Battery Q's & Suggestions

[AJ Hauser]

Hey fellas,

So fun story... my battery died on the lake the other day, and a very nice fisherman named GREG from Geneseo, IL gave me a tow after he saw me paddling my jon boat. The battery was so dead when I got it ready before the trip - it would not charge, but we were able to bring it back to life by "jumping it" - connecting it to my truck battery, then charging it. I have a few questions...

 

1. The battery is a Farm & Fleet Marine / Deep Cycle / 24MDC / 550A and the trolling motor I use is a Minn Kota Endura C2 (30 lbs of thrust) - I also have a Garmin Striker Vivid 9sv on the same battery. I was able to run the trolling motor a lot for about 3 hours, then when I juiced it, the Garmin died. When I tried to come back to the launch, I noticed that while the trolling motor would spin... it was spinning at about 15%, barely moving me. 

 

I do not know much about batteries, but does this run time seem reasonable, or is the battery compromised? 

 

2. Do you have a smaller battery you could recommend that I could dedicate to the Garmin? I'm hoping there is something for a kayak that is small & light and inexpensive that I can use to separate the two?

 

3. Does anyone know Greg?! I must find him and thank him again  He has a nice Lund and was trying out hos new Spot-Lock unit which is worth more than my entire boat setup...

 

4. Any suggestions on battery maintenance? Again, I'm a noob, made mistakes, just trying to learn.

 

Any help would be appreciated - and for reference, yes I did catch fish, and here is Greg in action! (see pics) 

 

Thanks all - happy Saturday!

-AJ

 

 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Someone will come along who can give the size of the battery that will work better for a Kayak.   

 

I just run my same sonar unit as yours on it's own group of 24 size battery, then bought a bigger group of 27 size battery for the 50lb trolling motor.   Sounds like we got a similar setup.

 

They make battery maintainers if you aren't using this battery daily, weekly, perhaps even monthly.  I have no need as I use mine a bunch.   I just have a charger, and always hook the battery up when I return fishing.   

 

Thankfully in fishing there are lots of "Gregs", many of this forum.   You'll be a "Greg" in the future at some point to someone, and then you'll have repaid Greg's kindness fully  

[MN Fisher]

The battery you indicated is actually a dual-purpose...starting and deep cycle. Rated at 50ah - 3 hours sounds about right. That 30# MinnKota will draw 30amps at speed 5, 20amps at speed 4, 14amps at speed 3...the Striker pulls about 1amp average.

 

So at an average speed of 3 with the sonar running, your pulling 15amps - so 3 hours would be 45ah of that battery drained for power.

 

Ya - sounds about right...add to that, on a wet-cell/AGM the lower the charge, the lower the voltage it gives out, so the prop WOULD spin slower.

 

Suggest getting a bigger battery - I have a 100ah group 27 AGM Deep Cycle (non dual purpose) for the TM alone (Edge 45)...but on the canoe I had with a 30# C2 - I had a 75ah group 27 deep-cycle to run the TM, Sonar and a couple electronics...could be out 3-4 hours and still have half a charge.

 

[MickD]

If you want a separate small battery for the depth finder, check out the batteries used for wheelchairs and similar devices.  I used to take one  to Canada and it ran my old Lowrance LCC all long days, was quite light, didn't take up much space.  And charged back up over night. Check its amp-hour rating against the draw of your depth finder.  Look at Batteries, Bulbs, + or similar stores specializing in batteries.

 

I always keep my big batteries hooked up to charging devices that charge then cut back and maintain.   This will keep them charged without damaging them.  For the small Canada battery I used a simple charger like one would use on a motorcycle battery, if I remember right.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

The battery you indicated is actually a dual-purpose...starting and deep cycle. Rated at 50ah - 3 hours sounds about right. That 30# MinnKota will draw 30amps at speed 5, 20amps at speed 4, 14amps at speed 3...the Striker pulls about 1amp average.

 

So at an average speed of 3 with the sonar running, your pulling 15amps - so 3 hours would be 45ah of that battery drained for power.

 

Ya - sounds about right...add to that, on a wet-cell/AGM the lower the charge, the lower the voltage it gives out, so the prop WOULD spin slower.

 

Suggest getting a bigger battery - I have a 100ah group 27 AGM Deep Cycle (non dual purpose) for the TM alone (Edge 45)...but on the canoe I had with a 30# C2 - I had a 75ah group 27 deep-cycle to run the TM, Sonar and a couple electronics...could be out 3-4 hours and still have half a charge.

 

You are a true Subject Matter Expert in this sub forum, I'd like to see members like yourself get a Icon or Badge in their avatar to denote that.    Helps new members separate replies like mine from yours ?

 

The "SME" badge works great on one of the gun forums I visit.    Nobody gets one unless they are true expert in a field that pertains to the forum. 

[TOXIC]

You have options.  Normally you never want to hook graphs up to your troller battery(s).  You are asking for interference.  Since you are in a Jon, I would suggest separate batteries and as big as you can afford.  Wet cell/AGM/Gel/Lithium are all options depending on your budget.  

[Jig Man]

You left out some pertinent information.  Does the battery stay in the boat or do you have to take it in and out?  Do you use a trailer for the boat?  
 

 

[WRB]

Check your photos of Greg for the boat bow State numbers, you can contact him via the boat registration.

You need to load test your group 24 marine battery, it’s probably OK to use for a outboard cranking battery and house battery for you sonar unit.

A new group 29 to group 31 AGM deep cycle marine trolling motor battery with 50-60 amp circuit breaker should solve you TM day use. Keep the TM battery separate from the sonar.

Tom

[casts_by_fly]

If the batteries stay in the boat, then keep the group 24 for the striker. It’s overkill, but you own it and it would be a good backup if the main battery dies. 
 

for the motor, a group 31 lead acid should get you through a day with no problems. Again, if the batteries stay in the boat then the weight of the 31 doesn’t matter much. 100 Ah is a good target for a lead acid. 
 

always charge your batteries as soon as you get home. Never store them uncharged. Also try to not run down a lead acid below 25% if you can help it and definitely never run it that low and leave it uncharged that low.

 

if you have to lift batteries in and out all the time, then weight considerations come into play.   There are compromises you can make but we’ll need more info. 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

3 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

If the batteries stay in the boat, then keep the group 24 for the striker. It’s overkill, but you own it and it would be a good backup if the main battery dies. 
 

for the motor, a group 31 lead acid should get you through a day with no problems. Again, if the batteries stay in the boat then the weight of the 31 doesn’t matter much. 100 Ah is a good target for a lead acid. 
 

always charge your batteries as soon as you get home. Never store them uncharged. Also try to not run down a lead acid below 25% if you can help it and definitely never run it that low and leave it uncharged that low.

 

if you have to lift batteries in and out all the time, then weight considerations come into play.   There are compromises you can make but we’ll need more info. 

Bingo on it all. The first point is exactly what I ended up doing, and actually appreciate having it that way now.    

 

My main group of 27 for the TM has to come out each time to charge, but I can go a bunch of times before the group of 24 running the 9sv even drops to 12.8v on the screen.   

 

The idea of the backup battery is really big for me on an electric only lake that is border line too big for at least one 50lb TM .  Hoping for a new decked boat with front mounted TM, and then a rear TM for long hauls.   LOL.....I'm one lazy first world fisherman  

[AJ Hauser]

Good morning boys - thank you for all of the great comments! I feel like we're on a path and I've learned a bit. Big thank you. Let's hit a few extra points: 

 

On 10/1/2022 at 9:49 AM, Jig Man said:

You left out some pertinent info... take it in and out... use a trailer for the boat?  
 

 

Yes, the battery and the sonar and the trolling motor - everything - comes out of the boat when I trailer & travel from home to these smaller lakes. If I could find a smaller batter to dedicate to the sonar like @MickD suggested, I think I could attach that to the boat and leave it, which would be great. I have a Power Wheel battery I could rent from my boys... ?

 

On 10/1/2022 at 7:51 AM, MN Fisher said:

So at an average speed of 3 with the sonar running, your pulling 15amps - so 3 hours would be 45ah of that battery drained for power.

 

Thanks - that makes me feel better about keeping the current battery until I can replace it. I believe I actually spoke with you about the Striker a while back  it's a sweet little unit! Would you mind linking to a battery upgrade you would suggest, please?

 

Appreciate all the feedback @AlabamaSpothunter and @WRB - I will pay it forward, and look for Greg's boat registration. Great ideas. 

 

@TOXIC thanks for the feedback - she's a bit unsteady - went to take a leak off the side with the battery and the anchor on it and almost went into the drink the other day ? but if you have battery suggestions (small for the sonar, big for the TM) I'm all ears!

 

@casts_by_fly good idea on the backup battery... would have killed for that after about 20 minutes of rowing into the wind with my small emergency paddle the other day! 

 

Very helpful fellas - thanks so much - any more help would be appreciated! 

 

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

3 hours ago, AJ Hauser said:

Good morning boys - thank you for all of the great comments! I feel like we're on a path and I've learned a bit. Big thank you. Let's hit a few extra points: 

 

Yes, the battery and the sonar and the trolling motor - everything - comes out of the boat when I trailer & travel from home to these smaller lakes. If I could find a smaller batter to dedicate to the sonar like @MickD suggested, I think I could attach that to the boat and leave it, which would be great. I have a Power Wheel battery I could rent from my boys... ?

 

Thanks - that makes me feel better about keeping the current battery until I can replace it. I believe I actually spoke with you about the Striker a while back  it's a sweet little unit! Would you mind linking to a battery upgrade you would suggest, please?

 

Appreciate all the feedback @AlabamaSpothunter and @WRB - I will pay it forward, and look for Greg's boat registration. Great ideas. 

 

@TOXIC thanks for the feedback - she's a bit unsteady - went to take a leak off the side with the battery and the anchor on it and almost went into the drink the other day ? but if you have battery suggestions (small for the sonar, big for the TM) I'm all ears!

 

@casts_by_fly good idea on the backup battery... would have killed for that after about 20 minutes of rowing into the wind with my small emergency paddle the other day! 

 

Very helpful fellas - thanks so much - any more help would be appreciated! 

 

 

 

if you’re trailering, I’d leave the batteries in the boat get a strap and find a way to strap it in so there’s less in and out.  Then you’re not lifting lead batteries twice a day. 
 

if you want to cut weight though, you can get the small 8 Ah lead acid for cheap. They are about 5 lb each. I used one to start on my helix 7 and could get a decent run out of it. If you’re fishing longer than one battery then just get a second for another $22.  Two would give you more than a full day of coverage on your unit. 

 

You’ll still need another battery for the trolling motor as noted above. 
 

i don’t know if it’s in your budget, but lithium battery prices are coming down and are almost inline with quality AGM batteries. An 80 Ah should be plenty for you and should come in around $400-$450.

 

[WRB]

AGM battery is maintenance free, no fluids to spell or leak.

35 AH marine deep cycle AGM will run your electronics all day, will not start the OB. Several brands to look into depending on budget.

Tom

* suggest you buy with a battery box.

 

[AJ Hauser]

20 hours ago, casts_by_fly said:

...you can get the small 8 Ah lead acid for cheap...

 

Fun story: I borrowed a battery from a Power Wheel my son has been fixing up. Ran the sonar unit for 6 hours in the garage last night. Comes in about 11 pounds and I don't know why but this is really funny to me ?

 

POW-POW-POWER WHEELS!! FISH ON! 

 

17 hours ago, WRB said:

AGM battery is maintenance free, no fluids to spell or leak.

 

Hey Tom, thank you - I will look into those! Do you know if there is any maintenance that I need to do with these wet cell batteries in the meantime aside from not letting them deplete 100%? I've heard people talk about topping off... whatever fluid is in there... something? I ain't opening anything up before I get some feedback but I was just curious if you knew anything about this?

 

Thanks guys - talk soon. 

 

[WRB]

Wet cell battery You must keep the plates covered with distilled water.

If the plates are dry they heat and sort out killing that cell.

12V battery has 6 cells 2V each with it’s own cap to refill.

Tom

[AJ Hauser]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

Wet cell battery You must keep the plates covered with distilled water.

 

Perfect - checking now - thank you so much for all your help, Tom!!

 

-AJ

[casts_by_fly]

6 hours ago, AJ Hauser said:

 

Fun story: I borrowed a battery from a Power Wheel my son has been fixing up. Ran the sonar unit for 6 hours in the garage last night. Comes in about 11 pounds and I don't know why but this is really funny to me ?

 

POW-POW-POWER WHEELS!! FISH ON! 

 

 

Hey Tom, thank you - I will look into those! Do you know if there is any maintenance that I need to do with these wet cell batteries in the meantime aside from not letting them deplete 100%? I've heard people talk about topping off... whatever fluid is in there... something? I ain't opening anything up before I get some feedback but I was just curious if you knew anything about this?

 

Thanks guys - talk soon. 

 

 

Other likely small battery options include cordless drills and lawnmowers.  The lithiums for cordless drills are popular because a lot of guys already have them and most fishfinder units can handle voltage inputs up to 20V.  Check your own's specs.  At the higher voltage you need even less amperage and the smaller batteries work.  A 3D printed adapter is enough to get you the connections.

 

If you do open up a lead acid wet cell battery, be very careful with the liquid.  It is sulfuric acid in them which will burn you or eat clothes if you spill it.  

[AJ Hauser]

Hey @casts_by_fly - fantastic - who knew?! Thank you again! 

[MN Fisher]

On 10/2/2022 at 2:14 PM, WRB said:

35 AH marine deep cycle AGM will run your electronics all day, will not start the OB. Several brands to look into depending on budget.

Yep - I've got a 35ah AGM that runs everything BUT the TM. Lights, sonar, pumps, cameras and tablet. A 5 hour outing and it's still at 75% according to my NOCO charger.

 

100ah AGM for the TM and a 550cca wet-cell that does nothing but start the 25hp Evinrude.

[AJ Hauser]

Thanks again @MN Fisher - just looked a few up. The 100ah was more reasonable than I expected. If I had a 100ah battery, and my current setup which we noted draws 15amps on average... are we looking at 100/15 = 6.5 hours, potentially? 

 

Sorry for all the dumb questions, and thank you again for helping me to get a handle on this stuff. 

[Jig Man]

5 minutes ago, AJ Hauser said:

Thanks again @MN Fisher - just looked a few up. The 100ah was more reasonable than I expected. If I had a 100ah battery, and my current setup which we noted draws 15amps on average... are we looking at 100/15 = 6.5 hours, potentially? 

 

Sorry for all the dumb questions, and thank you again for helping me to get a handle on this stuff. 

You need to divide your 6 1/2 by 2.  If you are drawing 15 amps you have 3 1/4 hours of safe run time.  If you draw a lead acid more than 50% you can do irreversible damage to it and shorten its life.

[Johnbt]

Fwiw, because I have one and have the specs handy.

 

STRIKER™ Vivid 9sv  With GT52HW-TM Transducer

POWER INPUT	12 to 20 Vdc
TYPICAL CURRENT DRAW	0.75 A
MAX CURRENT DRAW	1.5 A
POWER CONSUMPTION	9.0

 

[AJ Hauser]

Got it - thanks @Johnbt!

[Bankc]

I'd look into a lithium deep cycle battery.  They're much lighter, and you don't have to worry about draining them below 50%.  Which means you can get by with a battery with half the rated capacity, and get the same run time, or one with the same rated capacity and double the run time.  Sure, they're more expensive.  But, they last about twice as long.  And your kayak will run faster due to both having less weight and having a slightly higher voltage output. 

 

I have a Minn Kota Endura C2 30 as well, and gained 0.5 mph just from the switch from a lead acid to lithium battery.  It literally weighs about 50 lbs. less (65lbs - 12lbs).  There are lots of cheaper brands you can find online that work just as good as the more expensive ones claiming to be made in the U.S. if the price seems too high.  The sad truth is, no one makes the cells or BMS boards in the U.S. so basically all they do is a final assembly here so they can double the price for a sticker with a flag on it.  Of course, you're supporting a handful of domestic jobs and you get actual customer support should something go wrong.  But I can buy two of my batteries and still save money over one of theirs.  

 

The Endura C2 isn't a PWM controlled motor.  So unless you swap out the speed controller on it, it shouldn't interfere with your sonar.  At least not in a way that would require the use of a second battery.  And the sonar unit's power draw is pretty minimal, so you won't gain too much extra run time with a separate battery.  The reason the Sonar died first is because it has a higher minimum voltage.  

[gimruis]

31 minutes ago, Bankc said:

Sure, they're more expensive.  But, they last about twice as long. 

When they come down to double the cost of a standard battery, then I'll think about it.  As of right now, they're about 4 times the cost so I would expect to be getting four times the lifespan.  That is not the case.