removed them in the spirit of keeping it on topic.

Apologies if THAT offends you to, but I don't want to hear it.

Now, back to the discussion at hand....

I guess what it comes down to in a nutshell, IMO, is that educated fish are most vulnerable during periods of obscured lighting, when they have a notable advantage on prey (are actively hunting), and/or are in high competition with each other. These things can override a fish's caution. This timing thing tells me that angler activity IS an issue on hard fished waters.

Paul,

Many of the big bass guys on this forum have

repeatedly stated, "The best fishing is 10:00 -

2:00, midday". What's commonly considered

primetime is low light. Why? Because most

guys fish shallow and beat the bank?

The fish seem more vulnerable simply because

they left the house to get a bite to eat. Those

fishing "at the house" would catch the same

fish throughout the day.

It seems like successful tournament guys have

figured that out. Aren't most weigh-ins around

3:00? If you can only catch fish in low-light, you

better fish fast, early!

8-)

I can relate to both sides of this quandary, but just like Kent,

I too have caught my largest specimens between the hours of 10am and 3pm.

In fact, many of my PBs have fallen withing this timeline, for instance:

largemouth bass, smallmouth bass, northern pike, striped bass and weakfish.

Run-of-the-mill bass seem easiest to catch during transitional periods of lighting,

such as dawn and dusk. Most preyfish possess rod vision, while bass possess

both rod-and-cone vision, which provides color perception and faster adaptation

to light change. This may explain why bass are chiefly diurnal predators,

because the rod vision of baitfish is best adapted to low-light vision after nightfall.

From all appearances, belly-sagging lunkers don't bother waiting for periods of light transition,

but exploit their "cone vision" during midday. Having rod-and-cone vision gives lunker bass

a leg up on most forage fish, which only have rod vision which is advantageous after nightfall.

Roger

That's Doug Hannon's contention -that big bass feed under bright light bc they can. Maybe that's so. I wouldn't know.

There's an oft-cited study looking at bass-bluegill interactions that showed that under bright light, bluegills could see (average sized) bass from a distance, judge their intentions, and steer clear. Below a certain threshold of low light (5lux), the 'gills could not see the bass and the bass had the advantage (supposedly it was claimed they could see better under dim lighting).

Here it is:

Piscivorous Feeding Behavior of Largemouth Bass:

An Experimental Analysis. Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 112:508-518 1983.

"...At high light intensities bluegills can locate modest-sized largemouthb bass( 29 cm total length (~12")) long before the predators can locate them, but at low light intensities the advantage is reversed. ..."

I get to observe average sized bass quite a bit in my shallow ponds and have observed this very thing. Under brilliant blue a bass cruises into a small cove full of 'gills. The 'gills see the bass 20 feet away and stream out of the cove in unison, not willing to get themselves corralled. Under dim skies the bass can get much closer and have the obvious opportunity to corner a 'gill.

Observations like this, and many others, have given me insights (I think) into just what makes for "vulnerable" prey. And makes me think a lot about where, when and how I can make my lures appear vulnerable. In my mind it's not some certain sick wiggle, but physical positioning of that lure in relation to cover/structure and a certain bass.

Anyway, we're going way beyond the original topic, although I see our discussion as a relevant offshoot as to what makes bass vulnerable to lures. Conditioning is one of those. It's importance compared to other factors is my interest here.

I get to observe average sized bass quite a bit in my shallow ponds and have observed this very thing. Under brilliant blue a bass cruises into a small cove full of 'gills. The 'gills see the bass 20 feet away and stream out of the cove in unison, not willing to get themselves corralled.

I bet you've seen blue gills get munched by big bass in the same conditions, distracted by their own feeding.  I've seen it.  I think you pointed out that many of the "misses" on a slow topwater, like a hollow frog in mid day, are actually blue gills getting slammed as they follow, and nip at the legs of the frog bait.  I've since confirmed this.

The damsel fly deal is similar, and I have noticed that buzzing/churning surface baits really excel during a hatch.  Stanley Ribbits excel here, and maybe they're not keying in on a frog bite, but rather a feeding blue gill bite.

Anyway, back to the tough conditions topic, observations like these, and time on your specific waters will bear out similar detail in your observations.

I've got a quarry close to me, filled with 2-4 lb. smallies.  There's largemouth too, but they are difficult to fish from shore.  Outside of the spawn, this is a tough place to fish.  You might be initially tricked into thinking you've found a honey hole, if you stop by and chuck Spooks and Sammys at dusk on evening.  Spend a day there, and you'll see how difficult this place is.  Periodically throughout the day, you'll see huge boils of baitfish, as big as a city lot.  This gets the hairs on neck standing, usually.  If they are close enough, you'll see that they are shad so large, no smallmouth or largemouth north of the Mason-Dixon Line could eat them. 

Very discouraging...but, come dusk you'll be destroying smallies on topwaters.  One thing, and this goes to conditioning, if the bite slows, change color.  The bite will pick up right where left off.  Not too many fish this spot, but the few that do know its really tough to fish it all day long.  Its a timing thing there.

I get to observe average sized bass quite a bit in my shallow ponds and have observed this very thing. Under brilliant blue a bass cruises into a small cove full of 'gills. The 'gills see the bass 20 feet away and stream out of the cove in unison, not willing to get themselves corralled.

I bet you've seen blue gills get munched by big bass in the same conditions, distracted by their own feeding. I've seen it. I think you pointed out that many of the "misses" on a slow topwater, like a hollow frog in mid day, are actually blue gills getting slammed as they follow, and nip at the legs of the frog bait. I've since confirmed this.

The damsel fly deal is similar, and I have noticed that buzzing/churning surface baits really excel during a hatch. Stanley Ribbits excel here, and maybe they're not keying in on a frog bite, but rather a feeding blue gill bite.

Anyway, back to the tough conditions topic, observations like these, and time on your specific waters will bear out similar detail in your observations.

I've got a quarry close to me, filled with 2-4 lb. smallies. There's largemouth too, but they are difficult to fish from shore. Outside of the spawn, this is a tough place to fish. You might be initially tricked into thinking you've found a honey hole, if you stop by and chuck Spooks and Sammys at dusk on evening. Spend a day there, and you'll see how difficult this place is. Periodically throughout the day, you'll see huge boils of baitfish, as big as a city lot. This gets the hairs on neck standing, usually. If they are close enough, you'll see that they are shad so large, no smallmouth or largemouth north of the Mason-Dixon Line could eat them.

Very discouraging...but, come dusk you'll be destroying smallies on topwaters. One thing, and this goes to conditioning, if the bite slows, change color. The bite will pick up right where left off. Not too many fish this spot, but the few that do know its really tough to fish it all day long. Its a timing thing there.

A distracted bluegill is what "vulnerable" means to a bass. But I'm much more likely to see breaks under dim conditions. But this is bluegill water. I don't fish shad-based fisheries. I do know I'm much more likely to catch (dupe) those bass under dim conditions. It appears to me too, that bass vision is WAY more keen under very bright conditions, making every lure (in shallow water) look stupid. Throw some chop on the water and things change.

As to those off-times, Bob Underwood in his book "Lunker" describes sitting on bottom in 18fow and staking out a big school of large bass clustered over a weed covered hump. An accompanying angler casts to them and they pay no heed, simply moving aside if the lure passes through. (Oh yeah, the first problem was getting the lure close to the fish lol, as the "experienced" anglers were embarrassed to find out they weren't anywhere near where they thought they were in the water column.) If an angler without an accompanying diver had fished through they'd have thought there were no bass there. At some point, a bass would 'yawn' (interestingly same behavior seen in bass suffering an O2 deficit in respiration studies), flex it's jaws and then the whole school would do it one by one. After this, the angler filled the boat.

Bass don't, cannot, remain active all the time. Too energetically costly, they need to make up for their efforts in calories. If you've ever done any backcountry back-pack hunting with rationed food, you'll appreciate this. On top of this, ectotherms ("cold-blooded") animals are much less capable energetically than endotherms. They rely even more heavily on efficiency down time.

I got to see this once in stark display at one of my ponds: Brilliant blue and crystal water. Some "fish" was racing around under the water at unbelieveable speed. I was shocked! And it didn't stop. It kept ripping around like a jet for probably 2 minutes before it surfaced. Fish??? Not! A merganser. A high octane, high performance endotherm. And it dove like this repeatedly! Looking at that bird made me realize how little we endotherms really understand ectothermy.

Something has to trigger mature bass to make their move to feed. One good answer is distracted bluegills. What might trigger gills to feed? Low light often. As a fly-fisher I could really rattle on about this, but some other thread maybe. One might think it's high light, but the larger zooplankton that feeds on burgeoning phytoplankton actually migrate downward away from light daily, if there are predators (fish) about. This is a classic scenario called DVM diel vertical migration, and it's a direct response to predation.

Anyway, lots of potential scenarios, but there are underlying reasons that can be understood, I think, as key factors that coincide to bring about those 'timing' episodes we look for or, more likely, stumble in on.

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

It's all about keen observation -we're all doing it, the prey, the fish, and us.

I actually wrote about some observations of bass hunting behavior in a thread called "Brilliant Blue" a few months ago, esp pertaining to the tactic called "habituation". I believe it puts some things we anglers see in our fishing into focus.

Here it is:

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1250965728/8#8

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

Roger, I agree with your "off" the feed theory but  I'll throw this out there. I used to have 2 oscars in a 50gal tank. Once they were done eating the goldfish I'd fed them, they would then proceed to kill every other goldfish in the tank within the next day or so. I imagine it may have started as a territory issue or an agression issue. Either way I do believe because it was in a controlled enviroment the behavior was learned or a "habit" the oscars picked up.

If the survival instinct tells the fish it's hungry and here is an opportunity to binge it's going to feed. They have no ability to reason. It's like an infant child. When the baby is hungry it will cry until he/she is fed. Once the hunger is satisfied the baby stops feeding, AND you CAN'T make it eat any more. I fail to see how a fish that can't think or reason has a memory, whether it be 3 seconds or 3 years.

Last year, there was a very good article in In-Fisherman describing agitation.  Basically, it involved throwing huge, obnoxiously colored crankbaits and spinnerbaits through an area that held inactive bass, and returning in 30 minutes or so, to find the agitation seemed to turn those inactive bass into active biters.

Reminded me of the walleye guys dragging chain link fence sections to stir up critters, baitfish, and hopefully predators.

...or dragging anchors for smallies on Lake O, throwing rocks at stale steelhead (a la Jim Teeny), or multiple casts at isolated cover for LM, or catching the first bass from a school to start a cascade of bites, or....

Here's one I did for stream trout. Wade upstream of a "dead" pool, wade in and turn rocks sending a cloud of silt and critters down into that pool. Go back and run a nymph through. Whap! Whap! Whap! This works for stale steelies too. Throwing rocks was for sighted individuals. All you have to do is move them, come back in 10 minutes and they are biters. But it works for unsighted fish too. You have a run you know there's steelies in, but they're out cold. Wade in and move 'em. Give em 10 minutes and come back. Works for browns too sometimes, but I wait for at least 20 minutes.

KVD talked about targeting areas with high boat traffic, that stir up the vegetation, bottom, and fish. There's also the ploy of hitting boat ramps and catching fish each time a boat launches.

It's not too difficult to imagine what those bass are doing down there -another case of classic conditioning.

Reminds me of another, close to home for you J: Bear CK harbor. Most mornings it was easy to catch 'bows in the estuary, but then it would slow down. I knew where to place a bait where it had the best chance of a passing trout finding it. But, I began to notice that I often caught fish shortly after a boat came or left the launch. I believe it was moving holding fish.

Another: Bob Underwood reported a couple guys who had a cool gig going on canals in Florida. During the day the bass were tough to catch, and most people hung it up. These guys trolled at (relatively) high speed, running their lures just behind where the boat wake crashed into the overhung shoreline. He said the results were amazing.

One thing I haven't done, is throw rocks into slop fields I know there are bass under. I wonder if there are times when it would work. Catt talks about shaking jigs in heavy cover, and being patient about it, so the bass can find that lure. I wonder if pitching few rocks might change the game some. Somedays it might just be worth a shot. Hey...how about dragging a frog bait over slop to stir up the 'gills LOL.

Last one: One day my 3 year old son was with me on a pond. I gave him a stick (pretend fishing rod) to play with. He was thrilled to just tap it on the surface. Before long, bluegills appeared, then more. After about 5 minutes of this a large eye with a dark stripe appeared -LM. Then another. Flipping a worm I caught two.

As noted above, when forage fish are distracted it presents a great 'opportunity' for bass, and they use it.

Mucking up the matter though is another commonplace phenomenon.

When game fish are 'OFF' the feed, most of the rules of the road don't apply.

Anyone who's ever owned a fish tank or aquarium is familiar with this phenomenon.

When the predatory fish are off the feed, the prey fish have a way of sensing that

and will often swim past the game fish within easy striking distance, but without event.

On the contrary, when baitfish sense that predatory fish are in feeding mode,

they just melt out of sight. Nat Geo I believe it was, had a great special depicting this behavior.

Apparently the forage fish kept an eye on the fin position of sharks,

which revealed their level of aggression.

Roger

Roger, I agree with your "off" the feed theory but I'll throw this out there. I used to have 2 oscars in a 50gal tank. Once they were done eating the goldfish I'd fed them, they would then proceed to kill every other goldfish in the tank within the next day or so. I imagine it may have started as a territory issue or an agression issue. Either way I do believe because it was in a controlled enviroment the behavior was learned or a "habit" the oscars picked up.

If the survival instinct tells the fish it's hungry and here is an opportunity to binge it's going to feed. They have no ability to reason. It's like an infant child. When the baby is hungry it will cry until he/she is fed. Once the hunger is satisfied the baby stops feeding, AND you CAN'T make it eat any more. I fail to see how a fish that can't think or reason has a memory, whether it be 3 seconds or 3 years.

Oscars aren't bass, and are known to be highly territorial. I believe it is suggested they be kept alone -not with other fish. I've only kept one bass (a smallmouth) in an aquarium for a short time, but some BR members have them I know, and would guess that after they're sated they do not kill of things in a territorial way like Oscars will. Maybe someone will pipe in on that. I will say it was tough to sate the little smallie I had. He would eat minnow until his belly was packed and had tails sticking out of his mouth lol.

And, despite what we read over and over again, bass are not territorial in this way, most of the time. Pecking order sure, but they are instead most apt to be cooperative. But "territoriality" can develop in relatively rare instances, over time, and an aquarium could be just such a place. Here's one example in a pond situation -a great read:

http://www.in-fisherman.com/content/bass-territorial-imperative

I use to breed Oscars...and no you can't keep other fish with them. I did have a placostumus(sp) for keeping the tank clean, but it was a fairly large one. Still the Oscars tried to keep it cornered, this was in a 100 gal. aquarium with a breeding pair of fish.

Activity level may not have anything to do with memory, but it can over come the sense of fear.

The late Tom Mann has a chapter in his book; Think like a Fish, where he relates to stirring up wed beds to generate bass feeding activity. Tom would run his big engine through weed beds to chop them up and get the baitfish hiding within the weeds exposed so bass would start to feed on them. Clever concept that works very well. Bass became active and over came the fear of noise and boats to take advantage of an easy meal.

WRB