Trophy Largemouth on Small Hooks

[stratos4me]

Last fall I was lucky enough to catch a new PB. That was the first opportunity I've had to closely examine a trophy fish. At 11-8 the thing that stood out to me most was the width of the jaw and teeth. I didn't measure it, but it had to be nearly 1/2" thick! That was a frog fish.

 

When dropshotting I reel set and  usually hook fish through the upper lip and around the top jaw, but nose hooks for dropshotting have hook gaps that are much smaller than the jawbone of a trophy fish.

 

Am I messing up by using the nose hook when big fish are possible? How real is the risk of the hook just bouncing off the big jaw bone?

 

Thanks!

[Hook2Jaw]

I've stuck quite a few in the jaw bone with #1 dropshot hooks, and landed most that were in open water.  A spinning reel with a good drag helps, as well as sharp hooks.  I'm not sure on the physics of it, but go stick something sharp into something hard; you're going to have a heck of a time removing it.  It's much easier to pull something sharp out of something soft.

 

That's just small hook finesse fishing, though, and for other techniques such as crankbaits and jerkbaits you end up relying on sharp hooks paired with the correct rod as well as less effective casting reel drag.  I imagine there are posters here who rely on freespooling as well as back reeling.

 

At the end of the day, just use a sharp hook and the correct gear and you'll up your chances of landing fish with whatever hook you're setting.

[Jig Man]

I use small hooks when fishing grubs and Ned.  I’ve caught several over 5# and had no problems.  I set the hook like every fish is going to be a good one with a tough jaw.

[stratos4me]

18 hours ago, Hook2Jaw said:

I've stuck quite a few in the jaw bone with #1 dropshot hooks, and landed most that were in open water.  A spinning reel with a good drag helps, as well as sharp hooks.  I'm not sure on the physics of it, but go stick something sharp into something hard; you're going to have a heck of a time removing it.  It's much easier to pull something sharp out of something soft.

 

That's just small hook finesse fishing, though, and for other techniques such as crankbaits and jerkbaits you end up relying on sharp hooks paired with the correct rod as well as less effective casting reel drag.  I imagine there are posters here who rely on freespooling as well as back reeling.

 

At the end of the day, just use a sharp hook and the correct gear and you'll up your chances of landing fish with whatever hook you're setting.

Thanks. I never considered the possibility of driving a hook directly into the bone.

[RHuff]

The #1 and #2 Berkley Fusion 19 and VMC wacky hooks are excellent. Hooks stick in the roof of the mouth 90% of the time..... 

[gimruis]

14 minutes ago, RHuff said:

VMC wacky hooks are excellent. Hooks stick in the roof of the mouth 90% of the time..... 

I used to use the VMC wacky hooks and gave them up because they weren't getting a hookset in the mouth.  They'd get hooked in the side, throat, gills, etc.

 

I switched to the VMC neko hook and that problem went away.  The longer shaft on these hooks results in being hooked in the roof of the mouth every time, and they do not spit the hook either.

[RHuff]

16 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I used to use the VMC wacky hooks and gave them up because they weren't getting a hookset in the mouth.  They'd get hooked in the side, throat, gills, etc.

 

I switched to the VMC neko hook and that problem went away.  The longer shaft on these hooks results in being hooked in the roof of the mouth every time, and they do not spit the hook either.

 

 That's funny cause the exact opposite was happening for me. I tried the Neko and had too many fish bleeding out. The small circle hook looks right into the top of their mouth for me. 

[Deleted account]

I'm not a fan of VMC hooks, but I don't have trouble hooking big fish (bass and otherwise) with small hooks when the need arises.

[stratos4me]

3 hours ago, RHuff said:

The #1 and #2 Berkley Fusion 19 and VMC wacky hooks are excellent. Hooks stick in the roof of the mouth 90% of the time..... 

How many fish over 10# have you caught on those hooks?

[stratos4me]

3 hours ago, gimruis said:

I used to use the VMC wacky hooks and gave them up because they weren't getting a hookset in the mouth.  They'd get hooked in the side, throat, gills, etc.

 

I switched to the VMC neko hook and that problem went away.  The longer shaft on these hooks results in being hooked in the roof of the mouth every time, and they do not spit the hook either.

Interesting. How many bass over 10# have you landed on those hooks?

[gimruis]

Just now, stratos4me said:

Interesting. How many bass over 10# have you landed on those hooks?

Is this a serious question?  I'm in Minnesota.  Northern Strain bass and smallmouth do not grow that big here.  Not even close either.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

14 minutes ago, stratos4me said:

How many fish over 10# have you caught on those hooks?

 

14 minutes ago, stratos4me said:

How many fish over 10# have you caught on those hooks?

You asked about "trophy" lgm, not 10# fish.   Change the thread title if you don't want people who haven't caught hundreds of DD responding to you. 

 

A trophy Bass is regional based, it's all relative.  

[Deleted account]

3 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Is this a serious question?  I'm in Minnesota.  Northern Strain bass and smallmouth do not grow that big here.  Not even close either.

 

What if a muskie gets hooked outside the lip?...  

I'm sure many big smallies that pull much harder than a large LMB have been caught with tiny hooks and light lines.

 

I landed a 30 lb tarpon on a #4 mosquito hook and 8 lb test a while back...

[stratos4me]

1 minute ago, gimruis said:

Is this a serious question?  I'm in Minnesota.  Northern Strain bass and smallmouth do not grow that big here.  Not even close either.

Of course it's a serious question. My original question doesn't apply to any bass under about 9-10#.  I appreciate the input.

12 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

 

You asked about "trophy" lgm, not 10# fish.   Change the thread title if you don't want people who haven't caught hundreds of DD responding to you. 

 

A trophy Bass is regional based, it's all relative.  

Sorry, I thought my question made it clear that I was specifically referencing my physical inspection of the jaw width of an 11-8 largemouth.

[gimruis]

2 minutes ago, stratos4me said:

My original question doesn't apply to any bass under about 9-10#. 

Your original question and the title of your thread doesn't mention any specific weight, other than the one you personally caught.  A trophy caliber largemouth in the north is about 5 pounds/20 inches.  You might want to consider changing the title of your thread if you only want people responding who have caught at least a 9 pound bass.  That would pretty much exclude everyone in the northern tier.

 

@AlabamaSpothunter already clarified that a "trophy" is regional in his response.  If you're looking for a specific answer, be more specific with your question.

[stratos4me]

15 minutes ago, Deleted account said:

 

What if a muskie gets hooked outside the lip?...  

I'm sure many big smallies that pull much harder than a large LMB have been caught with tiny hooks and light lines.

 

I landed a 30 lb tarpon on a #4 mosquito hook and 8 lb test a while back...

To be clear, I'm not asking a question about hook strength, rod action, other species, or fish hooked anywhere except through the upper lip from the inside out. If the hook gap is narrower than the jaw bone/tooth row so it is unable to get around the bone, will the hook reliably stick into the bone/tooth row or will it just bounce off?

16 minutes ago, gimruis said:

Your original question and the title of your thread doesn't mention any specific weight, other than the one you personally caught.  A trophy caliber largemouth in the north is about 5 pounds/20 inches.  You might want to consider changing the title of your thread if you only want people responding who have caught at least a 9 pound bass.  That would pretty much exclude everyone in the northern tier.

 

@AlabamaSpothunter already clarified that a "trophy" is regional in his response.  If you're looking for a specific answer, be more specific with your question.

Silly me I guess for thinking people would read past the title.

[A-Jay]

8 minutes ago, stratos4me said:

To be clear, I'm not asking a question about hook strength, rod action, other species, or fish hooked anywhere except through the upper lip from the inside out. If the hook gap is narrower than the jaw bone/tooth row so it is unable to get around the bone, will the hook reliably stick into the bone/tooth row or will it just bounce off?

IME, when using 'typical' drop shot gear, I'd say no but

'skin hooking' is a real possibility as well.  

Landing percentage on that deal can be 50/50 at best.

In the end, when I'm targeting trophy fish, my gear will be appropriate for the job.

There's always the rare 'Holy Smokes' hook up when not expecting it.

There's usually a lot of verbal pleading during those.

A-Jay

 

[stratos4me]

1 minute ago, A-Jay said:

IME, when using 'typical' drop shot gear, I'd say no but

'skin hooking' is a real possibility as well.  

Landing percentage on that deal can be 50/50 at best.

In the end, when I'm targeting trophy fish, my gear will be appropriate for the job.

There's always the rare 'Holy Smokes' hook up when not expecting it.

There's usually a lot of verbal pleading during those.

A-Jay

 

Not really the answer I was hoping for, but thank you very much. I just hate going to an EWG on a dropshot. I feel like it kills the action.

[A-Jay]

21 minutes ago, stratos4me said:

Not really the answer I was hoping for, but thank you very much. I just hate going to an EWG on a dropshot. I feel like it kills the action.

I hear ya, and depending on the bait & how it's rigged that's a real possibility.

There are other options for Drop shot hooks besides EWG;

which I do use on occasion.

But some straight shank deals are decent and have a bit more 'bite'.

Note *** regarding the Hooks Pictured - I use SEVERAL DIFFERENT sizes - I offered these to allow for the name, brand, type, and model number identification purposes.  

 So we've ventured into using a little bigger, longer shanked hook.  

 So if you look at the Picture provided, the bottom row - those are all GREAT DROP SHOT OPTIONS and ones I still use a ton; mostly for nose hooking.  

 That whole top row of hooks are what I go to for bigger baits and when I want to 'top hook' a bait; meaning inserting the hook like you would put say a swimbait on a jighead.  Where the hook goes in the front/nose of the bait, is threaded into & down the body of the bait BUT comes out the top.   Still a drop shot, but when a fluke or a caffeine shad is rigged like this, the hook up to land ratio goes way up.  Brownies are generally impaled in the top or the roof of the mouth and they generally Do NOT come off. 

   I definitely use a little 'beefier gear', like M instead of ML and 8-10 lb fluorocarbon leader instead of 4-6 lb.

A-Jay

 

 

 

[casts_by_fly]

The gamakatsu octopus hooks in Ajay's picture are an awesome hook.  While I don't have DD bass experience with them, I used them for years for DD steelhead and salmon in much smaller sizes (steelhead and salmon also have some hard mouths).  A #12 hook with a single egg or egg sac was a common setup.  With 4 lb line and a light 10' rod you're not going to drive them through or around heavy bone but hookups and landing fish were not a problem (at least as far as the hook holding was concerned).  Keep them sharp, replace them when they aren't, and keep a tight line on the fish.

[ATA]

Octopus daiichi hook #4 if you nose hook and #2 for normal hook. My son catched his 10.8lb on #4 robe worm nose hook. And I did catch a lots of 5lb plus with the same hook. Here is replica of my sons two digits..(Actual hook and worm were used to catch).

[Big Hands]

The Gamakatsu Finesse Wide Gap has a pretty wide open throat gap compared to many 'dropshot' hooks. But I have caught some very nice bass (including my PB) on treble hooks on standard size crankbaits and the hooks on those are not especially huge even though there are three barbs on each one. All you need is for one barb to get into some of the soft tissue and then let nature take it's course.

 

I would wager a guess that the majority of hooks bent by a fish come from the hook point not finding soft tissue to bury the barb into. A hook will bend out way easier if it hasn't sunk in very far. A bass can also clamp down so hard that you think you're crossing their eyes only to find out they can just let go or literally spit it out after battling them 3/4 of the way to the boat.

 

There's a lot going on in there when a bass clamps down on a bait and there is at least some degree of random luck involved in how the hook is oriented inside the fish's mouth.

[WRB]

A LMB over 7 lbs lips with teeth is wider the most size1 drop shot hook gap, over 1/2”. You can’t penetrate the bass lip. 

Bass don’t bite using their lips, they engulf the lure into their mouth and close the lips to prevent the prey from escaping, then crunch it between the tongue and mouth roof.

Tom

[Woody B]

7 hours ago, WRB said:

A LMB over 7 lbs lips with teeth is wider the most size1 drop shot hook gap, over 1/2”. You can’t penetrate the bass lip. 

Bass don’t bite using their lips, they engulf the lure into their mouth and close the lips to prevent the prey from escaping, then crunch it between the tongue and mouth roof.

Tom

 

Not the size bass the OP is talking about but I landed a 6lb 14 oz Largemouth last year that's I'm pretty sure wasn't hooked.   A 3 inch bluegill hit my devils horse, the bass grabbed the bluegill.   The bluegill and devils horse came out of it's mouth while I was netting it.  The bass was in the boat in the net,  the bluegill and lure were still dangling in the water.  I couldn't find any evidence of a hook hole in it's mouth.   It might have been pricked, but not penetrated.  It didn't fight like a bass that size.  I think it was just holding on.  IF that's the case, I'm sure that's rare.   

[Team9nine]

Here’s an older graphic of some Berkley testing done showing the amount of force required to penetrate certain areas of a bass’ mouth with a hook.

 

For reference, they described the areas as; (1) the left inside toward the front where there is very thin skin, (2) the right inside farther back in the oral cavity where there is thick gristle covering a hard boney plate, (3) the inside floor of the mouth in the region of the tongue, and (4) the inside roof of the mouth.